God's Eye: An Ancient Asteroid Impact Crater?

[Clegane'sPup]

On 4/17/2016 at 9:41 PM, StarkofWinterfell said:

Let's examine God's Eye for a second

It is a mysterious island in the middle of a lake. I would like to read more of Martin's thoughts about it and maybe some day I will. BUT as fantasy fiction goes both Mary Stewart (1979) and Marion Zimmer Bradley (1983) have addressed the issue. A mystical island within a lake.

[Maester Egg]

An asteroid?  Maybe.  Or how about a red-tailed comet?

 

[James Arryn]

11 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

It is a mysterious island in the middle of a lake. I would like to read more of Martin's thoughts about it and maybe some day I will. BUT as fantasy fiction goes both Mary Stewart (1979) and Marion Zimmer Bradley (1983) have addressed the issue. A mystical island within a lake.

Arthurian authors are somewhat forced towards the island/lake deal due to Avalon myth coupled with relevant British geography in proximation to Camelot and Camlann. Plus the Lady of the Lake proves a tempting tie-in.  

That said, islands in lakes are IMO very common features.

[Clegane'sPup]

8 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Arthurian authors are somewhat forced towards the island/lake deal due to Avalon myth coupled with relevant British geography in proximation to Camelot and Camlann. Plus the Lady of the Lake proves a tempting tie-in.  

That said, islands in lakes are IMO very common features.

Are we in kinda agreement that Martin is using a standard mystical idea with his God's Eye?

[James Arryn]

Just now, Clegane'sPup said:

Are we in kinda agreement that Martin is using a standard mystical idea with his God's Eye?

Yeah, probably. You don't create a no-man's land in the absolute centre of everything without wanting (resolved or not) narrative tension.

[Maester of Valyria]

18 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

It could also be a glacial lake carved out during an ice age, when the sea level would be lower making a land bridge between two continents 

I agree: the God's Eye is almost certainly the result of glacial action, the evidence for which is in this link, and also the fact that you don't have to climb up at all to reach the lake (ie it's at or near sea level), which would be the case if it were a volcanic or impact crater.

There is also abundant evidence to suggest that there was a significant sea level rise in the past, which would probably have corresponded with melting ice caps and glaciers, such as the one that probably carved out the God's Eye.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Since the pact made on the Isle of Faces was made before the Long Night then whatever force created the Gods Eye was not also responsible for the Long Night, or the result of it's end.

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

I think most lakes of that type in our world are the result of volcanism, not asteroid impacts…I can't think of any examples of lakes created that way, and the big craters we know about don't have mountains in the middle.

[Maester of Valyria]

On 19/04/2016 at 4:45 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Since the pact made on the Isle of Faces was made before the Long Night then whatever force created the Gods Eye was not also responsible for the Long Night, or the result of it's end.

That is an excellent reminder: too often we forget that all the stuff in ancient history happened before the Long Night. Although the God's Eye could have been formed by a meteorite many millions of years ago (the more likely explanation if you insist on that line of reasoning), this does rule out the idea that a meteor created the God's Eye and caused the Long Night as well.

[White Ravens]

The geological features of Westeros  and the rest of Planetos were not created by natural processes as we understand them.  When GRRM created this world he may or may not have been paying attention to how landforms are created here in real life.  If the Gods Eye was created by processes that we know of here on Earth I favour the impact crater theory.  Large impacts do create a rebound peak at their center and as cited in the OP there are examples of lakes with large islands created by impact events in the past. Volcanic origins don't make sense for me because the lake is not in mountainous terrain.  Ice Age glacial origins are also a pretty good guess.  In current times glacial lakes are often in mountainous areas because glaciers only exist at high elevation in mountainous regions or in the extreme north and south of our planet.  North America's huge Great Lakes were formed by glaciers that advanced and retreated across most of the continent during the Ice Ages.  So for me the impact crater with rebound peak forming an island fits the appearance and location of the Gods Eye.  But, as pointed out the lake was there and the Pact was created on the island before the Long Night so it doesn't neatly mesh with theories of the Long Night being created by a huge impact event.

[Clegane'sPup]

I just wanna know why Howland went to the Isle of Faces and who these greenmen are

[aryagonnakill#2]

59 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I just wanna know why Howland went to the Isle of Faces and who these greenmen are

I believe the green men are cross breeds of Deep ones/squishers and cotf.  Their appearance is described similarly to Garth the Greenhand, who is sometimes depicted as a mermaid, and they are also associated with warging, and it would explain why they are on land but next to water.  It would explain the Baratheon Stag horns as the Green Men are said to have them and Godsgrief married the daughter of the god of wind(cotf) and sea(Deep Ones). 

I believe the Old Ones are a cross between cotf and giants.  The Old Ones founded Old Town, and their skeletons were discovered on Lorath where there are similar structures to the base of the High Tower.  Their skeletons are larger than humans but smaller than giants, and the Lorathi priests cover their eyes to unlock their 3rd eye(skinchanging).  So we have size and skinchanging.  + On Leng where they still supposedly live the people are extra tall and have the golden eyes of cotf.

[Maester of Valyria]

21 hours ago, White Ravens said:

The geological features of Westeros  and the rest of Planetos were not created by natural processes as we understand them.  When GRRM created this world he may or may not have been paying attention to how landforms are created here in real life.  If the Gods Eye was created by processes that we know of here on Earth I favour the impact crater theory.  Large impacts do create a rebound peak at their center and as cited in the OP there are examples of lakes with large islands created by impact events in the past. Volcanic origins don't make sense for me because the lake is not in mountainous terrain.  Ice Age glacial origins are also a pretty good guess.  In current times glacial lakes are often in mountainous areas because glaciers only exist at high elevation in mountainous regions or in the extreme north and south of our planet.  North America's huge Great Lakes were formed by glaciers that advanced and retreated across most of the continent during the Ice Ages.  So for me the impact crater with rebound peak forming an island fits the appearance and location of the Gods Eye.  But, as pointed out the lake was there and the Pact was created on the island before the Long Night so it doesn't neatly mesh with theories of the Long Night being created by a huge impact event.

An impact crater is almost certainly ruled out due to the lack of any noticeable crater wall: you mention how the lake is not in a mountainous area. With this in mind, I believe that glacial action is the only concievable one of the three main theories (volcanic, impact, glacial) as to the lake's formation.

[White Ravens]

14 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said:

An impact crater is almost certainly ruled out due to the lack of any noticeable crater wall: you mention how the lake is not in a mountainous area. With this in mind, I believe that glacial action is the only concievable one of the three main theories (volcanic, impact, glacial) as to the lake's formation.

The OP mentioned Mistastin Crater which doesn't appear to have a crater wall.  Manicouagan Crater also doesn't have a crater wall.  They are both ancient craters that have been eroded by continental ice sheets over several ice ages.  They both look like good candidates for the Gods Eye and the Isle of Faces.

 

[Falcon2908]

If God's eye was indeed caused by an asteroid/meteor impact, that would provide some support to LML's theory about the Long Night

[White Ravens]

I have noticed that everyone posting in this thread refers to the Gods Eye as God's Eye.  Just being pedantic I guess.  But the more I try to wrap my head around Gods Eye the fuzzier things get.  I mean the apostrophe making it possessive, as in the Eye of God, makes sense intuitively and it is probably why virtually everyone types it that way.  But what does it mean, grammatically, without the apostrophe?  My take is that there are multiple gods in Westeros so the Eye is for all of them.  Faces were carved into the trees on the Isle of Faces so that the Gods could witness the creation and signing of the Pact.

 

6 hours ago, Falcon2908 said:

If God's eye was indeed caused by an asteroid/meteor impact, that would provide some support to LML's theory about the Long Night

 

Except, as already pointed out up thread, the Gods Eye and the Isle of Faces existed long before the Long Night took place.

[239JMFL34109]

 don't think there is enough anywhere to say. in the real world large lakes are formed by a number of geological or etc. events. stuff you would measure in millions not thousands of years. 

[Maester of Valyria]

11 hours ago, White Ravens said:

The OP mentioned Mistastin Crater which doesn't appear to have a crater wall.  Manicouagan Crater also doesn't have a crater wall.  They are both ancient craters that have been eroded by continental ice sheets over several ice ages.  They both look like good candidates for the Gods Eye and the Isle of Faces.

 

Yes, this is a possibility, but you mentioned how glacial action was still crucial in eroding the crater walls. While a meteorite impact could have created the initial crater, glacial action is still necessary to create the landmark that we see today. Glacial action also fits in well with what else we can deduce about the world's geological history.

 

8 hours ago, Falcon2908 said:

If God's eye was indeed caused by an asteroid/meteor impact, that would provide some support to LML's theory about the Long Night

The Long Night occurred many years after the Pact was formed on the God's Eye, which would IIRC rule out this part of LML's theory? (I confess I haven't been able to read his stuff for a while).

 

1 hour ago, White Ravens said:

I have noticed that everyone posting in this thread refers to the Gods Eye as God's Eye.  Just being pedantic I guess.  But the more I try to wrap my head around Gods Eye the fuzzier things get.  I mean the apostrophe making it possessive, as in the Eye of God, makes sense intuitively and it is probably why virtually everyone types it that way.  But what does it mean, grammatically, without the apostrophe?  My take is that there are multiple gods in Westeros so the Eye is for all of them.  Faces were carved into the trees on the Isle of Faces so that the Gods could witness the creation and signing of the Pact.

The lake is referred to as 'God's Eye' in the books. Your idea about the faces is almost certainly correct.

 

1 hour ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

 don't think there is enough anywhere to say. in the real world large lakes are formed by a number of geological or etc. events. stuff you would measure in millions not thousands of years. 

This is true; whatever the cause was, the lake and island would have been formed tens of thousands of years ago at the very least. However, it is most consistent with glacial causes.

[Nozlym]

i always thought most ppl assumed this. At least i did. And that the greenmen are protecting what landed there. I also thought this could be a reason for the Geodawnians coming over to Westeros to claim the debris from the crash as its what they used and worshipped when the Bloodstone emperor rolled around.

[White Ravens]

4 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said:

The lake is referred to as 'God's Eye' in the books. Your idea about the faces is almost certainly correct.

No, the lake is referred to as Gods Eye in the books.  No apostrophe.