Quentyn - Dead? Alive? Dragonrider?

[Good Guy Garlan]

2 minutes ago, Sullen said:

Didn't they find the body, his eyes eaten by crabs?

It was an imposter, obviously. Varys switched Balon with a fake person in midfall. 

[Sullen]

6 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

It was an imposter, obviously. Varys switched Balon with a fake person in midfall. 

Or rather, Balon's spirit lives through his eyes, and warged the crabs that feasted on them.

He's simply bidding his time now.

[Good Guy Garlan]

4 minutes ago, Sullen said:

Or rather, Balon's spirit lives through his eyes, and warged the crabs that feasted on them.

He's simply bidding his time now.

And those crabs likely ended up in the stew Davos ate at the Sisters, so now Balon is warging him. 

Balon = Davos confirmed

[Sullen]

Just now, Good Guy Garlan said:

And those crabs likely ended up in the stew Davos ate at the Sisters, so now Balon is warging him. 

Balon = Davos confirmed

You might have actually stumbled upon the greatest theory since Hodor + Catelyn = Rickon.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Just now, Sullen said:

You might have actually stumbled upon the greatest theory since Hodor + Catelyn = Rickon.

Almost as great as Bran = Willas

[Sullen]

2 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Almost as great as Bran = Willas

I don't remember this one, though I have to say that to think of it, it does make an awful amount of sense... especially if you consider that Highgarden is home to many chestnut trees, which Future Bran could use to create dyes to change his hair colour, and that the lemon trees in Dorne (just South of the border) could be used to create an acidic mixture able to curl his hair.

Also, they are both known as cripple dog boys, oh my god.

[Good Guy Garlan]

3 minutes ago, Sullen said:

I don't remember this one, though I have to say that to think of it, it does make an awful amount of sense... especially if you consider that Highgarden is home to many chestnut trees, which Future Bran could use to create dyes to change his hair colour, and that the lemon trees in Dorne (just South of the border) could be used to create an acidic mixture able to curl his hair.

Also, they are both known as cripple dog boys, oh my god.

And both of their names have letters in them!

[GyantSpyder]

19 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

I'm 99% Quentyn died, but then why are Drinkwater and Yronwood being so sketchy in that dungeon scene.

 

One possibility is that Quentyn is dead, but that the dragon didn't kill him, Archibald and Drink did. They might have been sent with orders to prevent Quentyn from coming home alive, since the Yronwoods are a rival house to the Martells and not part of their inner circle. It's possible Quentyn, though badly burned, successfully tamed Rhaegal, and, seeing that, Drink pulled his sword and murdered him. and Arch was quick-thinking and covered it up.

They could not have permitted anyone to find Quentyn's body, because it would show he was stabbed, not eaten by a dragon. So they swapped out his body for somebody else (maybe the tattered prince?), who was obviously burned to death.

And that would mean Quentyn was a dragontamer for a brief moment, but now his body is just shattered unrecognizable bone fragments.

Then their talking up his character would be an (unnecessary) attempt to deflect suspicion from themselves. Unnecessary because the whole point of the misdirection is that Barristan Selmy isn't nearly as smart as he thinks he is and is charging headlong into a huge disaster.

It's also the kind of theory that never has to be proven or even returned to later in the story. Maybe nobody ever really knows the truth.

One reason I like the idea that Quentyn survived is that his chapter ends with him reciting Rhaegal's name in his head, and then screaming something. We don't hear what he screams. Brienne also ends her final chapter in A Feast for Crows screaming something on pain of death, and we have every reason to believe she screamed something that saved her life. So if Quentyn screamed "RHAEGAL!" or some other command, that would be a cool parallel.

But there's no way of knowing at this point.

[Sullen]

1 minute ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

And both of their names have letters in them!

That's just like GRRM to put hints so subtle in his books, truly a literary genius!

 

(Alright, enough derailing now)

[Ser Hyle]

7 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

Only in the ASOIAF fanbase could a man be fully engulfed in dragonfire, have dozens of people hear that mans screams and pain for 3 days, and then another handful of loyal men actually *witness* his final breath...and still be considered possibly alive.

Are we *really* running out of things to talk about on this forum?  

You're blaming the fanbase and not the universe in which several characters have ostensibly died, but then still played a role in the story?

[Maxxine]

1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

I think the real question here is why would anyone want Quentyn to be alive? The bitch is dead, rejoice!

And no, that's not just me being a Quentyn hater (though I am, gods, I hate that damn toad), but like, in terms of plot what would it achieve? The whole thing was a setup for a Dany vs Dorne enmity, which wouldn't happen if Quentyn survived. And don't even get me started on the thematic implications. GRRM apparently thought we needed yet another deconstruction of the hero's journey in this series so he gave us Quentyn. Now he's not going to backtrack on that. 

Like, the very first line of the first Quentyn chapter tells us upfront what we're in for: "Adventure stank." As in, Quentyn is shit at life. 

I feel like it's been a while Good Guy. Anyway, I thought about the Dany vs. Dorne thing as the reason why GRRM made us read through hundreds of Quentyn pages just to have him die (stupidly I might add) in the end. If this is what happens I'll just despise the Dornishmen which is sad because I really wanted to like them. I was already annoyed that everyone except for Doran called Oberyn's death murder. It would be even more unreasonable to blame Dany for Quent's death considering she wasn't even there and it was his stupid decision to try to steal a dragon. But it is highly likely that this will happen considering what how they reacted to Oberyn's death and the fact that Arianne already has questions about Dany.

I pretty much said Quentyn's dead because I cant stand him, but I want to play devil's advocate. If he's alive and/or a dragonrider it gives a lot more options in terms of plot than him just being dead. He could be alive and be on Dany's side and Arianne could potentially be on Aegon's side if there Dance 2. Could create issues between the family and Dorne as a whole. Or it could be the reason Aegon and Dany could decide to do the smart thing and ally together instead of fighting each other. If he's a dragonrider we also get one of the "dragon has to have three heads" out of the way. I'm not the biggest fan of Quent being a dragonrider but I'm ready to get that issue out of the way and I'd prefer him to Euron/Victarion.

[Ruhail]

I love this site. 

[Ashur]

21 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

I'm 99% Quentyn died, but then why are Drinkwater and Yronwood being so sketchy in that dungeon scene.

 

 

Archie Yronwood was just frustrated. Gerris is the "false coin". I don't want to be annoying with my false Quentyn theory, but leaving that apart, I'm pretty sure that the pirate attack near to the disputed lands was an scheme to get Cletus, maester Kedry and ser Willam Wells out of Quent's dangerous trip. Those three would probably join the Golden Company. Nobody in his right mind would anchor a ship next to the Disputed Lands, knowing that those waters were reportedly full of pirates. There are many odd things involving Quentyn's trip. But the lad is dead, 100% sure. Anyway, when Arianne will finally meet (F)Aegon, I bet that she'll found that Cletus is already there.

[Yevah]

In my opinion Quentyn died to move the plot forward. I know a lot of people find Quentyn's storyline pointless but I believe it serves a higher purpose. I suspect that Doran will be outraged when he discovers his son has been killed at the hands of Dany's Dragons. To move forward he will need to find another suitor which would be Arianne to fAegon. With Quentyn alive he moves forward with Danny, but why would he when he has another Targaryen at his doorstep.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

None, although the Hound was in pretty bad shape. And more to your point, if this is a theme of Martin's, like the dying POV's in prologues and epilogues, and the ambiguous death in Dance is Jon Snow, then Quentyn should be dead. Unless, of course, it's Jon who is really dead...

Well I don't need to forecast here, but even if he's dead there are ways around that.

 

[The Fresh PtwP]

2 hours ago, Ashur said:

 

Archie Yronwood was just frustrated. Gerris is the "false coin". I don't want to be annoying with my false Quentyn theory, but leaving that apart, I'm pretty sure that the pirate attack near to the disputed lands was an scheme to get Cletus, maester Kedry and ser Willam Wells out of Quent's dangerous trip. Those three would probably join the Golden Company. Nobody in his right mind would anchor a ship next to the Disputed Lands, knowing that those waters were reportedly full of pirates. There are many odd things involving Quentyn's trip. But the lad is dead, 100% sure. Anyway, when Arianne will finally meet (F)Aegon, I bet that she'll found that Cletus is already there.

Quent was with Cletus when he died...

“Give your bride a kiss for me,” Cletus had whispered to him, just before he died".  -The Merchant's Man ADwD

[Good Guy Garlan]

3 hours ago, Maxxine said:

I feel like it's been a while Good Guy. Anyway, I thought about the Dany vs. Dorne thing as the reason why GRRM made us read through hundreds of Quentyn pages just to have him die (stupidly I might add) in the end. If this is what happens I'll just despise the Dornishmen which is sad because I really wanted to like them. I was already annoyed that everyone except for Doran called Oberyn's death murder. It would be even more unreasonable to blame Dany for Quent's death considering she wasn't even there and it was his stupid decision to try to steal a dragon. But it is highly likely that this will happen considering what how they reacted to Oberyn's death and the fact that Arianne already has questions about Dany.

I pretty much said Quentyn's dead because I cant stand him, but I want to play devil's advocate. If he's alive and/or a dragonrider it gives a lot more options in terms of plot than him just being dead. He could be alive and be on Dany's side and Arianne could potentially be on Aegon's side if there Dance 2. Could create issues between the family and Dorne as a whole. Or it could be the reason Aegon and Dany could decide to do the smart thing and ally together instead of fighting each other. If he's a dragonrider we also get one of the "dragon has to have three heads" out of the way. I'm not the biggest fan of Quent being a dragonrider but I'm ready to get that issue out of the way and I'd prefer him to Euron/Victarion.

Hi! I get what you're saying, about Quentyn's entire existence being anticlimactic (in more ways than one), but George painted himself into a corner with this. Either Quentyn is dead and the most his death can accomplish is to move the plot towards a Dany vs Dorne conflict, or there's a huge, convoluted cop out and Quentyn is alive and does something unrealistic and weird. 

I don't know, Quentyn as a character was dead on arrival. Try as I might I can't think of a convincing scenario in which he's not a waste of space. I mean, his peak was getting roasted by Rhaegal. That was as interesting as he was gonna be, in my humble opinion.

[shadows and dust]

If we imagine Doran has been on the Aegon train since it left the station, and the JonCon reunion was always in the works.

Doran may have been aware of the Danny plan B Varys/Mopatis had, but didn't have a reason to put anything into action until she became a player. What followed was a folly, poorly thought out and poorly executed. Which is crazy as a plan A, but more excusable as a hurried plan B.

[Black Dragons]

I really WISH he was still alive I like him very much Quentyn Martell is the person in all of us, but this is GOT I think he is dead. Let hope he still is!

[kimim]

This is fitting.