Religious tests for Schools?

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

This is an interesting article that reflects a story in Ireland : http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/world/europe/ireland-catholic-baptism-school.html?_r=0

 

Apparently in Ireland schools can still discriminate against children who have not been baptised. Many people would critcize this, but at the same time, does Ireland have the right to defend it's unique Catholic cultural heritage from "non-believers?"

Should Ireland be allowed to do this? Is it right? Your thoughts?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

SS,

I don't want them to do that but it seems like a question for the Irish people to me.

[maarsen]

12 minutes ago, Seaworth'sShipmate said:

This is an interesting article that reflects a story in Ireland : http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/world/europe/ireland-catholic-baptism-school.html?_r=0

 

Apparently in Ireland schools can still discriminate against children who have not been baptised. Many people would critcize this, but at the same time, does Ireland have the right to defend it's unique Catholic cultural heritage from "non-believers?"

Should Ireland be allowed to do this? Is it right? Your thoughts?

Unique Catholic cultural heritage? Wow, here's an oxymoron.

[sologdin]

ireland ratified the ICCPR and did not reserve against article 18. the discrimination on the basis of religion is accordingly unlawful under international law.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, sologdin said:

ireland ratified the ICCPR and did not reserve against article 18. the discrimination on the basis of religion is accordingly unlawful under international law.

Sologdin,

If Ireland chooses to give the world the middle finger on this type of an issue what should be done?

[sologdin]

nuke from orbit only way to be sure?

[maarsen]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Sologdin,

If Ireland chooses to give the world the middle finger on this type of an issue what should be done?

Same as what Canada should have done with Saudi Arabia and refuse to sell them military equipment.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Maarsen,

Ireland is a big purchaser of military equipment?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, sologdin said:

nuke from orbit only way to be sure?

I really don't see any other way to go about it.

The real question is should we send in SEAL Team 6 to extract all the liquor first?

[maarsen]

That was a bit of a joke Scot. Up here in Canada we are currently in a bit of a bother over the sale of LAV's, manufactured here, being sold to Saudi Arabia, that well known trampler of human rights. The previous govt. made the sale and our new PM has decided to let it go through, even though there is a lot of opposition to it because of fears they will be used in Yemen.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Maarsen,

Ah, I was unaware of that controversy.

[HexMachina]

Also possibly infringing on a right to education. The woman in the linked article had her son rejected from 9 local schools and was seeking alternatives. Pretty good case for challenging on the grounds it infringes the right to education, as it's making education inaccessible for her son

[maarsen]

7 hours ago, Leap said:

Fuck, no. Why is this even in question?

Private schools? Sure, whatever. State schools though, no fucking way, that's sickening.

 

ETA: How is discriminating against non-Catholic Irish citizens wrt education any different than women being unable to drive in Saudi Arabia? 

Saudi Arabia 's human rights  failures are much more extensive than just denying women the right to drive.

[sologdin]

i'd compare both to the standards laid down in international law.  ICCPR, ICESCR, the UNC.  the EU treaties should provide specific guidance, too.

[Erik of Hazelfield]

The parents can sue, then appeal up to the European court if rulings don't go their way (court of justice or human rights, I'm not sure).

I don't expect this situation to be upheld if challenged in court. To me it's a blatant violation of human rights. 

[Jo498]

Seems like a messy conglomerate of Church and State that ought to be abolished. It would be a different case if these were private schools. But public and publicly funded schools must be public, they cannot impose religious constraints or treat children/parents favorably depending on religion.

[The Marquis de Leech]

4 hours ago, Jo498 said:

Seems like a messy conglomerate of Church and State that ought to be abolished. It would be a different case if these were private schools. But public and publicly funded schools must be public, they cannot impose religious constraints or treat children/parents favorably depending on religion.

Note though that even private schools effectively get subsidised by the state, via charitable tax exemption.

(Ireland's charity laws take an exceptionally broad view of charitable promotion of religion. No prizes for guessing why). 

[sologdin]

as I recall it, some canadian provinces have public religious schools?

[maarsen]

1 hour ago, sologdin said:

as I recall it, some canadian provinces have public religious schools?

Yes we do, here in Ontario. Parents can designate where their school taxes will go, public or Catholic board. There is no requirement to actually be Catholic to enroll in that school, or to take the religion courses. A student can ask to be exempted. Even so some school principals do make it difficult to do so. Alberta and Saskatchewan also have religious boards. All the other provinces have abolished their religious boards and every few years in Ontario the issue arises as whether to have a common public board only.

[Astromech]

12 hours ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

The parents can sue, then appeal up to the European court if rulings don't go their way (court of justice or human rights, I'm not sure).

I don't expect this situation to be upheld if challenged in court. To me it's a blatant violation of human rights. 

Ireland's ratification of the ICCPR and its Optional Protocol also allows the UN Committee on Human Rights to hear individual complaints after national remedies have been exhausted. I'm not sure what remedies are available from the Committee other than an opinion. The ECHR may the best option.

1 hour ago, maarsen said:

Yes we do, here in Ontario. Parents can designate where their school taxes will go, public or Catholic board. There is no requirement to actually be Catholic to enroll in that school, or to take the religion courses. A student can ask to be exempted. Even so some school principals do make it difficult to do so. Alberta and Saskatchewan also have religious boards. All the other provinces have abolished their religious boards and every few years in Ontario the issue arises as whether to have a common public board only.

It surprises me that Quebec isn't one of those provinces.