What the show got better than the books

[Humble AK]

11 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

Also with Season 6 trying to make this big deal out of the battle of the bastards, and have Ramsay be Jon's nemesis this season feels unnatural/comes out of no where. As they decided to cut the pink letter and all news/announcement of Sansa and Ramsay's wedding since the night's watch needs to be isolated. (even though they got new of Dany in the far east) 

Jon literally knows nothing on the show and is barely brighter than Hodor in favour of being this cliché action hero.

It doesn't seem difficult to set up the situation. Ramsay sends Jon a letter this season, or someone informs Jon of Sansa's plight, or any number of workarounds. It's not out of nowhere if things are set up this season. Perhaps it will seem rushed, perhaps even with it being set up this season it will seem to lag too much, or perhaps it will be perfectly paced. I guess we'll know when we see it.

[Ruhail]

28 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I agree. Correct me if I am wrong, but Jon has never mentioned or shared screen time with either Sansa and/or Ramsay??? 

No

[Woman of War]

8 hours ago, Fat Pink Master said:

You've just admitted that you're "dramatically satisfied" by cheap shocks and 180-degree character turns. 

This simply makes no sense since there would not be a turn nor a shock , Baelish has been made more ambiguous already. "dramatically satisfied" ? This wasn't my way to formulate but if I come to think of it ........ why should I dislike your suggestion!?

I like  Brienne the way she is played by Christie. She is more of a ruthless fighter but at the same time we got that wonderful interpretation of her relationship to Jaime. She was not insecure but proud when she stood up in the bathtub, I loved their goodbye scene and her talks to Pod.

I like book Brienne just as much I n her own way and I have no idea how many fans Christie's Brienne has - how could you or I know - but given the media reactions there must be a lot.

[HairGrowsBack]

9 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

This simply makes no sense since there would not be a turn nor a shock , Baelish has been made more ambiguous already. "dramatically satisfied" ? This wasn't my way to formulate but if I come to think of it ........ why should I dislike your suggestion!?

I like  Brienne the way she is played by Christie. She is more of a ruthless fighter but at the same time we got that wonderful interpretation of her relationship to Jaime. She was not insecure but proud when she stood up in the bathtub, I loved their goodbye scene and her talks to Pod.

I like book Brienne just as much I n her own way and I have no idea how many fans Christie's Brienne has - how could you or I know - but given the media reactions there must be a lot.

Honestly I feel like people like  Christie more than her character. I know I do . Show Brienne is just plain mean, unless she's around Jaime. Now that she's forgotten that he exists...

[Woman of War]

8 hours ago, JonSnow4President said:

And that's one of those I can't understand at all.  The efficiency argument doesn't even really work, since those are arguably the top 3 if you're naming main characters.  If anyone's story should be preserved, it should be these three. 

As to aging up, that's a thing I'm kind of on the fence about.  The books do a decent job of showing that these aren't adults, while the show agest them up.  For the most part, the show at least is consistent with the character changes that would be needed for an age up (Jon Snow not crying at the feast for example, but attacking a dummy). For the most part, those are good changes just because of the actors they cast, but I think they're neutral in terms of quality relative to the books.  And for the one glaringly obvious character where they don't really make character changes, it's jarring.

It's hard to say what should have been preserved in Dany and Jon but with Tyrion there his road to darker areas should have been in, at least in parts. But if they had kept every aspect of Dany's, Jon's and Tyrion's story this would have meant to further reduce other, second row, characters. Aegon  and Arianne are gone, some more would have been lost.

I did not like the young ages in the books. Imagine a bunch of criminals respecting a not particularly sparkling fourteen or fifteen year old. And Dany taking her fate into her own hands at thirteen was borderline believable. I felt seriously irritated when I read the books, it was stretching credibility and it annoyed me.

[Woman of War]

2 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Honestly I feel like people like  Christie more than her character. I know I do . Show Brienne is just plain mean, unless she's around Jaime. Now that she's forgotten that he exists...

Just plain mean.... There is aggression in her, you can see it in her face when she fights, that is true. But that Sandor fight was extraordinary in the dirtyness and intensity from both sides. Both actors got the worst out of their characters, both were mean, two impressive actors.

LOL..... Why did that fight start again...... Both characters were utter idiots concerning their social competences.

is it always possible to distinguish between actor and character, hmmmm. It's easierin villains, Ivan Rheon is not Ramsay at all. And yet, how much of the actor is in the character? Do I like Brienne because I like Christie or the other way round?

[HairGrowsBack]

10 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

Just plain mean.... There is aggression in her, you can see it in her face when she fights, that is true. But that Sandor fight was extraordinary in the dirtyness and intensity from both sides. Both actors got the worst out of their characters, both were mean, two impressive actors.

LOL..... Why did that fight start again...... Both characters were utter idiots concerning their social competences.

is it always possible to distinguish between actor and character, hmmmm. It's easierin villains, Ivan Rheon is not Ramsay at all. And yet, how much of the actor is in the character? Do I like Brienne because I like Christie or the other way round?

I dare say GC and Brienne have in common being mocked for their appearance and the stigma that goes with it, but for the rest her personality seems at odds with Show Brienne's grim and nasty behaviour. I don't like the Sandor/Brienne fight, because as you say, it was just a nonsense "wouldn't it be cool if" scenario, that has to bend the characters completely out of shape in order to work.

[Ser Quork]

9 hours ago, Fisch said:

There was a similar thread over a year ago here. My opinions haven't changed much since then, so this is a bit of a cut-and-paste job:

Good in Show

- The battle at Castle Black in Season 4 was much more engaging than in the book IMO.

- Dany taking the Unsullied and burning their masters was extremely well-done.

- They found a way to make the Red Wedding even more brutal, and the added punch actually had a point.

- Tyrion's trial, and the way he stood up to Tywin, had much more impact on me on-screen than it did on the page.

- I found Oberyn a more interesting and fun character in the show than in the book, and thus, his death threw me more in the show.

- Taking advantage of the medium for things like Tyrion's three stories to catch Cersei's spy.

- I think adding in new material for Renly was a smart move. I never understood why people liked him so much in the books; frankly, he struck me as an unnecessary plot flourish a tougher editor would've insisted that GRRM cut. Actually getting to know something of what he thought and what relationships he had, I was glad to have him in the show, brief as his stay was.

- Shae was a much more interesting figure in the show IMO, and I loved what all the new scenes between her and Tyrion brought out of the latter. Her scenes with Sansa, though fewer, were also very nice. She made a better figure for Sansa to put some faith in than Ser Dontos, IMO, even if taking Ser Dontos out meant that his very brief reappearance in Season 4 felt underdeveloped and comical.

- Osha is a much more interesting figure in the show IMO, and her relationship with Bran and the Winterfell household is very touching. Some of my favourite stuff from Season 2.

- Maester Luwin seemed a more solid, warm figure in the show. I wouldn't call BookLuwin cold, and I wouldn't call him inconstant, but he was a tad more...I don't know that "bumbling" is a fair term, but I can't think of a milder one.

- Expanding Theon's brotherly feelings toward Robb down to Bran. Made his actions at Winterfell all the more heartbreaking.

- Related to that - having Rodrik Cassel be the one Theon takes the head off. God, that was sad.

- In simplifying things at King's Landing vis a vis Tyrion's consolidation of power in Season 2, Bronn's part got built up. Good move, 'cause those actors have great chemistry.

- Robb being named King in the North was a great scene.

- The battle-you-don't-see where the northmen all cried out "King in the North!" was great. Wish the show relied on this kind of "less is more" policy more often.

- Aging the kids up. Technically, most of the characters are aged up, but it makes the most difference with the kids. Dany, Robb, and Jon especially. GRRM does a great job with Dany's chapters, and I don't think of her age when I read them. But that's only due to the quality of the writing; if I stop and think about it, it's a huge demand on suspension of disbelief to buy a girl that young thinking and doing the things she thinks and does. Her story is more believable, especially in cinematic/TV terms, with an older girl. Same goes for Robb. And the instances in AGoT where Robb acts like a hotheaded pouty teenager were cut in adaptation, as is appropriate. Too bad they didn't do that with Jon (more on that later...)

- "Rains of Castamere" sounds great.

- Ser Alliser. This is in part due to the actor, who is delightfully hateful as an embittered old drillmaster. But ShowAlliser seems braver and more competent than his book counterpart, and unlike the book, it is Slynt who sucks up to him and not the other way around. For some reason, I like that dynamic better. There isn't a great difference between Show and BookAlliser; ShowAlliser certainly isn't deeper or more nuanced; but what difference there is creates a more fun character IMO.

- Eliminating Penny. On the whole, I don't think Tyrion's material in Season 5 was an improvement over ADoD, but axing this side character was.

- Eliminating Aegon and Quentyn. IMO, these elements were just a little too much to toss in this late in the game in the books. The show has its own problems with throwing in too much, but losing these guys was smart.

Bad in Show

- Taking out the reveal about Tysha to Tyrion. I get the need to simplify things, but that's rather important to Tyrion's character.

- Costume design. Calling this "bad" isn't fair, as I don't really have a problem with the costume design on its own. But as described by GRRM, the costuming of Planetos is so varied, and so well-thought-out, and so interesting, that it's a shame so much of it was discarded. I just know there's a way to get the Boltons in pink without getting laughs!

- In general, the show is far more guilty of "tell, don't show" than the books. And that shouldn't even be possible.

- I don't think the Reeds are anywhere near as compelling as their book counterparts, Meera especially.

- Somewhat related: Jojen's death, the arrival at the big weirwood, and the appearance of Brynden and the Children of the Forest seemed rather tossed off, and not given nearly enough weight.

- All the changes made to Cersei in the name of making her more "sympathetic." On the score of adaptation, it's resulted in a character that's almost (not quite) a whole different persona from her book counterpart. Taken on her own terms, ShowCersei gets so many speeches devoted to how miserable and damaged she is that it ends up being an exercise in self-pity IMO, and makes her annoying rather than interesting. And, looking at it with cold logic - most of those speeches so far have been to Tyrion, someone she actively hates and distrusts, or to other people she has reason not to be open to. There is no sense in having her be so open, vulnerable, and honest so often to so many figures she doesn't want to let her guard down around. And Lena Hadley just does not match up to what I personally imagine when I read the books. While Hadley has had her emotional moments on the show, her default mode for Cersei seems to be one of tight, quiet restraint with a grumpy expression on her face. The Cersei I picture while reading the books is far more volatile, whose efforts to comport herself with dignity come off, not as the real thing, but as a childish woman's (over) acting at what she thinks dignity looks like. Even with all the changes made to ShowCersei, I regret the absence of that quality. That's not really a right or wrong issue when it comes to adaptation, just a personal preference.

- Stannis. Again, from an adaptation standpoint, he was rendered into a very different figure than he is in the book. Again, from a logic standpoint, the changes made greatly undermine the faith and loyalty Davos had for him. BookStannis isn't a favourite of mine, and he's clearly an unhappy and unlikable prick, but we do actually see him, and hear of him, being the just man everyone says he is, and he's clearly uncomfortable with aspects of Melissandre's religion and way of building him up. On the morality spectrum, he's pure grey, a Lawful Neutral. ShowStannis was coloured in much too dark a shade of grey to be considered a fair adaptation IMO. If anything, the failure of D&D with his character made appreciate him more in the books. Stannis and Cersei both strike me as characters that the showrunners either fundamentally misunderstand, or never cared to understand, because they were more interested in using those slots in the story for material of their own contrivance.

- On a related note: In earlier seasons, I liked the expanded role given to Shireen. But when all was said and done with her, and with Selyse, at the end of Season 5, I just didn't feel that that expansion was worth the screen time that it took away from far more important characters - Jon, for instance.

- On a second related note: if Bran can be cut out of an entire season (when he still has material from ADwD that could be used), why couldn't Stannis be kept out of Season 4 until the big reveal at the end? Every one of his scenes in that season felt like useless padding.

- On another related note: most of Dany's material in Season 4 felt like useless padding, and the exile of Jorah didn't have nearly enough of a build-up or payoff IMO. Neither did the chaining of the dragons.

- On yet another related note: having so much time between Jon altering the Night's Watch and the actual battle resulted in - you guessed it - useless padding. That escapade at Craster's Keep may have given some action to the series, but it wasn't worth it.

- One one more related note: Arya's adventures with the Hound were needlessly padded in Season 4 (can you tell which was my least favourite season?)

- The Halfhand, and Jon capturing Ygritte, were terribly handled IMO.

- Robert wasn't exactly unfaithfully adapted, but we only saw his oafish side for too much of his time in the show. Aside from the invented scene with Cersei, there wasn't really a whole sequence devoted to his vulnerabilities.

- Related note: we only saw Edmure's oafish side.

- I prefer Sansa's story in the Vale the way it is in the books, not what we got in Season 5. I don't object to the rape scene (the one in the book was worse IMO), but I do object to Sansa being such a passive cipher at this point, and to the Boltons getting much more time on air than she did.

- Related: the Boltons sitting around talking about troublesome bannermen isn't anywhere near as impressive as ADoD's scenes of the Boltons trapped in Winterfell with hostile bannermen.

- Kevan Lannister doesn't throw the same sort of hard truths at Cersei as he does on the page.

- I more than understand why they can't do more with the direwolves, but it is a shame we don't see more of them.

- Related: anything related to magic or the supernatural seems uncomfortable territory for D&D compared to the political intriguing. Unfortunately, the most important threats to Westeros are the supernatural.

- Going way overboard in showing Theon's torture. I get it - you wanted to push the audience and make them uncomfortable with the price Theon paid for his sins. You can still push that too far, to the point it loses its impact and just becomes yet another case of Useless Padding (Copyright 2015, renewed 2016).

- Perhaps the worst case of Useless Padding in the entire series: what was the point of Yara going to the Dreadfort?

- I enjoy the Battle of Blackwater Bay in the show, but compared to the book, it does seem quite a bit more simple in terms of strategy.

- Mis/Grey Worm. The romance, and the expansion on their characters. They're just not interesting.

- The Sand Snakes didn't sway me one way or the other in the books, but on screen, they - and Dorne as a whole - were easily the worst thing done on the show to date.

- Olly. Just...just Olly.

- Turning Tormund Giantsbane into another generic, sullen barker of orders.

- After being given good material for the early seasons, Dany has increasingly become the least interesting thing in the scenes meant to be concerned with her story.

- Expanding on the Tyrells. In earlier seasons, I would have listed this as a positive change, but much like the expansion of Shireen, I felt at the end of Season 5 that it wasn't worth it. Margery's expanded role earlier on primarily served to bring something out of Joffrey and Cersei. As time has gone on, Marg (and Loras, and Olenna) got more material for their own sake. While some of that was genuinely entertaining and a welcome surprise, it came at the price of eating up screen time that could have gone to, frankly, more important characters.

- The aging up didn't work as well with Jon, at least not in the early seasons, for one big reason: the material that showed Jon acting like a sullen teenage boy wasn't cut or modified to reflect his being aged up, leaving a young man acting like a young boy.

- The show eventually got past the previous complaint about Jon, but frankly, he wasn't given enough screen time in Seasons 4 or 5. As impressive as the massacre at Hardhome was, Jon's struggles in growing into command and bridging the divide between the wildlings and the Night's Watch would've made for solid television, and it shouldn't have been discarded. Certainly not for the expanded roles given to Shireen, the Tyrells, or the Boltons.

- GRRM has said that his worldview is "anything but nihilistic" in response to criticism (or praise) that ASoIaF was so. He's apparently described himself as a humanist and romantic (not seen those interviews myself, so that may be wrong). And he's flat-out declared the Starks (and the Night's Watch) to be heroes. At a certain point, then, it becomes extremely frustrating to have the show undercut the Starks, and Stark morality, at seemingly every step. Boosting the number of times Ned's called fool/idiot/whatever; boosting the Hound's dark assumptions about the world that he tries to pass on Sansa; the Hound mocking Arya's fighting style and Syrio in a scene that's cut together to support everything he says; the Halfhand being turned into such a cynic (a change that has no real payoff, I might add); I could go on. And it's not just the Starks; those aspects of ASoIaF that could be called humanistic or romantic are often tossed out of the show, and dark things GRRM is content to imply become extremely graphic. I do enjoy the show quite a bit, but in the same way that Peter Jackson's more childish excesses make me wonder sometimes if he was the best fit for Tolkien, I sometimes wonder if D&D were the best fit for Martin. 

Just copied to say: great, even-handed post.

IMO, the only thing that the show had done better is ageing up Robb, Jon and Dany (although sometimes the execution of this has not followed through appropriately).  But, yeah, the original ages would have been difficult to translate to the small screen and be acceptable to modern sensibilities.

[Woman of War]

1 hour ago, HairGrowsBack said:

I dare say GC and Brienne have in common being mocked for their appearance and the stigma that goes with it, but for the rest her personality seems at odds with Show Brienne's grim and nasty behaviour. I don't like the Sandor/Brienne fight, because as you say, it was just a nonsense "wouldn't it be cool if" scenario, that has to bend the characters completely out of shape in order to work.

I like both ways concerning Brienne, the way of the books and the show's way, they are both hugely interesting and Brienne is not boring at all. 

But Christie added an intensity I love. I am captivated by her interpretation. If you don't like it because it's different from the books, then ok, you won't like it. I don't mind the difference since it's a valid re-interpretation. I mean, you can play Shakespeare in a hundred different ways and yet present great theater, why not Martin?

Concerning the Brienne/Sandor fight or better said the start of the fight: neither in books nor in the show these two are presented as sophisticated and as having great social skills. Neither is an idiot, show Sandor is even more witty and clever than book Sandor but both characters seriously lack social competences.

The mistake of the show is the lack of buildup. They could have led the two characters into that fight by a little more carefully done dialogue and basically the same would have happened. Now you will tell me that you did not like the fight to happen at all, so whatever led there was wrong. I disagree but I understand that it is most painful if two beloved protagonists fight. If I had not known that someone had to bring Sandor close to death and if I had not assumed that Brienne will go on this fight would have been awful for me as well. 

But Sandor nearly (I always thought that the maester would sit behind the rock) dead was necessary for his and Arya's story and so I preferred the great fight in the show to seeing him waste away from sepsis. Different medium.

Yes, Brienne is not the pure soul like in the books, she is more flawed. Does this make her less worthy of getting a  positive love story? Do only purely good girls and guys deserve happiness? Not at all, not in Martin's books. Actually, Brienne/Jaime is the only love story I care about (apart from my incurable shipping of Tyrion and a bit of happiness ;), I may have said that from time to time). 

Brienne/Jaime is a gem, an unparalleled exception in the story and yet the miracle of a happy ending will most likely not happen, neither in books nor in show. But for sure it will not fail because these two are seen as "morally unworthy" by Martin.

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

1 hour ago, HairGrowsBack said:

I dare say GC and Brienne have in common being mocked for their appearance and the stigma that goes with it, but for the rest her personality seems at odds with Show Brienne's grim and nasty behaviour. I don't like the Sandor/Brienne fight, because as you say, it was just a nonsense "wouldn't it be cool if" scenario, that has to bend the characters completely out of shape in order to work.

Hardly, it was a brilliant scene. Everything about it was great, and one of the things I truly can say was an improvement on the books. 

So many great things about it. Brienne actually finding Arya instead of hunting around NOT finding anyone for starters. That great moment where Arya see's a female warrior and sees a future version of herself, that sort of mutual respect. Having Sandor coming out from taking a dump and Pod recognising him. Briennes regret at not being able to protect Cat. Sandor telling Brienne that there is no place of safety any more, but seeing how protective he is of Arya. The fight itself which was brutal and savage, but felt real. And the way Arya leaves the Hound. 

I'd rather take that scene + Pod and Brienne meet LF + and candle watching over Nimbledick.

[HairGrowsBack]

1 minute ago, Woman of War said:

snip

 

I'd say overall my issue is that

1) you can take many liberties when adapting something, but changing the characters' personalities and motivations is not one of them. I get that some changes were to be made where Brienne is concerned due to Gwen being way older, but they went too far to have her fit their definition of Strong Female Character ™

2) I don't mind show Brienne because she is flawed. My favorite characters all have flaws (even book Brienne), the problem is that she has little depth to her and has basically one or two modes : angry smash and Jaime mode (and that was only for the Oathkeeper scene)

[Woman of War]

16 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Hardly, it was a brilliant scene. Everything about it was great, and one of the things I truly can say was an improvement on the books. 

So many great things about it. Brienne actually finding Arya instead of hunting around NOT finding anyone for starters. That great moment where Arya see's a female warrior and sees a future version of herself, that sort of mutual respect. Having Sandor coming out from taking a dump and Pod recognising him. Briennes regret at not being able to protect Cat. Sandor telling Brienne that there is no place of safety any more, but seeing how protective he is of Arya. The fight itself which was brutal and savage, but felt real. And the way Arya leaves the Hound. 

I'd rather take that scene + Pod and Brienne meet LF + and candle watching over Nimbledick.

 

16 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

 

Maybe you are right and I see the dialogue too much with my modern eyes, skilled in mediation. We all are used to dealing verbally with conflicts since we do not have to assume that one wrong word is enough to make the other draw blank. In a timesetting like that Brienne and Sandor had to be prepared to attack physically any moment, meaning they could not patiently wait out what effect reasonable arguing might have. 

And there was Brienne's inability to explain away the Lannister weapon.

[HairGrowsBack]

4 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Hardly, it was a brilliant scene. Everything about it was great, and one of the things I truly can say was an improvement on the books. 

So many great things about it. Brienne actually finding Arya instead of hunting around NOT finding anyone for starters. That great moment where Arya see's a female warrior and sees a future version of herself, that sort of mutual respect. Having Sandor coming out from taking a dump and Pod recognising him. Briennes regret at not being able to protect Cat. Sandor telling Brienne that there is no place of safety any more, but seeing how protective he is of Arya. The fight itself which was brutal and savage, but felt real. And the way Arya leaves the Hound. 

I'd rather take that scene + Pod and Brienne meet LF + and candle watching over Nimbledick.

The scene was nonsensical. Show defenders love talking about realism, but Bri meeting by chance Hot Pie And Arya AND Sansa by chance is just completely unrealistic. Book Brienne didn't find them because it is hard.. Could you find someone you never saw by yourself in the geographic equivalent of South America ? I doubt it.

Then you have Arya saying Ned didn't want her to fight . Huh ? Last time I checked, Ned was the one hiring Syrio to teach her swordfight. They're forcing parallels between Brienne and Arya :while existing in some respect, the character that Brienne parallels the most is Sansa. But that's just too original for the writers to wrap their heads around.

Brienne killing Arya's protector doesn't feel real, as is letting her go because she's too busy smashing around. It was just another example of key dangling to the audience " this doesn't make sense, but doesn't it look cool ?" (also see : Hardhome). A big bag of nothing, especially considering there were no consequences whatsoever.

And Nimbledick is awesome, a kind of good-hearted humour the show could use. But that's a matter of taste, I won't fight you over this.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

10 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

I'd say overall my issue is that

1) you can take many liberties when adapting something, but changing the characters' personalities and motivations is not one of them. I get that some changes were to be made where Brienne is concerned due to Gwen being way older, but they went too far to have her fit their definition of Strong Female Character ™

2) I don't mind show Brienne because she is flawed. My favorite characters all have flaws (even book Brienne), the problem is that she has little depth to her and has basically one or two modes : angry smash and Jaime mode (and that was only for the Oathkeeper scene)

Again thats simply not true. In that scene alone she goes through numerous different emotions and displays far more than Jamie or angry. She's regretful, polite and respectful, caring, she has a sense of duty. She gets angry because shes in a fight.. 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

2 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

The scene was nonsensical. Show defenders love talking about realism, but Bri meeting by chance Hot Pie And Arya AND Sansa by chance is just completely unrealistic. Book Brienne didn't find them because it is hard.. Could you find someone you never saw by yourself in the geographic equivalent of South America ? I doubt it.

Then you have Arya saying Ned didn't want her to fight . Huh ? Last time I checked, Ned was the one hiring Syrio to teach her swordfight. They're forcing parallels between Brienne and Arya :while existing in some respect, the character that Brienne parallels the most is Sansa. But that's just too original for the writers to wrap their heads around.

Brienne killing Arya's protector doesn't feel real, as is letting her go because she's too busy smashing around. It was just another example of key dangling to the audience " this doesn't make sense, but doesn't it look cool ?" (also see : Hardhome). A big bag of nothing, especially considering there were no consequences whatsoever.

And Nimbledick is awesome, a kind of good-hearted humour the show could use. But that's a matter of taste, I won't fight you over this.

Book Brienne didn't mean anyone of worth until Gendry. To you that might be realistic.. to me its a huge waste of time. At least have Briennes travels amount to something.. ANYTHING! The show achieves that really well, fixing a major flaw of the books. 

Again your complaints amount to 'not the book' which for me is such an irrelevant argument. Is Brienne a relevant mirror of Arya on the show? Yes. So having them meet each other was a fantastic moment, having Arya see that she could grow into a warrior and have a role model.. and then it all turns around in one scene. 

You might not have noticed but the Hound was trying to kill Brienne. You might not have noticed but when someone is trying to kill you, you might lose track of whats happening around you and concentrate on simply staying alive. That again is a bizarre complaint to have. 

Nimbledick might be an enjoyable character, but if anything was a big bag of nothing it was his entire presence. 

[HairGrowsBack]

2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Again thats simply not true. In that scene alone she goes through numerous different emotions and displays far more than Jamie or angry. She's regretful, polite and respectful, caring, she has a sense of duty. She gets angry because shes in a fight.. 

Is she caring ? When ? Respectful ? She's mean to everyone socially inferior to her.

Her sense of duty is revenge, which is secondary at best to her book counterpart character. They're doing the opposite of what Brienne is about

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Just now, HairGrowsBack said:

Is she caring ? When ? Respectful ? She's mean to everyone socially inferior to her.

Her sense of duty is revenge, which is secondary at best to her book counterpart character. They're doing the opposite of what Brienne is about

Caring - shes there to look after Arya and protect her, she seems to genuinely care for her wellbeing , same could be said of how she feels about Sansa.

Respectful, when she meets Arya, she treats her with respect and is able to empathise with her. If you are talking about her treatment of Pod, I think you have completely misunderstood WHY she is mean to him. 

[HairGrowsBack]

10 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Caring - shes there to look after Arya and protect her, she seems to genuinely care for her wellbeing , same could be said of how she feels about Sansa.

Respectful, when she meets Arya, she treats her with respect and is able to empathise with her. If you are talking about her treatment of Pod, I think you have completely misunderstood WHY she is mean to him. 

Oh, I know why, and that's good and all, but that's not Brienne. And that's mean, no matter the reasons.

She might  care about Arya, but the brute instinct are stronger : she kills the person Arya visibly identifies as her protector, and leaves Sansa to pimp LF and psycho Ramsay. She doesn't try very hard.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

6 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Oh, I know why, and that's good and all, but that's not Brienne. And that's mean, no matter the reasons.

She might  care about Arya, but the brute instinct are stronger : she kills the person Arya visibly identifies as her protector, and leaves Sansa to pimp LF and psycho Ramsay. She doesn't try very hard.

Again 'Not book enough' is a poor argument and means nothing to me. Shes entirely consistent with the show version of Brienne, a character I really enjoy.

She kills Sandor because hes trying to kill her. What is it you ACTUALLY expected her to do? Maybe you should go back and watch the scene because your understanding of it is quite weak. 

And your argument about Sansa is poor as well. After being rejected as a protector by Sansa, she doesn't simply give up, but follows her and basically stalks her because shes still intent on protecting her. Thats hardly 'not trying very hard'. This was a girl who said she didn't need Brienne, so what? Brienne should just kidnap her or something?

[HairGrowsBack]

5 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Again 'Not book enough' is a poor argument and means nothing to me. Shes entirely consistent with the show version of Brienne, a character I really enjoy.

She kills Sandor because hes trying to kill her. What is it you ACTUALLY expected her to do? Maybe you should go back and watch the scene because your understanding of it is quite weak. 

And your argument about Sansa is poor as well. After being rejected as a protector by Sansa, she doesn't simply give up, but follows her and basically stalks her because shes still intent on protecting her. Thats hardly 'not trying very hard'. This was a girl who said she didn't need Brienne, so what? Brienne should just kidnap her or something?

Again it is an adaptation . Characters aren't interchangeable units. If they want to have their own OC, just write your own story, and don't take credit from another.

She drew steel first, so I'd say she was the one trying to kill Sandor.

Watching a candle from 1km distance in winter time isn't a good way of protecting her. But then, Sansa being there is absurd in the first place so everything that stems from it is bound to be ridiculous as well.