Doran and Dorne in Season 6

[The Fattest Leech]

3 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

...

ellaria had enough time her daughter's hair to grow between season 5 and 6. what was that then a couple of weeks? a month? months? We don't know. doran could still be alive when they kill his son or if he died well before, We only know that trystane died after jaime arrived in KL because he was on the same ship that jaime had been after it start to sail away from KL. 

The bastards are also the bloodline of Nymeria and because they wanted to depose him cause they wanted war seems to be the line. Something they have been saying for a while is that people want to go to war in dorne.  Maybe to them he has become a lannister dog? 

You mentioned this and it brings up another question.

How did the SS get on the same boat with Jaime and Trystane and Bronn? It's not a huge boat, so I don't think they could have hidden. Plus, we see the SS watching the boat while they are on the docks and the one boat sails away. So that means the SS had to have a speedy boat of some type and have stayed hidden from Jaime and Co. for all that time. And how come Jaime did not address having a dead Trystane on board when he landed in KL and had his heart to heart with Cersei? And I guess in ep2 we will see the SS sneak off of the boat and start to infiltrate KL?

I see some time has to pass, and yes, hair did grow a little for many characters, even Cersei. Which Jaime never asked about.

The more I talk about Dorne, the more questions arise

[239JMFL34109]

9 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

You mentioned this and it brings up another question.

How did the SS get on the same boat with Jaime and Trystane and Bronn? It's not a huge boat, so I don't think they could have hidden. Plus, we see the SS watching the boat while they are on the docks and the one boat sails away. So that means the SS had to have a speedy boat of some type and have stayed hidden from Jaime and Co. for all that time. And how come Jaime did not address having a dead Trystane on board when he landed in KL and had his heart to heart with Cersei? And I guess in ep2 we will see the SS sneak off of the boat and start to infiltrate KL?

I see some time has to pass, and yes, hair did grow a little for many characters, even Cersei. Which Jaime never asked about.

The more I talk about Dorne, the more questions arise

That is the legit how did that work moment that could have been explained in a line or two without much of a problem that they completely ignore.

Again trystane has to die after jaime gets to KL. So last time jamie was on the boat trystane is alive cause he dies as the boat leaves.  Why he did not kill him? maybe jaime thinks this is tyrion attack? or etc.. doran could have killed jaime and marcella then sent their bodies back if he wanted too. So to jamie it could not have been him or he would have just kill them already? 

also no, i think that those sand snakes are leaving king landing and heading toward varys and tyrion. Dany would make a great ally to them to take on the lannisters. She might not Care but i could see them going to try to get her help. 

[blckp]

dorne attacks KL,

lannisters destroys them

tyrell/margaery destroys lannisters

 

 

[Ser Gareth]

8 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Extremely doubtful. Aegon's going to be the one to give Daenerys a challenge for the Iron Throne.

Hence "a mummer's dragon is what you get to fight the hero"

No one on team Lannister is really a hero so Aegon is Dany's personal foe

Also you know the mummer's dragon showed up as a lie that Dany has to slay 

youre just going to have to accept that the show is making huge departures 

I don't think they're huge departures.  Aegon, the Mummer's Dragon is not a huge departure.  Because the story is basically Man vs The Others.  That's the story.  It's been directly said a few times now that the squabbles between men (and women!) are meaningless.

The most important thing from here on in is that the major human players in that fight against the Others are the same in the TV show and the books.  The books will never be finished so we need to see how the main story plays out to get some sort of closure.  Everything else has become ultimately expendable.

[Neds Secret]

6 hours ago, Stonelands said:

Surely his "We're going to take everything they've taken from us and more." line kind of implies that he intends to hold Dorne and the Sand Snakes accountable. You'd think he would want Trystane for this purpose.

The sand snarks already killed Trystane for the Lannisters, Jaime was super efficient in that, job done!

[The Snark of Winterfell]

 

12 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

You mentioned this and it brings up another question.

How did the SS get on the same boat with Jaime and Trystane and Bronn? It's not a huge boat, so I don't think they could have hidden. Plus, we see the SS watching the boat while they are on the docks and the one boat sails away. So that means the SS had to have a speedy boat of some type and have stayed hidden from Jaime and Co. for all that time. And how come Jaime did not address having a dead Trystane on board when he landed in KL and had his heart to heart with Cersei? And I guess in ep2 we will see the SS sneak off of the boat and start to infiltrate KL?

I see some time has to pass, and yes, hair did grow a little for many characters, even Cersei. Which Jaime never asked about.

The more I talk about Dorne, the more questions arise

Agreed.

So sorry just venting.

D&D raped and murdered the Dornish plot like the Mountain raped Elia and murdered her children.

Nothing made sense going back to season 5.

I thought Oberyn said to Cersei, "you are lucky your daughter is in Dorne, we do not hurt little girls in Dorne."  Well his daughters apparently feel differently about this.

Why were the sandsnakes able to see off Jamie and Myrcella?  Why didn't Jaimie turn the ship around when Myrcella was killed when they were still in view of the shore (I can understand some plausible explanations for this)?

Exactly as you said, they saw them off at the dock and now they are in KL killing Trystene?  Jamie was not in a huge boat and they were followed by a boat all that way and then boarded without anyone seeing anything, the only explanation is that the ships crew and captain were in on the plot and the SS can sail like the wind.  And then Nym wants to kill Trystene with a whip at close quarters when he has a sword.

And of course the lame deaths of Doran and Hotah with all their guards doing absolutely nothing.  So Ellaria Sand is a paramour and has no claim to the dornish throne.  The Sandsnakes are bastard born that killed their uncle and the other great houses in Dorne are going to be cool with this coup.

The whole Dornish plot was a disaster.

 

 

[Miley the Monstrous]

Ellaria is going to give the "fire and blood" speech but of course she won't mention "fire and blood" because what does that mean?

Instead she'll say something like "Dorne was funded by Strong Women™ and Strong Women™ should stand together (because Taylor Swift said so!)" and so she'll send Tyene (possibly along with Bronn) to Meereen to get Dany, another Strong Woman™. Hijinks ensue, we get a Tyrion-Bronn reunion, and DnD can pat themselves on the back for being omg so feminizt!

As someone who hated Dorne in the books I'm actually impressed by how much worse DnD made it. My hat's off to them. 

[Cas Stark]

14 hours ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

That is the legit how did that work moment that could have been explained in a line or two without much of a problem that they completely ignore.

Again trystane has to die after jaime gets to KL. So last time jamie was on the boat trystane is alive cause he dies as the boat leaves.  Why he did not kill him? maybe jaime thinks this is tyrion attack? or etc.. doran could have killed jaime and marcella then sent their bodies back if he wanted too. So to jamie it could not have been him or he would have just kill them already? 

also no, i think that those sand snakes are leaving king landing and heading toward varys and tyrion. Dany would make a great ally to them to take on the lannisters. She might not Care but i could see them going to try to get her help. 

Why would Dany want crazy kinslaying, innocent teenager killing "allies"?  

If they send both "Yara" and the sand snakes to Meereen the whole thing will turn into Battle of the Zena Warrior Princesses.  I can't imagine the level of stupidity that would be caused by these 3 plots meeting up. 

[Miley the Monstrous]

8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Why would Dany want crazy kinslaying, innocent teenager killing "allies"?  

If they send both "Yara" and the sand snakes to Meereen the whole thing will turn into Battle of the Zena Warrior Princesses.  I can't imagine the level of stupidity that would be caused by these 3 plots meeting up. 

Yara's halfway there, what with her making out with a topless girl. Xena wishes!

 

[Rhollo]

The most ridiculous part of all of this is, that in their efforts to avenge Oberyn, Elia and her children, Ellaria and the SS have killed every important character in Dorne except the one Lannister who actually had a part in it.

They didn't even TRY to target Jamie, despite having easy access to him for at least a few days. His plot armor was made of adamant.

[Darksky]

Jaime's letter to Doran

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/objects-from-dorne

BTW I like D+D trolling the book fanbase like pros.

Doran's a red herring whose supposed masterplan is dumb. He wanted to marry his children off to the Targaryen siblings but didn't do anything to make sure those two live until that day. They'd seen no covert support from him. What did he do when Dany was about to be married off to a Khal? Nothing. What did he do afterwards? Nothing. What did he do after Viserys died? Nothing. Did he think everything would fall into place on their own?  4-5 books later, he decides to put his plan into motion. This time fAegon is in his sights, besides Dany. If there was no fAegon, what would he have done? How had he not known about fAegon before? Was it like a 'oh wowza, another Targ showed up, must adjust' moment for him? And what did he plan to achieve from these marriages anyway? Not like Targs have any power in Westeros anymore.

He wants vengeance but not war. Hw would he imagine it goes down then? He's done nothing against the Lannisters since Bobbellion. He does however help them by marrying Trystane off to Myrcella. He's weak, inconsistent and not particularly logical in his thinking.

[BalerionTheCat]

Dorne is going completely stupid. Ellaria says she wants to avenge her family. And yet she kills two of her own. D&D have made a weak, unsubtle, boring, Doran. In the books he is not. The SS are still more simplified, cartoonish. D&D are only measuring the value of their work by the number of people they kill per episode, the number of beheading and swords thru the head. If everything was like Dorne, I believe D&D could finish the story with just two or three episode more.

It reminds me of Stannis storyline, probably cut before its real conclusion. I really wonder how much D&D know about GRRM plans for the end of his story.

[239JMFL34109]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Why would Dany want crazy kinslaying, innocent teenager killing "allies"?  

If they send both "Yara" and the sand snakes to Meereen the whole thing will turn into Battle of the Zena Warrior Princesses.  I can't imagine the level of stupidity that would be caused by these 3 plots meeting up. 

I never said she would join with them but that they would try to get her as an ally.  she already has a kinslayer ally in tyrion.  

Honestly i expect A sand snake to die to dragon. 

[Ser Gareth]

18 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

But what I meant was, other showrunners/producers, have also made comments that the show, as an entirety, is starting where it left off. Also, this seems to be confusing other people as well, reviewers and viewers alike.

How would you place the timeline?

When they cut the other part of the story, they cut the links and the visuals that tell the story. Clearly it left many questioning the process of it all, which detracts from the show.

Ellaria had to have her support last season. How the hell would she have been able to rally and convince the entirety of the surrounding guards to just sit there as she attacked this early in the season?

And why would anyone in Dorne be ok with a paramour and a few bastards killing the final bloodline of Nymeria... which essentially is murder and usurping?

Dorne are thirsty for revenge.  They loved Oberyn.  Doran was not popular.  Sandsnakes are Oberyn's kids.  It's actually not that big a stretch within the fantasy realm of Westeros.  Remember Dorne is generally ridiculous in the books too.  There are a fair few ridiculous characters in the books, and the sand snakes are among them.

[Ser Gareth]

40 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Dorne is going completely stupid. Ellaria says she wants to avenge her family. And yet she kills two of her own. D&D have made a weak, unsubtle, boring, Doran. In the books he is not. The SS are still more simplified, cartoonish. D&D are only measuring the value of their work by the number of people they kill per episode, the number of beheading and swords thru the head. If everything was like Dorne, I believe D&D could finish the story with just two or three episode more.

It reminds me of Stannis storyline, probably cut before its real conclusion. I really wonder how much D&D know about GRRM plans for the end of his story.

For the main points, everything.  Which is probably why they feel comfortable cutting many of the story lines.  Because they already know those characters aren't that important.

I genuinely think people can't see business sense either.  The show has finite resources.  It makes no sense keeping an actor on the payroll for a season or two if you know they aren't really going to contribute to the end game and aren't a POV in the books.

A prime example for me is Jojen Reed.  If Jojen paste is true then there is no reason for the show to even bother with it.  Because the main point isn't how or why he dies, it's just that he dies.  So the show can go their own way on killing him.

I have a theory that Stannis will burn Shireen because of the Westeros grayscale outbreak.  Maybe to keep the Wildlings on side or something.  Again if he dies shortly after that then ultimately it doesn't matter how or when the show killed him.  Because his most important plot device was saving the Wall from the Wildling attack.  Once that is done, he becomes expendable to the overall plot etc.

[Richard Writhen]

1 hour ago, Rhollo said:

They didn't even TRY to target Jamie, despite having easy access to him for at least a few days. His plot armor was made of adamant.

 

Totally. Rediculous, the whole thing.

[239JMFL34109]

this letter from jamie is a pro-level troll job. 

[Miley the Monstrous]

18 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Dorne are thirsty for revenge.  They loved Oberyn.  Doran was not popular.  Sandsnakes are Oberyn's kids.  It's actually not that big a stretch within the fantasy realm of Westeros.  Remember Dorne is generally ridiculous in the books too.  There are a fair few ridiculous characters in the books, and the sand snakes are among them.

Look, Dorne was terrible in the books, but even a staunch hater as myself has to admit that it at least made a modicum of sense. And yes, the SS are terribly cartoony in the books as well, but they're not the protagonists of that storyline. Dorne in the show is just lousy and lazy television and I can't justify that. 

13 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

For the main points, everything.  Which is probably why they feel comfortable cutting many of the story lines.  Because they already know those characters aren't that important.

I genuinely think people can't see business sense either.  The show has finite resources.  It makes no sense keeping an actor on the payroll for a season or two if you know they aren't really going to contribute to the end game and aren't a POV in the books.

I sort of agree with you here, tho. I don't think Dorne is going to play a big role in the endgame of the show, but that raises more questions than it answers. Like, if Dorne isn't gonna be relevant then why include it in the first place? And if they decided to include it, why not put a little more effort in the writing to at least make the characters more palatable and avoid glaring plot holes? They just don't care, that's the feeling I get. 

[The Snark of Winterfell]

 

3 hours ago, Miley the Monstrous said:

As someone who hated Dorne in the books I'm actually impressed by how much worse DnD made it. My hat's off to them. 

^couldn't agree more.

Also, what vengeance were they seeking? Tywin and the Mountain are dead.  Oberyn died in a trial by combat, man to man, straight up.

[Miley the Monstrous]

10 minutes ago, The Snark of Winterfell said:

Also, what vengeance were they seeking? Tywin and the Mountain are dead.  Oberyn died in a trial by combat, man to man, straight up.

To be fair this comes straight from the books. Doran says as much to the SS and they just don't care.