Do you need valyrian blood to warg a dragon?

[Siberia]

Lots of people think Bran is the one who's going to warg a dragon cause he's obviously the strongest warg in the Stark Family. But since dragons only follow the command of the valyrians,

I honestly think Bran wouldn't be able to. I think dragons will be warged by two people: Bloodraven and Jon. Both have the warging ability, and both, which to me seems the most important, have valyrian blood.

 

What do you think?

[Richard Writhen]

I'm guessing yes. Maybe Dany can even do it.

[Protagoras]

According to me, all these dragon/blood discussions clearly points in one direction.

Do you need Valyrian blood as in "must" ie an absolute requirement? No

Do you need Valyrian blood as in "helpful" ie a component who increases the chances of success? Yes

This is regardless of warging dragons, riding dragons and/or befriending dragons.

However, it will only work so far - Jon won´t be able to warg a dragon regardless, since he is not particularly good with his powers (has he done ANY warging so far?). Bran on the other hand might succeed regardless of blood due to his extreme warging potential as well being a greenseer (Just remember how easily he submitted Varamyr in his wolf). The keyword here is of course "might".

[Lady bonehead]

I think we should be wary of using the word "warg" too loosely.  Among the wildlings, a warg is someone who has the ability to put their mind inside the mind of an animal and control that animal.  We don't know if this is precisely what the Valyrians did with dragons.

[Light a wight tonight]

To ride a dragon, maybe. It takes First Men blood to warg anything.

[AureliusAmbrosius]

3 hours ago, Lady bonehead said:

I think we should be wary of using the word "warg" too loosely.  Among the wildlings, a warg is someone who has the ability to put their mind inside the mind of an animal and control that animal.  We don't know if this is precisely what the Valyrians did with dragons.

Technically, even that's too loose. You're only a warg if you skinchange a wolf. It just happens that all the Stark kids do, so we tend to use them interchangeably.

But your point is a good one: we don't know what the Valyrians did with dragons. 

All we know is, we've never seen a dragonrider without at least a drop of dragon blood. So, you probably do need Valyrian blood to bond with a dragon - and moreso, you probably need Dragonlord blood. I mean, the Targaryens and Velaryons can do it, but they're all descended from Targaryen dragonlords. Even Sunglass and Celtigar never produced a rider. Likely, this is because dragonlords used blood magic, way back in the day, to make the bonding possible. Without doing that magic anew, or having it in your veins, you've got no chance.

[StarkofWinterfell]

Preston Jacobs: The Genetics of Dragons and War

 

[norwaywolf123]

can you warg a dragon?

[SevasTra82]

1 hour ago, norwaywolf123 said:

can you warg a dragon?

There is no indication of it ever happening in ASOIAF anywhere in the worlds history, so I'm going to say no.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

13 hours ago, Siberia said:

But since dragons only follow the command of the valyrians

You mean valyrian dragons.

13 hours ago, Siberia said:

I think dragons will be warged by two people

Nowhere in the text is ever mentioned that someone needs Valyrian blood  in order to warg a dragon.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

can you warg a dragon?

We don't know. Don' forget however that there were ancient Westerosi dragons.

6 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Preston Jacobs: The Genetics of Dragons and War

 

Seriously?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

6 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Preston Jacobs: The Genetics of Dragons and War

 

You won't gt much respect linking to that persons video's in here. Just sayin. 

[AegonBurzumOfTheLightsBane]

 

8 hours ago, AureliusAmbrosius said:

Technically, even that's too loose. You're only a warg if you skinchange a wolf. It just happens that all the Stark kids do, so we tend to use them interchangeably.

Thank you, I'm kind of surprised this many bookreaders don't seem to understand this distinction, i expect it from the Unsullied, they don't know any better. I was looking for and hoping someone would point this out.

Warg literally means "wolf" in most Scandinavian languages. The Starks are wargs, because direwolves. Varamyr is one, because 3 of his animals were wolves.

But Borroq with his boar is skinchanging. Bran in the ravens, Arya in the cat, are skinchanging. The latter two are still wargs, because Summer and Nymeria, but they are skinchangers first and foremost.

 

SO the question is did Valyrians skinchange into their Dragons.
Like someone pointed out, so far First Men blood is definitely a prerequisite. Jon and Brynden are the only ones seen to have both Valyrian blood as well..so its entirely possible they could.
Granted, a powerful enough skinchanger might give it a shot, but we heard from Varamyr how much the Shadowcat and bear fought back, a dragon has a mind of its own. Probably not as hard as a human like Thistle was, although hell, maybe more so.

I'm assuming it was a combination of blood magic and the horns at first, eventually leading to some ritual binding/infusing their blood with dragons permanently and thats why the occasional Targ woman has the scaly stillbirths.

We know the Valyrians learned how to control, and ride their dragons from the proto-Valyrian culture that built all the black stone structures and the five forts, the civilization that built Asshai in the height of its power, a city we know bigger than all the other cities combined.
This was a serious civilization, old as hell, who had dragons for a damn long time. All these ancient leaders were most likely contemporaries or even pre-dated the First Men by some time, so binding to dragons is old magic, maybe not as old as the Children but close.

 

 

So yeah, i'd say a powerful enough Skinchanger like Bran could give it a shot, he's destined to stop the Others, and bond with a gestalt consciousness of a tree God..that's no slouch power-wise..so i would except him to succeed, without having Valyrian blood as a prerequisite.

BUT up until now, i would say Valyrians had a soft-bond with the dragons, like Robb with Greywind and Jon with Ghost (not counting his sleep remote viewing at the Milkwater)

They have a passive bond to the animal passing into the supernatural, but not actively controlling it to the degree Bran or Varamyr do..
And this ability is enhanced and reinforced with the Valyrian blood which contains remnants of this ancient ritual, i think they stopped needing the blood-binding horns because of this development, it was hardwired into their bloodline.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

4 hours ago, AegonBurzumOfTheLightsBane said:

 

Thank you, I'm kind of surprised this many bookreaders don't seem to understand this distinction, i expect it from the Unsullied, they don't know any better. I was looking for and hoping someone would point this out.

Warg literally means "wolf" in most Scandinavian languages. The Starks are wargs, because direwolves. Varamyr is one, because 3 of his animals were wolves.

But Borroq with his boar is skinchanging. Bran in the ravens, Arya in the cat, are skinchanging. The latter two are still wargs, because Summer and Nymeria, but they are skinchangers first and foremost.

You seem pretty new to the forum, so I'll just politely let you know, that everyone knows this, there is just a forum wide consensus that we shall refer to all skinchanging as Warging. because it is far quicker to type.  

Spoiler

 

 

[Dorian Martell]

19 hours ago, Siberia said:

Lots of people think Bran is the one who's going to warg a dragon cause he's obviously the strongest warg in the Stark Family. But since dragons only follow the command of the valyrians,

I honestly think Bran wouldn't be able to. I think dragons will be warged by two people: Bloodraven and Jon. Both have the warging ability, and both, which to me seems the most important, have valyrian blood.

 

What do you think?

The Targs didn't skinchange dragons. The dragons are raised with targ kids 

12 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Preston Jacobs: The Genetics of Dragons and War

 

Preston Jacobs is a fool with too much time on his hands. He ignores the books and makes some bold assumptions based on some eye descriptions 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

And that is a polite way to describe him. 

[StarkofWinterfell]

7 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

You won't gt much respect linking to that persons video's in here. Just sayin. 

 

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell said:

Preston Jacobs is a fool with too much time on his hands. He ignores the books and makes some bold assumptions based on some eye descriptions 

 

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

And that is a polite way to describe him. 

 

Such vitriol against one person. What happened between you guys? His content is much better than some of the trash I see posted on here everyday.

 

[Maxxine]

If a person can warg a dragon, I don't think they would need Valyrian blood they would just need to powerful warg. Dragon riding on the other hand imo requires Valyrian blood. It's not clear if dragon-warging is possible since there is no hint of anyone ever doing it, but I want to think Bran has the potential. Just because the three-eyed crow says at the very beginning "you won't walk, but you will fly." I just want ti hold on to hope that this means flying something spectacular (like a dragon) not just the ravens around the cave that others have warged already.

[GyantSpyder]

31 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

 

 

 

Such vitriol against one person. What happened between you guys? His content is much better than some of the trash I see posted on here everyday.

 

I love Preston Jacobs, but I can see why he would be hated by a "fandom." Fandom cultures don't abide people like Preston - who base their ideas on their own research, who aren't interested in the theories of others, who go beyond disrupting consensus to just disregarding it as if it isn't there, who don't proceed from a sense of valuing the things about a work that the fandom values, and who then become very powerful voices with presumed authority that overwhelms the fandom without engaging with it. The production value and watchability of his videos and the weird dynamics of the ASOIAF audience cause him to "jump the line" with regards to fandom in ways I can see people find offensive if they are really invested in it as part of their identity.

[Dorian Martell]

8 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Such vitriol against one person. What happened between you guys? His content is much better than some of the trash I see posted on here everyday.

Being better than most of the trash posted her every day means still means the material can be worthless or less that worthless