Vikings X: Halfway Through the Madness

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, RhaeBee said:

Or the point of the pilgrimage, the point of Torvi, the point of Harbard, the point of feminist Judith? 

Hopefully I  the time skip Judith was involved in a fatal Scriptorium related accident.

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

If they are going to the Mediterranean in the next phrase of the series, we'll have more Paris, and Rome.  Can't have Mare Nostrum without Rome, or Spain, or, then, Paris.  Timelines screwed around with, but we are within the windows in which vikings both raided up Spain's rivers, and hired on as bodyguards for Muslim rulers in the south of Spain.

I just don't get why Roland and Therese were whacked.  But then the king (I can never recall his name!) was sure Therese called him stupid, and he wasn't having that.  Still, it does seem rather extreme.  But I'm not a king. I guess as mentioned above, this king is so distrustful of everyone that like the ruler in A Thousand and One Nights, one night is what you get, then off with the head.

 

 

Me either. Since they did actually expose Odious Odo, which helped the Emperor (his name is Charles, grandson of Charlegmane I think?). Is he just going to bump off anyone he seems to want to advance socially/politically? I'm glad they are dead, but only because I think Paris should just go up in flames to try and salvage it

[Martini Sigil]

that was a weird episode.... one minute they're sailing away from Rollo, licking their wounds... and the next Ragnars kids are all grown-up and emo ...  it just seemed really awkward

[Astromech]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

.

I just don't get why Roland and Therese were whacked.  But then the king (I can never recall his name!) was sure Therese called him stupid, and he wasn't having that.  Still, it does seem rather extreme.  But I'm not a king. I guess as mentioned above, this king is so distrustful of everyone that like the ruler in A Thousand and One Nights, one night is what you get, then off with the head.

 

 

Charles the Simple, father of the not-sure-if-she-was-real Gisela who married Rollo. It threw me off for a while because Hirst has a habit of condensing centuries into decades so he can fit many historical actors into relatively brief periods of time. Charles frequently bringing up his grandfather, Charlemagne, and then seeing Roland in the same scene always irks me. The French court is one jarringly compressed for me: Count Odo, Charles the Simple, Rollo, the blending of various sieges.

[Jack Bauer 24]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/22/vikings-what-to-expect-from-season-4b

What to expect from Season 4b.Hirst says that the Ragnar/Rollo clash in the midseason finale was their last confrontation. They will not meet again. 

[Zorral]

On 4/24/2016 at 8:14 PM, Astromech said:

Charles the Simple, father of the not-sure-if-she-was-real Gisela who married Rollo. It threw me off for a while because Hirst has a habit of condensing centuries into decades so he can fit many historical actors into relatively brief periods of time. Charles frequently bringing up his grandfather, Charlemagne, and then seeing Roland in the same scene always irks me. The French court is one jarringly compressed for me: Count Odo, Charles the Simple, Rollo, the blending of various sieges.

Thanks, sweethart!  Though I'm not by any means a specialist in any of these parts of history and the protagonists of same, this timeline compression -- and then slingshots back to the end of the 8th and 9th centuries -- leave me discombulated.  Never know where I am in time relating to Charlemagne, who has been my chron anchor for the so-called Middle Ages all my life.

Also things got more difficult because I travel so much all the time -- just back from 5 days of getting down to the Georgia - Alabama border, and then back up through VA blahblahblah.  And no time to even find out what the weather is anywhere!  Story of my life in attempts to keep up with programs I like.

Despite those big hotel room screens with premium cable, I just can't seem to even turn on the tv.

 

 

[Veltigar]

Only just been able to watch episode 9. I really don't get this show. Some of the stuff this episode was jawdroppingly good and other moments were just terrible. Most of the good stuff follows the old 'the-more-Ragnar-the-better' division line, although I also enjoyed the pilgrimage stuff. And Aelle saved the Wessex storyline. Fingers crossed that he kills Ecbert and that we can finally start focussing on that guy again. I'd really like that. 

Anyway, to single a couple of things out which I really liked. First, I liked that Hirst established the menace of the Vikings in the form of that raid on the farm. Aside from the dumb 'oh look murderous Vikings, let's not talk about that to anyone' I think the scene was really effective. Both in showing us the cruelty of that age and by giving us a clear contrast between Ragnar's way and that of the common Viking. The fact that, unlike on say GoT, we weren't forced to spend ten minutes on a rape fest, but were just shown the aftermath was uncharacteristically tasteful of Hirst. I think it added to the impact of the scene, in the same way that Jarl Borg's blood eagle was better without showing all that gore.

The second scene I need to mention and probably one of my favourite moments in the entire run of this series was the scene in Lagertha's tent, right after her miscarriage. The stuff on display right there, that's the reason why I can't walk away from this series. Despite this shows other failings, there are always little (almost) wordless scenes peppered throughout a season that are just perfect.  Everything about the way Lagertha, Ragnar and Bjorn interacted just felt real to me, as if I was watching through a window in time to some actual Vikings. The characters, their shared history together, that sad vision Ragnar had earlier this season of their family in season one it all came together right there (proving Vikings is at it best when people shut the fuck up and just act like people). The way Ragnar stroked Lagertha's hair and the way she allowed him to do so in her weakest moment, it just proves that they never stopped loving each other, despite all the other stuff that happened over the years. And then the way Lagertha asked the two of the to bugger of and Bjorn and Ragnar silently took up that crouched position without saying a word. Perfect, just absolutely perfect. If I ever decide on writing anything, I'd like my novel/screenplay to have little moments like that.

Next to those two, I just really loved Ragnar throughout. His decision to save the last of his drugs, the way his people cheared him on when they saw the river and his mad Aguirresque fixation on Rollo (the reviewer over at the AVclub wrote that Ragnar transformed from Fitzcaraldo into Aguirre, which is a brilliant connection imo), all were played really well by Fimmel. Heck, just for that I might buy a ticked for Warcraft even if the reviews for it are abysmall. That man is a classact and we need more projects for him!

Only a couple of things were really terrible this week. I'm disappointed that Erlendur is dead, while Torvi seems to be going nowhere. I dislike the character more than Erlendur and the only reason that part exists is because Hirst wanted to throw a bone to one of his daughters. The whole staging of that scene was awful. Nothing made sense there really. The Paris stuff was shite as well. Hirst can't contain himself, the Vikings enemies always need some sort of sexual kink it seems... I hope Ragnar kills Rollo next week. Gisla has a bun in the oven, so the line of the Normans is set. Let's take Rollo out to the pasture and end it. Also disliked the Kattegat stuff. They are trying way to hard with Ivarr and that kid isn't menacing in the slightest. Aside from the fact that turning him in a crippled joker seems like a waste of Ivarr the Boneless, the dialogue there was just poor. This show is at its best when people shut the fuck up (or sing). Case in point Ivarr's crazy expression a few episodes back. 

All in all, this was probably the (second) best episode of the season. The Yule episode might edge it out, but there was some strong stuff in there.

 

[GallowKnight]

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

Only a couple of things were really terrible this week. I'm disappointed that Erlendur is dead, while Torvi seems to be going nowhere. I dislike the character more than Erlendur and the only reason that part exists is because Hirst wanted to throw a bone to one of his daughters. The whole staging of that scene was awful. Nothing made sense there really.

Honestly, if it meant getting rid of Torvi, I would have been Ok with them making Erlendur into Bjorn's love interest.

I'm curious to see what you think of the mid-season finale.

[Veltigar]

3 hours ago, The_Gallows_Knight said:

I'm curious to see what you think of the mid-season finale.

I thought it was shite pretty much all the way through. I was really hyped by the A score this episode got on the AVClub, but if this is the amount of quality you need to get an A from that reviewer, than every Transformers probably deserves at least a B+ in his/her mind. This episode is like a showcase for all Hirsts' failings as a writer. The few potentially good moments being ruined by dreadful dialogue (e.g. the sons first talk about hating Ragnar).

My first major issue with this entire fucking mess is the fact that we get 0 resolution. Why the fuck didn't Rollo die? What the fuck was the point of that battle even. If you're so sure that the only thing Rollo is going to do is attack, why don't you plan for that Ragnar you stupid idiot? It was also pretty convenient that they were using those big floating platforms to clobber one another (and that all the main characters found themselves on one platform)... I thought they were going to be used to put catapults or some sort of siege tower on, the way they were used here was pretty retarded.

I mean, the Franks could easily outmanoever those things and attack from all sides, if they hadn't been so gung ho about just crashing into that shit. The fight choreography was almost as shitty as what we saw in the first episode of season two (does anyone remember that mess?). Seemed like everyone went out of their way trying to hit each others weapons instead of the person holding them And what the fuck was that jump Rollo and Ragnar did in the beginning? Absolutely preposterous. The music was awful as well... and weirdly out of place in this show. Why not some Wardruna stuff instead of that Lux Aeternea knock-off they were using.

Also, no follow up on the fate of Lagertha and Halfdan? What was the point of having them there? It's not like either of them did anything that interesting during the battle... Little Siggy's death apparently has no consequences at all? Everyone seems really fine with it, which is awfully stupid. Wasn't Floki supposed to become the new seer? Seems that is of the table as well. Just as easily forgotten as Porunn. Rollo is also a Christian now apparently, huzzah! And what the fuck was up with King Charles the Annoying offing Dingus and Doofus? What did that storyline add, except for a random series of images to fill out this bloated clusterfuck of a season? It came out of fucking nowhere. 

The dialogue was painful throughout. Rollo's speech before the battle was cringeworthy, it almost made me rake. Of all the bad, cheap Henry V knock-offs I have had the displeasure of reading/seeing over the years, this is definitely in the top three. Aslaug conversation with Bjorn and that random messenger was also pretty bad, not to mention the actual interaction between the sons. Ragnar's speech in the end was almost passable though, so let's give Hirst a sarcastic round of applause for that. 

Not a big fan of the jarring timejump. We got almost 0 intel on the immediate fall-out of Paris (like where were Ubbe and Hvitserk hiding?) and the return was badly written. I don't get Aslaug role in all of this or why she would even still be allowed to dictate terms. It seems to me that Bjorn should be the one calling the shots in Kattegat, not her. Especially after the death of Bjorn's daughter and the discovery that Harbart fucked the entire female population of the village on Aslaug's watch.  

The way the brother's acted was really weird as well. The guy playing Sigurd seems like a total miscast, the guy playing Hvitserk also doesn't look very good. And when he opened his mouth, I was like, does anyone really care about what that twerp has to say? Hvitserk's barely a character. The way Ubbe and Ivar interacted and the way they gave their opinions on Ragnar was also weird. You'd think that Ivarr would have been far less inclined to understand Ragnar's decision, given that the entire point of his character up to that point has been 'Aslaug raises me into a fatherhating psychopath'. The guy playing Ubbe I'll cut some slack, although I think 13-year-old Ubbe was a lot more impressive.  

Now a (very short) list of the things I liked. A lot of useless characters died. Torvi, Dingus and Doofus shouldn't have been there in the first place, but I'm glad they are dead and gone now. When Ragnar walked in, we saw how much Kattegat had grown. That was a cool shot. Ragnar's line to Rollo 'look at you, you look like a bitch' was nice and succint. Really that line was an almost perfect description of Rollo this season (If Ragnar had added something about Rollo being a poorly written waste of time, it would have been absolutely perfect). That was it I think.

Really thoroughly disappointed, although I shouldn't have been surprised. If tWD learned me anything, it's that the whole phenomenon of midseason finales is a terrible creative principle. It's also an insult to the fans imo, now we have to wait until the fall to get more of what I hope is a much, much, much better second half of the season. The trailer for the next 10 episodes looked pretty promising. I liked the fact that there doesn't appear to be this great sibling rivalry plot going forward anymore. Sad to see Rollo back, because I really don't want to be anywhere close to Paris in this showverse.

 

 

[Corvinus85]

On point as usual, but there are a few things I have to question you about.

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

My first major issue with this entire fucking mess is the fact that we get 0 resolution. Why the fuck didn't Rollo die? What the fuck was the point of that battle even. If you're so sure that the only thing Rollo is going to do is attack, why don't you plan for that Ragnar you stupid idiot? It was also pretty convenient that they were using those big floating platforms to clobber one another (and that all the main characters found themselves on one platform)... I thought they were going to be used to put catapults or some sort of siege tower on, the way they were used here was pretty retarded.

I'm pretty sure that the production crew realized how challenging it can be to film a battle on water + you need those sweeping shots of Ragnar v. Rollo  so the whole purpose of those platforms was ease of filming - which was dressed up as floating fortresses. GENIUS. After all, for some reason Rollo had to be the attacker, that's the best defense right?

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

Why not some Wardruna stuff instead of that Lux Aeternea knock-off they were using.

You're going to have to point this out to me, because I generally pay attention to the soundtrack and Trevor Morris has never given me any reason to be dissatisfied so far. But more Wardruna is always welcome.

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

Now a (very short) list of the things I liked. A lot of useless characters died. Torvi, Dingus and Doofus shouldn't have been there in the first place, but I'm glad they are dead and gone now.

Are you sure Torvi died? I thought she just got shot in the arm. And if Lagertha likely survived with that wound, Torvi must have, too. I mean, she's Hirst daughter, come on! Or did she get another acting gig? 

[GallowKnight]

8 hours ago, Veltigar said:

SNIP

Damn, that was harsh. I also think the mid-season finale lacked some resolution and I would have preferred if they had closed out Rollo and Paris completely. But I still think it was somewhat of a return to form ,since it was mostly vikings doing viking shit, and an interesting set-up for the rest so season 4.

But like Corvinus said, I don't think Torvi is dead.

And I guess this also settles whether Hvitserk is Halfdan or not.

[Jedi Renee]

Spoiler I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

saw a trailer for the 2nd half if the season it has Bjorn with Rollo on what looked like kattegat . Also ragnar talking to ivar in an indoor scene 

[Veltigar]

6 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Are you sure Torvi died? I thought she just got shot in the arm. And if Lagertha likely survived with that wound, Torvi must have, too. I mean, she's Hirst daughter, come on! Or did she get another acting gig? 

Well, I saw her go down and I didn't see her in the boat with Lagertha, Ragnar, Bjorn, etc. so I assumed she was dead. Of course, you're right, given the fact that she's Hirst daughter, I probably shouldn't jump to conclusions. Way to bring my mood down Corvinus

46 minutes ago, The_Gallows_Knight said:

But like Corvinus said, I don't think Torvi is dead.

10 minutes ago, The_Gallows_Knight said:

And I guess this also settles whether Hvitserk is Halfdan or not.

Magnus could still be Halfdan I guess? I hope the Vikings new war with Ecbert will revolve around freeing the boy or something. That seems like something this series used to be good at, letting it all revolve around family. 

6 hours ago, Corvinus said:

You're going to have to point this out to me, because I generally pay attention to the soundtrack and Trevor Morris has never given me any reason to be dissatisfied so far. But more Wardruna is always welcome.

I was spitballing with the Lux Aeternea comment (it's basically my shorthand for shitty, overrated piece of filmmusic). Just from the beginning of the battle there is this instrumental piece of score which I felt was really out of place there. 

7 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I'm pretty sure that the production crew realized how challenging it can be to film a battle on water + you need those sweeping shots of Ragnar v. Rollo  so the whole purpose of those platforms was ease of filming - which was dressed up as floating fortresses. GENIUS. After all, for some reason Rollo had to be the attacker, that's the best defense right?

Especially if your opponent, who knows what you're going to do, doesn't take any effort at all to counter whatever you do. I get that filming a battle on water isn't easy, but I can still dislike the result of their stopgap measure. It really didn't make any sense to limit the Vikings mobility with those platforms. The fact that everyone around Ragnar and Rollo mysteriously disappeared and everyone tried their very best to make ludicrous moves and hit weapons instead of people just completly broke all immersion. It felt like watching an Errol Flynn movie and not one of the good ones

 

7 hours ago, Corvinus said:

On point as usual, but there are a few things I have to question you about.

. Why thanks  

47 minutes ago, The_Gallows_Knight said:

Damn, that was harsh.

But eminently fair imo  

49 minutes ago, The_Gallows_Knight said:

I also think the mid-season finale lacked some resolution.

Midseason finales suck balls. Like, I don't know who I need to blame (probably tWD), but they are never any good. 

[Veltigar]

Oh, btw Halfdan survived the battle. He's in the shield wall next to Ubbe in the trailer. 

[Arkash]

In the end, the best action sequence of the season was the one in the premiere : Aethelwulf rescue of Kwen. That scene was brutal and awesome as fuck ! 

Although I must say, despite the underwhelming feel of the episode 10 battle, Ragnar and Rollo exchanging those damn-rythmed punches in the face was quite fun ! 

And despite seasons 3 and 4a being let-downs, they have given be confidence for one aspect of the show going forward : I really think Alexander Ludwig can handle it as the lead in years to come, and I really wouldnt believe I'd say that two years ago... 

[dbunting]

54 minutes ago, Arkash said:

Although I must say, despite the underwhelming feel of the episode 10 battle, Ragnar and Rollo exchanging those damn-rythmed punches in the face was quite fun ! 

For me that was the absolute worst part of the whole segment. I mean there are 10-20 people around them killing each other with axes, swords, and spears and they decide to play Rock em Sock em Robots for a few minutes and no one else stabs one of them? That's what I liked most about the Ned and Jaime scene in GOT, the fact that while they were fighting someone else jumped in, because that is what would really happen. Granted, Jaime decided to kill the guy that helped him but you get the point!

[Jack Bauer 24]

Out of all the shows I watch (which is a lot) it really disappoints me how bad this show is now especially considering it was in my top 3 long ago. It's really fallen on hard times.

[Jack Bauer 24]

48 minutes ago, dbunting said:

For me that was the absolute worst part of the whole segment. I mean there are 10-20 people around them killing each other with axes, swords, and spears and they decide to play Rock em Sock em Robots for a few minutes and no one else stabs one of them? That's what I liked most about the Ned and Jaime scene in GOT, the fact that while they were fighting someone else jumped in, because that is what would really happen. Granted, Jaime decided to kill the guy that helped him but you get the point!

Jaime didn't kill him, he knocked him out.

[HexMachina]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

For me that was the absolute worst part of the whole segment. I mean there are 10-20 people around them killing each other with axes, swords, and spears and they decide to play Rock em Sock em Robots for a few minutes and no one else stabs one of them? That's what I liked most about the Ned and Jaime scene in GOT, the fact that while they were fighting someone else jumped in, because that is what would really happen. Granted, Jaime decided to kill the guy that helped him but you get the point!

I didn't like that scene either. But in my case I was just stuck imagining Simba v Scar in the Lion King as the two play punch ups. *yawn* next scene please.

[-Ghost-]

I've seen that Josh Donaldson is playing a new character called Hoskuld. He is listed as a Viking warrior. I hope he gets an awesome death since he only has a cameo appearance.

So now that Hirst has said that Jonathan Rhys Meyers isn't playing an older Ivar, does anyone have a guess as to who he could be? I didn't realize that he would be in season 5 and not 4B, so I think it rules out anyone from Bjorns raid in the Mediterranean and Alfred. 

[HexMachina]

20 minutes ago, -Ghost- said:

I've seen that Josh Donaldson is playing a new character called Hoskuld. He is listed as a Viking warrior. I hope he gets an awesome death since he only has a cameo appearance.

So now that Hirst has said that Jonathan Rhys Meyers isn't playing an older Ivar, does anyone have a guess as to who he could be? I didn't realize that he would be in season 5 and not 4B, so I think it rules out anyone from Bjorns raid in the Mediterranean and Alfred. 

Magnus?