Warcraft movie: There might be spoilers from books and the games.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On May 30, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

It would be nice if people who are White Knighting this film would not claim that critics or people who dislike this film don't know the subject matter or appreciate the film. As I said before, I'm not a new Blizzard fan. Unlike many of you younger pups, I actually played Warcraft 1: Orcs & Humans and remember how this same story was repeatedly retconned via Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and the various novelizations covering this time frame (i.e. The Last Guardian, The Rise of the Horde, etc.). I apologize for my upcoming mild spoilers. 

The editing and exposition of this film was poor. The Warcraft film requires too much foreknowledge from the audience to fill in the narrative gaps, and I suspect Warcraft fanboys don't mind because they can't recognize when they are subconsciously filling in those gaps. That's not a good thing. I remember taking my little sister to the first few Harry Potter films. When I went, I had not read any of the Harry Potter films, but it turned out that I didn't need to do so. The film had sufficient pacing, exposition, and narrative coherence. It was entertaining and fun. When I read the books, I learned what was left out, but the film could still stand on its own. That is similar with a number of book adaptations (e.g. LotR). But at the same time, there is not enough exposition in the right places. I went with my girlfriend and two of her friends, only one of whom plays Warcraft, and they found themselves somewhat confused by the film. The movie makes a big deal about "fel" magic, but does little to explain what it is apart from how it uses life energy. I managed to clarify that point to my friends with only one line: it's demonic magic. That's all I had to say, and suddenly they got it. 

There was too much fan service in the film, but sometimes that fan service made little narrative sense and only impeded the pacing, cuts, and coherence of the narrative. There was no reason, for example, for Anduin Lothar to be in Ironforge apart from showing Magni Bronzebeard and guns. There was no reason for Anduin Lothar to just show up in Stormwind for a bit of a scene just so he could be told that the king was in Goldshire. Why did the king need to be there? Why was he there instead of Stormwind? It was just one bad cut after another. 

Furthermore, why does this film need to establish an Alliance when the whole point of the First War was that there was no Alliance at all (and the nations of Lordaeron gave little shits about Stormwind's war with the orcs) if not for just blatant fan service? Didn't they learn anything from Star Wars Phantom Menace that senatorial discussions and such political meetings are a waste of the audience's time? Instead of that filler, fan service meeting, why not just have a line in which Anduin Lothar asks King Llane whether their requests for aid from the northern kingdoms of Lordaeron would be met. If you want to set up the idea of the Alliance, then you could create a contrast between King Llane's (lion) pride against the Alliance and the desire for Stormwind to handle this alone versus Anduin Lothar's pragmatic grounds-eye to the war making him aware of how big a threat the orcs present and his openness for allies. 

Furthermore, there were further story decisions that significantly slowed down the pacing and coherence of the plot. Anduin didn't need a son - something new to the movieverse - and that subplot was so woefully under developed with so little emotional investment that I had no reasons to care or feel anything during the story. It was a distraction from time that could have been spent more productively elsewhere, such as the aforementioned pacing, narrative coherence, or even just more action. Instead of showing Anduin's son, why wasn't there more footage showing Llane with his son Varian? Wouldn't that mean more for Llane's death and the Warcraft fan's knowledge of King Varian Wrynn?

Or why did Khadgar need to go Dalaran in the middle of the film? Just so we can see the anachronistically floating city of Dalaran and receive a jumbled incoherent explanation about the Guardian, Alodi, and was that supposed to be Aegwynn? In the retconned game and novelization, The Last Guardian, Khadgar gets sent by the Kirin Tor to be Medivh's apprentice. Wouldn't have following Khadgar going from Dalaran to Stormwind have provided a more coherent plot development that then allowed the audience to see the splendor of Stormwind for the first time with a greater sense of wonder while keeping the story's focus firmly in Stormwind? 

If you went into this movie thinking that you would see the First War, you would be sorely mistaken. You will instead be entreated to quick, blurry CGI fly overs of tiny CGI orcs raiding CGI villages and the occasional recognizable landmark - with little evidence of Stormwind putting up a defense - but you won't be seeing any real battles apart from just a handful of ambushes and an anticlimatic final battle and an even more anticlimatic final duel that seemed to exist just to give Lothar something to do. (And a duel that also removes one of the character-defining moments of another character.) 

I'm sorry, but sometimes you have to take fanboy glasses off so you can see this film for the epically cinematic turd that it really is. 

Okay defenders, care to address this?

[The Anti-Targ]

Interestingly I watched a Youtube review of the movie from a guy who said he has no idea bout Warcraft and isn't even a gamer, and he thought the movie was aiight. He didn't come out and say it was an actually good movie, but he said he was entertained and he was pleasantly surprised that many aspects were quite good. He is a Duncan Jones fan, and he said he could see that Duncan Jones struggled to put his personal mark on the movie and that it only comes through in places. So maybe as a Duncan Jones fan he is going in with a strong desire to see the good in the movie and overlook the bad.

Sorry I don't remember who the Youtuber was but it seems he's a regular film reviewer.

I am kinda looking forward to seeing what Angry Joe says about the movie and Jeremy Jahns. Not that I credit them as being better than your average reviewer, but as video game and movie fans they are a minority among reviewers and so I credit their perspective a little more than most RT accredited reviewers. If both of them say the movie is watchable enough to deserve a visit to the Cinema I will probably give it a crack, albeit with low expectations. Of course the flipside of that is MFC's commentary in this thread as a person who is/has been a fan of the games, and it's hard to ignore a fan of the games saying the movie is not good.

I feel like one day I will have to watch this movie for myself and form my own opinion, but I just don't know yet whether to use some of my limited cinema-going time to see it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

 

[The Anti-Targ]

Apparently the movie studio sees just 25% of the gross from China as opposed to ~50% of the gross from major western markets. So while China's box office may end up looking impressive its benefit to the studio is the equivalent to the movie grossing half that amount in the USA.

I read projections are for ~$25 million in the US for opening weekend, which isn't terrible, but it's not good either. Also the production budget is reported to be $160 million. Which is high, but not ridiculous like Prince of Persia was. But still it means it needs a global box office of about $400 million to break even.

Looks to be settling in at high teens or low 20s for Rotten Tomatoes.

Edit:

Here's a reviewer who's opinion on the movie I value for this movie as his perspective is pretty much like mine. Would love for a video game adaptation to be great movie, and I like this sort of fantasy, but I don't really know Warcraft. So he likes bits and doesn't like other bits and for me the things he didn't like are more important for what makes a good movie for me.

 

[Crazydog7]

I'm an old school RTS guy.  Personally I think WOW was an awful move if that hadn't happened we would be up to Warcraft 15 or something by now. 

You name a piece of shit movie based on a game I saw Wing Commander, Double Dragon, Super Mario Brothers and when you stack Warcraft up against that it really wasn't awful it just wasn't great either. 

Unfortunate because Warcraft is an expansive story if the production company cared enough to provide actors who didn't look like they belonged on the Scifi Channels next original presentation it might have been interesting.  I mean on account of the computers they had a production budget of 160 million dollars they couldn't spent sent some of that money on a decent script?  

The one criticism that I have seen of this film that I agree with is it plays out like the prequel to a better film we will never get to see.  Another thing that killed it was that this wasn't new material that was covered the core audience for this film the gamer is already going to know this stuff and frankly it was presented in a more entertaining format in the games 20 years ago. 

[The Anti-Targ]

I think just like people who read a book will go see the movie adaptation of the book, gamers who played the game will be happy to see the same story on the big screen, so I don't see the movie going over old ground to be a negative per se, as long as it's done well.

If the movie does play like a prequel to a better film, then there's a chance we might see that better film. The foreign box office is already up to $168 million, and with USA and 20 other significant film markets still yet to open it seems like reaching that break even mark of ~$350 million is achievable. So despite still suffering from that video game adaptation curse of getting poor reviews the movie may do well enough financially to earn a sequel. Which may be a better movie and may actually get good reviews.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

24% fresh:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/warcraft/

Anyone surprised?

[Theda Baratheon]

Watched it last night. So bizarre...felt like it was three movies crammed into one, some really dodgy melodramatic acting, ridiculous pacing issues and no genuine character growth but as someone who has been playing the game on and off for a decade I loved all the little game nods like the polymorph and the murloc but the film had terrible script and bizarre, rushed plot. I still enjoyed it though. Loved seeing genuine magic spells on screen. 

[Astromech]

17 hours ago, Crazydog7 said:

 

You name a piece of shit movie based on a game I saw Wing Commander, Double Dragon, Super Mario Brothers and when you stack Warcraft up against that it really wasn't awful it just wasn't great either. 

 

Haha, my friends and I went to the cinema because The Phantom Menace trailer was showing before it. The best part about the experience was the guy two rows ahead of us who fell asleep during it, snoring and spilling his Skittles all over the floor. That is one of the worst films I've ever seen. No way Warcraft can be that terrible.

[Corvinus85]

Wing Commander is a guilty pleasure of mine.  

Not sure if I want to see this. With all this soccer going around, I don't think I even have the time.

[Dofs]

On 30/05/2016 at 0:31 PM, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

It would be nice if people who are White Knighting this film would not claim that critics or people who dislike this film don't know the subject matter or appreciate the film. As I said before, I'm not a new Blizzard fan. Unlike many of you younger pups, I actually played Warcraft 1: Orcs & Humans and remember how this same story was repeatedly retconned via Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft, and the various novelizations covering this time frame (i.e. The Last Guardian, The Rise of the Horde, etc.). I apologize for my upcoming mild spoilers. 

The editing and exposition of this film was poor. The Warcraft film requires too much foreknowledge from the audience to fill in the narrative gaps, and I suspect Warcraft fanboys don't mind because they can't recognize when they are subconsciously filling in those gaps. That's not a good thing. I remember taking my little sister to the first few Harry Potter films. When I went, I had not read any of the Harry Potter films, but it turned out that I didn't need to do so. The film had sufficient pacing, exposition, and narrative coherence. It was entertaining and fun. When I read the books, I learned what was left out, but the film could still stand on its own. That is similar with a number of book adaptations (e.g. LotR). But at the same time, there is not enough exposition in the right places. I went with my girlfriend and two of her friends, only one of whom plays Warcraft, and they found themselves somewhat confused by the film. The movie makes a big deal about "fel" magic, but does little to explain what it is apart from how it uses life energy. I managed to clarify that point to my friends with only one line: it's demonic magic. That's all I had to say, and suddenly they got it. 

There was too much fan service in the film, but sometimes that fan service made little narrative sense and only impeded the pacing, cuts, and coherence of the narrative. There was no reason, for example, for Anduin Lothar to be in Ironforge apart from showing Magni Bronzebeard and guns. There was no reason for Anduin Lothar to just show up in Stormwind for a bit of a scene just so he could be told that the king was in Goldshire. Why did the king need to be there? Why was he there instead of Stormwind? It was just one bad cut after another. 

Furthermore, why does this film need to establish an Alliance when the whole point of the First War was that there was no Alliance at all (and the nations of Lordaeron gave little shits about Stormwind's war with the orcs) if not for just blatant fan service? Didn't they learn anything from Star Wars Phantom Menace that senatorial discussions and such political meetings are a waste of the audience's time? Instead of that filler, fan service meeting, why not just have a line in which Anduin Lothar asks King Llane whether their requests for aid from the northern kingdoms of Lordaeron would be met. If you want to set up the idea of the Alliance, then you could create a contrast between King Llane's (lion) pride against the Alliance and the desire for Stormwind to handle this alone versus Anduin Lothar's pragmatic grounds-eye to the war making him aware of how big a threat the orcs present and his openness for allies. 

Furthermore, there were further story decisions that significantly slowed down the pacing and coherence of the plot. Anduin didn't need a son - something new to the movieverse - and that subplot was so woefully under developed with so little emotional investment that I had no reasons to care or feel anything during the story. It was a distraction from time that could have been spent more productively elsewhere, such as the aforementioned pacing, narrative coherence, or even just more action. Instead of showing Anduin's son, why wasn't there more footage showing Llane with his son Varian? Wouldn't that mean more for Llane's death and the Warcraft fan's knowledge of King Varian Wrynn?

Or why did Khadgar need to go Dalaran in the middle of the film? Just so we can see the anachronistically floating city of Dalaran and receive a jumbled incoherent explanation about the Guardian, Alodi, and was that supposed to be Aegwynn? In the retconned game and novelization, The Last Guardian, Khadgar gets sent by the Kirin Tor to be Medivh's apprentice. Wouldn't have following Khadgar going from Dalaran to Stormwind have provided a more coherent plot development that then allowed the audience to see the splendor of Stormwind for the first time with a greater sense of wonder while keeping the story's focus firmly in Stormwind? 

If you went into this movie thinking that you would see the First War, you would be sorely mistaken. You will instead be entreated to quick, blurry CGI fly overs of tiny CGI orcs raiding CGI villages and the occasional recognizable landmark - with little evidence of Stormwind putting up a defense - but you won't be seeing any real battles apart from just a handful of ambushes and an anticlimatic final battle and an even more anticlimatic final duel that seemed to exist just to give Lothar something to do. (And a duel that also removes one of the character-defining moments of another character.) 

I'm sorry, but sometimes you have to take fanboy glasses off so you can see this film for the epically cinematic turd that it really is. 

That was amazing and I perfectly agree with this. The only thing I would add is hilariously lazy and bad writing towards the end of the movie. For example: Why Lothar, a king's friend, a queen's brother and the military leader was put into freaking prison for being distressed over his son's death? Why Stormwind went to war with the orcs without their best commander and warrior, even though the king said he wanted him to be with them? What's stops you, Llane? Why after Lothar and Khadgar defeat Medivh, Lothar doesn't take Khadgar with him to the battlefield? Wouldn't you think that a powerful mage would had been useful there, Anduin? Why Blackhand challenges Lothar to a duel instead of killing him (that's aside from a nonsensical scene of Lothar and his griphon owning everyone)?

I understand why the writers did all this - so that Lothar would be able to fight Medivh and than Blackhand in a 'cool' battle but it all made absolutely zero sense when it was shown onscreen. A baffling writing.

Though the major reason of the movie's failure is after all it's length. The story they wanted to tell needed to have more time. And I am not telling additional 20 minutes or something, but 2 more movies which is an interesting thing considering that I in no way thought that a First War would warrant a trilogy until seeing how much only 2 hours destroy the movie. The problem with absolutely unneeded and ridiculous fanservice is a separate one though.

[Crazydog7]

 

Also this is interesting http://www.ibtimes.com/warcraft-us-box-office-crushing-expectations-despite-bad-reviews-video-game-movie-2380914

 

3 hours ago, Korvín-Corvinus said:

Wing Commander is a guilty pleasure of mine.  

Not sure if I want to see this. With all this soccer going around, I don't think I even have the time.

 

Not to hijack the thread or anything but for such an awful movie it has a really epic opening song

 

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Crazydog7 said:

 

Not to hijack the thread or anything but for such an awful movie it has a really epic opening song

 

Yep. Like the old Battlestar Galactica

Well I went and saw Warcraft, and almost from the very beginning, I regretted it. The search for a great video game movie continues. 

[Myrddin]

Any Leeroy easter eggs?

Feel free to spoiler tag yes or no.

[Veltigar]

6 hours ago, Korvín-Corvinus said:

The search for a great video game movie continues. 

Next stop Assassin's Creed with Michael Fassbender  

[The Anti-Targ]

8 hours ago, Crazydog7 said:

 

Also this is interesting http://www.ibtimes.com/warcraft-us-box-office-crushing-expectations-despite-bad-reviews-video-game-movie-2380914

 

 

Not to hijack the thread or anything but for such an awful movie it has a really epic opening song

 

My feeling is this movie will be very front loaded. Loads of Warcraft fans are going to see this opening weekend, and I think it will fall off quickly, unless word of mouth really overcomes the bad reviews. I'll be interested in seeing the boxoffice mojo weekend report where they will give the audience ratings, which will be pretty good since it's mostly fans going to the movie, but if it's not in the B's at least then it's not a good look.

[Corvinus85]

5 hours ago, Myrddin said:

Any Leeroy easter eggs?

Feel free to spoiler tag yes or no.

Unfortunately I never played WoW, only the old strategy games, so I did not detect many easter eggs.

[The Anti-Targ]

So, what's the formula for a good video game adaptation? For the most part even genre fans acknowledge this movie has some significant filmic problems which prevents it from being good.

My feeling is that no video game story can be adapted to screen because either it's too long to condense into a movie (probably Warcraft's main problem) or it is simply not very good source material. So really an adaptation can only really take the some bits of the meta aspects of a game and then tell a completely different story. I think Ass Creed is kind of doing this with spending most of its time in the modern world. So if a decent script writer is given freedom to write an original story then the movie has a reasonable chance of being good. If a decent script writer has to adapt a video game story then there's less chance of the movie being good. If a not so good script writer has to adapt a video game then there's almost no chance the movie will be good.

But thanks mostly to China, it looks like Warcraft will be a financial success, which means at least one sequel is certain. By the end of the US opening weekend Warcraft should be over $300 million, and another $100 million from all markets is surely guaranteed.

[Dofs]

The problem with adapting a video game story is that usually such a story is structureless - it usually has a defined beginning and the end, but the middle can be anything. Adapting such a story to a 3 act movie is very difficult so you either do a TV-series or a multiple part movie series. Warcraft is no exception. As I see now, future Warcraf movies will be a hell to make if the failed to tell a simple First War movie in 2 hours. Because later stories will get a hell lot more complex and will require even more movies than the First War required (and as it appeared, it required more than 1 movie in the first place). 

Doing a completely original script based on a game setting seems pointless to me though - why bother, just do an original movie then.

[karaddin]

I still think you could do something with Mass Effect because the setting works. I'm not sure it could be the story of Shepard, all else aside there's the whole canonising one of the two Shepard (this actually applies twice, gender and paragon/renegade) that has the potential to alienate potential viewers.

Overwatch has virtually no defined story beyond lore so far, and blew up in a huge way. I think Blizzard has the chance to really drive that as a new cross media IP if they want. I mean Man Utd FC are trying to buy a team so clearly big money sees potential in the property.  You could spin that out across movie, animated series and other games.