Jackson, not Hamilton to be replaced on US Currency

[lokisnow]

Jackson committed genocide with his ethnic cleansing and concentration camps policies which he enacted for the express purpose of opening the Indian lands in Georgia, Mississippi Alabama and Florida to cultivation by slaves for the enrichment of slavers.

they are going to keep this villain on the obverse of the twenty which is an insult to a true hero like Tubman. Hopefully, treasury will see the error of their ways and remove Jackson entirely from the twenty.

[DireWolfSpirit]

22 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

Jackson committed genocide with his ethnic cleansing and concentration camps policies which he enacted for the express purpose of opening the Indian lands in Georgia, Mississippi Alabama and Florida to cultivation by slaves for the enrichment of slavers.

they are going to keep this villain on the obverse of the twenty which is an insult to a true hero like Tubman. Hopefully, treasury will see the error of their ways and remove Jackson entirely from the twenty.

On the obverse? I'm assuming that means Tubman on front with Jackson on the back? Thats just obscene. I betcha Lewis Black will have a field day with that decision. 

 

[sologdin]

obverse is the front; jackson is relegated to the reverse for this one, i think.  the 5 and 10 are kinda weird, how they've compromised in similar ways, though the 20 has the most plain dialectical confrontation of representatives of servitude and emancipation.  

that's probably the way to handle these sorts of debates, such as the CSA monuments removal confrontation ongoing in new orleans at the moment, wherein the forces of sense & decency seek to decommission four items (statuary of lee, beauregard, and jeff davis, as well as monument to the battle of liberty place); maybe the best result is simply to erect counter-monuments.  the only truly gross one is jeff davis (liberty place has racist language in the text, but that's self-impeaching at this point); probably they should allow space across canal street from the monument for a davis-getting-hanged art installation, or maybe a duchamp style readymade, wherein the jeff davis monument is copied but specifically allowed to be defaced with anti-nazi graffiti by any passers-by.  

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this administration is hypersensitive to elite sensibilities

a hit broadway show changed their mind

awesome that they are replacing Jackson with a Republican gun nut

 

what a great example of poe's law.  assuming however that this is a serious contribution:

a ) "elite" in the sense described by c. wright mills, or just regular incautious usage wherein it's simply pejorative without determinable policy content?

b ) the broadway thing is related to the 10, not the 20?

c ) 100% immaterial to the determination that tubman used firearms?

d ) party identification is 100% irrelevant, considering the number of party realignments since then? 

[A True Kaniggit]

6 minutes ago, sologdin said:

probably they should allow space across canal street from the monument for a davis-getting-hanged art installation, 

I wonder, would said installation be interactive?

 

Funny thought. I can just imagine the little Jacksons on the reverse side of the $20 bills, fuming not just because they are on paper currency, but also because they were bumped to a lesser position. If they do end up keeping him on the other side, they should use a picture that make him look angry.

[Fez]

17 hours ago, lokisnow said:

I thought they stopped minting the dollar coin not because it was unpopular but because the NPR program "Planet Money" exposed a massive seignourage loophole in the dollar coin return program that allowed the unscrupulous to make a tidy profit. Congress responded to the podcast/broadcast by simply axing the dollar coin minting altogether, as it was more expedient than waiting for Treasury to make a rule change fix in the usual 19000000 year timeline of public comment rule change regulation process.

I hadn't heard that, maybe. But I only ever heard it was due to the Mint having huge stockpiles because almost no one wanted them. Also its incorrect to say they stopped minting the dollar coin altogether, its still being minted every year, its just not being released into circulation. The few still being minted go into storage and/or are sold to collectors.

And the thing is, there's been multiple dollar coins produced throughout the 20th century, each time the Mint eventually stopped or greatly cut back on production due to having too many reserves. People don't want dollar coins, whether its Eisenhower coins, Susan B. Anthony coins, Sacajawea coins, presidential coins, etc.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

You guys are really selling the Sacagawea coins short. They make amazing gifts for kids. Ask yourself,"Would 10 year old you rather get a twenty dollar bill or twenty golden coins?" 

[Maltaran]

I think the only way to make Americans accept dollar coins would be to stop printing dollar bills.

[sperry]

My only experience with $ coins was an incident in the third grade where the cafeteria lunch lady refused to believe that my Susan B. Anthony dollar coin was not a quarter.  This dispute had to be adjudicated by the teacher on lunch duty.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I like dollar coins.  Always have.

[DireWolfSpirit]

I'd like either a Mother Jones dollar coin or how about an American artist for once that would be refreshing?

Brando, George Clinton, Springsteen, Dylan, Prince, Aerosmith, Louis Armstrong, or Josephine Baker, endless possibilities. Do we really want another stinking politician for anymore coins?

[Swordfish]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I like dollar coins.  Always have.

Why?

[all swedes are racist]

as a register monkey, i will vouch for the near universal hatred of the dollar coins. people can't wait to get rid of the motherfuckers, and if i ever tried to give one back as change i'd probably get spat on.

although i'm with scot, i kinda dig em.

[lokisnow]

ah I found the loophole:

Basically, the US Mint website used to allow you to buy dollar coins with credit cards and offered free shipping for large dollar value purchases.

So people with credit cards with rewards points would buy dollar coins in bulk direct to earn rewards. Then they would take the coins to their bank and deposit them and pay off their credit card. The bank would not want thousands of dollars of dollar coins and would send them back to the federal reserve.

repeat, and travel the world for free!

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/07/13/137795995/how-frequent-fliers-exploit-a-government-program-to-get-free-trips

 

However, fez is correct that it was the buildup of over production of dollar coins that led to ending the program that required their minting: in spite of the fact that the presidential dollar coin program made a profit of 680 million while it was active people were horrified that we had to store more than a billion coins. It actually earned 1.4 billion while costing 720 million to produce and store, but NPR, the media, and congress all ignored the 680 million profit and focused on the horrific idea that there were a lot of coins sitting in storage at the federal reserve. How awful that vaults have money in them! This outrage, of course, in part, because someone decided that the 680 million in profit for the government is actually a tax. I don't really get it.

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137394348/-1-billion-that-nobody-wants

[Astromech]

If removing Hamilton from the $10 bill was already in discussion, why not at least change the 10 and add Aaron Burr to it? Could also be a subliminal anti-gun or anti-dueling message?

Dollar coins are great as collector pieces or commemorative coins for numismatists, terrible as regular currency. They are fantastic for the velocity of money. I would look for anything to purchase just to get rid of those damn coins.

 

[maarsen]

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I like dollar coins.  Always have.

One more reason to come to Canada. We not only  have a dollar coin but a two dollar coin. Not a politician on either one but a loon and a polar  bear. 

[Swordfish]

33 minutes ago, Astromech said:

If removing Hamilton from the $10 bill was already in discussion, why not at least change the 10 and add Aaron Burr to it? Could also be a subliminal anti-gun or anti-dueling message?

Dollar coins are great as collector pieces or commemorative coins for numismatists, terrible as regular currency. They are fantastic for the velocity of money. I would look for anything to purchase just to get rid of those damn coins.

 

or bring back the $2 bill.

 

Or create a $3 bill.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, Swordfish said:

Why?

I like coinage.  They make alot more sense than bills.  Coins last 20 years on average bills 2.

[Swordfish]

31 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I like coinage.  They make alot more sense than bills.  Coins last 20 years on average bills 2.

i suppose it makes more sense if you just want your currency to last a long time.  like if you're gonna store it in a can buried in your back yard or something.  But that seems utterly irrelevent if you plan to spend it or deposit it in the bank.

But I can think of no other way in which coins make 'more sense' than bills.

I get the personal preference thing...  no dispute there, people like what they like.  i for one hate the extra bulk of coins.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Coinage costs leas than bills to produce because coins are more durable.  You don't have to make as many.

[Swordfish]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Coinage costs leas than bills to produce because coins are more durable.  You don't have to make as many.

That's debateable.  There's plenty of evidence out there that it's close enough to basically be a wash.

 

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A separate, widely cited report by the Government Accountability Office estimates replacing $1 notes with $1 coins could provide $4.4 billion in “net benefits” to the federal government over 30 years.

The GAO figure works out to less than $147 million a year, or roughly a sum the entire government spends every 2.5 hours. 

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Shaun Ferrari, an assistant director at the Fed’s division of reserve bank operations and payment systems, in October previewed the upcoming central bank report at a coin conference in Berlin, according to an attendee. The gist of his argument: Coins aren’t cheaper than paper notes.

That corresponds with previous Fed critiques. “It is possible that no savings will ever be realized from the replacement of $1 notes with $1 coins,” Louise Roseman, director of the Fed’s reserve bank operations and payment systems, told the GAO last year.

Ms. Roseman’s criticisms included:

–Making coins isn’t cheaper. In fact, all of the savings would come from seigniorage, or the difference between the face value of coins and their cost of production, which the government would pocket. (Seigniorage would be greater on coins than notes because people are more likely to hold on to them, for example letting change pile up in coin jars or dresser drawers.)

–There would be a cost to the Fed, including having to build new vaults or reinforce existing vaults to store more coins.

–Coins could be easier to counterfeit than notes.

–The GAO didn’t account for potential shifts in the way consumers buy goods, such as the potential for greater use of credit cards or electronic payments.

 

Even so, you are discounting a whole boatload of other costs inherent with coins over bills.