Was Cersei Rearming the Faith really that stupid of a move?

[HouseFossoway]

When people make a list of Cersei's stupidest moves, they always mention rearming the faith, which makes sense since it led to her downfall. However, I don't think it would've been that terrible a move if Cersei hadn't made a ton of other stupid moves as well.

If Cersei hadn't

• tried to frame Margaery
•  slept with Lancel, and then treated him like garbage,
• abused the smallfolk of the city, and instead did a lot of PR work like Margaery
• Worked to alienate the Tyrells, Jaime, and Kevan
• Slept with a lot of people with big mouths, like the kettleblacks.

Would rearming the faith have still been that stupid?

With the faith under the control of the sparrows, they were always going to be a problem that had to be dealt with. The high sparrow wanted real power, and would've pressed Cersei in other ways, as well as calling her ungodly, if she didn't help him out in some way.

And if Cersei had become friends with the Tyrells, and retained the loyalty of Jaime and Kevan, then she would've had allies in case the faith ever became to demanding. And if Cersei had even tried just a little bit to get the people of King's Landing to love her, then perhaps the High Sparrow wouldn't have been so quick to make an example out of her.

And the deal she made with the high sparrow, which cancelled the debt to the faith, as well as got Tommen the blessing, was definitely a big help.

If Cersei hadn't made all of those other mistakes, would arming the faith have been really that bad an idea?

[Cas Stark]

Yes.  Because it created an army outside of Lannister or Iron Throne control. 

[Valyrian Blade]

Well if Cersei wasn't dumb she wouldn't have any problems in ASOIAF.

[Sullen]

Of course it was.

It creates an army of people with goals usually completely contrary to that of the nobility, with a never-ending source of recruits.

It won't destroy any army in the fields, but it'll fuck shit up on a local level.

[Ruhail]

Yes. It leads to her own downfall because of her lack of respect for history and her obsession with being Tywin's heir.

[Sage of Westeros]

Yes and no. From Cersei's point of view she is giving weapons to her religion to take up arms against heathens. All her enemies practice different religions so it seems wise. However, zealots can never be truly trusted and take their own path, as seen, and the leader of the Faith is a staunch zealot.

[Tianzi]

36 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yes.  Because it created an army outside of Lannister or Iron Throne control.

This.

Of course, a ton of other mistakes contributed to her downfall, but creating another power faction that could turn on her had no sense whatsoever.
 

[Neptunium]

The biggest problem with rearming the faith was that they don't follow her. She just assumed the High Sparrow/High Septon would act as a puppet, until he didn't. If the High Septon had been someone loyal to the Lannisters (preferably a Lannister himself), it would have been much less of a problem.

Making the army controlled by the faith itself was another problem. They could have used religion to raise an army similar to how the High Sparrow did it; having the High Septon giving the army his public support, but not actually having any control over it. The management should be in control of Westerlander knights (ideally with a Lannister at the head).

[Nevets]

Yes.  She is creating an armed force that is not subject to the authority of the crown even in theory.  Individual lords may have significant forces, but they are (theoretically, at least) subject to crown authority.  

The only other force not clearly subject to Crown authority is the Night's Watch, and they are bound by long-standing law and custom which inhibits their ability to interfere in political affairs.  Plus, they are out in the middle of nowhere.  

She may think she is creating a force that will be an ally, but all she is doing is creating an alternative power center that could easily turn on her.  While Stannis and his Red Witch may be "enemies of the faith" right now, there is nothing to prevent Cersei from becoming one (as, indeed, seems to have happened).

[anjulibai]

Yes, and it was probably her stupidest move of all. 

[Raisin' Bran]

This thread seems to be in consensus about rearming the Faith. Maybe because I spend a lot of thought on other areas of ASOIAF (Wall, Dance 2.0), I didn't realize quite why it was a bad idea apart from her being arrested in the end. Thanks for helping me put that together in my own head.

[Edward Riley]

Oh yeah...there's nothing dangerous about an army of armed religious fanatics. It's not like they're going to attach bombs to their chests and run into other religion's chapels or anything or force others by torture to convert or go into complete genocide of a race of people.

Maybe they'll even mass together and go attack Valyria as the "Holy Land" and call it...Idk...a Crusade?

 

[Miss CS]

Sorry to the OP, but it was indeed dumb to allow the Faith to arm, as Jaime immediately reflected. They simply cannot be trusted. What if they decide it's time to build a republic, just like that? Or a theocracy? From the view-point of the old elite Cersei belongs to, it's always dumb.

[PCK]

It led to her imprisonment didn't it? It's an army the throne or the House Lannister doesn't control, guided not by gold, but religious belief. An influential leader may try to instill a theocracy. 

[The Arthur Smith]

Yes. Cersei has not learn from history on how annoying the Faith was to Meagor.

But then again, it's not like Cersei is interest in history, particularly one about a tyrannical king...

[Dorian Martell]

8 hours ago, HouseFossoway said:

When people make a list of Cersei's stupidest moves, they always mention rearming the faith, which makes sense since it led to her downfall. However, I don't think it would've been that terrible a move if Cersei hadn't made a ton of other stupid moves as well.

If Cersei hadn't

• tried to frame Margaery
•  slept with Lancel, and then treated him like garbage,
• abused the smallfolk of the city, and instead did a lot of PR work like Margaery
• Worked to alienate the Tyrells, Jaime, and Kevan
• Slept with a lot of people with big mouths, like the kettleblacks.

Would rearming the faith have still been that stupid?

With the faith under the control of the sparrows, they were always going to be a problem that had to be dealt with. The high sparrow wanted real power, and would've pressed Cersei in other ways, as well as calling her ungodly, if she didn't help him out in some way.

And if Cersei had become friends with the Tyrells, and retained the loyalty of Jaime and Kevan, then she would've had allies in case the faith ever became to demanding. And if Cersei had even tried just a little bit to get the people of King's Landing to love her, then perhaps the High Sparrow wouldn't have been so quick to make an example out of her.

And the deal she made with the high sparrow, which cancelled the debt to the faith, as well as got Tommen the blessing, was definitely a big help.

If Cersei hadn't made all of those other mistakes, would arming the faith have been really that bad an idea?

So, you are asking about the validity of a fictional decision if the author had written a completely different story. Right? there was a very large deal made about how much trouble the order caused the Targ kings until it was finally put down.  It is a huge mistake and shows Cersei's mishandling every aspect of the kingdom.  

[Rusty Winchester]

I reread her chapters fairly recently... When you start reading them together it forms a pretty strong pattern of Cersei doing something highly incompetent, --> Cersei ignoring all the warning signs that her plan is terrible, ---> Cersei patting herself on the back for a job well done.  Not always in that order, but all the parts were usually there.  The conclusion I have drawn is that anything Cersei does is terrible and stupid and will likely continue to blow up in her face.  If GRRM had released her chapters as a stand alone instead of Danny's, he could probably have marketed it as a comedy.

[Winter Rose Crown]

She never should have gone into the sept without guards. She knew they were armed, she knew the HS was a fanatic, if they can imprison Marg then they can imprison her... That was idiocy.

Arming them could have been done well if it needed to be. Putting constraints on it like they can defend the faith by arming themselves for 1 year... May not assemble within KL... Etc. She just gave them full reign.

[Paxter Redwyne]

6 hours ago, Edward Riley said:

Oh yeah...there's nothing dangerous about an army of armed religious fanatics. It's not like they're going to attach bombs to their chests and run into other religion's chapels or anything or force others by torture to convert or go into complete genocide of a race of people.

Maybe they'll even mass together and go attack Valyria as the "Holy Land" and call it...Idk...a Crusade?

 

Well, It would actually be good way to fight stannis army, lel.

[Neds Secret]

It certainly would seem so, short term it worked out rather bad for her! Regardless, and per the op, arming religious fanatics so close to a Dynastic seat such as kings landing would always be a stupid move, she only had to be a student of her own Capitals history to see the problems they caused the crown even as recently as Maegor. Power resides where men believe it resides and arming anybody that can affect men's beliefs and loyalties that close to your own seat of power is short sighted and stupid, even her own Aunt Genna was stupefied by Cersie's incompetence as evidenced by this decision.