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White Walker Question


Captain Hype Train

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Hello everyone! I've been a reader on this site for the past six months, ever since I completed books 1-5. Reading everyone's theories and thoughts really helps time go by as we await WoW and season 6 of GoT. I had a question regarding the Night's King and his fellow White Walkers. IF this question has been discussed in past threads, I apologize. 

From reading the series and topics on this site, I believe the majority of us believe the wights are mindless soldiers controlled by the White Walkers or perhaps just the Night's King himself. Since the White Walkers use some sort of magic to bring these wights back to "life", what would happen to this magic if the Night's King and his fellow White Walkers were all slain in battle? Would the wights still fight to the last man, performing their only duty they know, which is to kill? Would the wights simply fall where they stand and the magic that brought them back dissolve into nothing? Myself, can't see the wights existing without the presence of the Night's King or the White Walkers. This isn't the Walking Dead, where zombies just roam the lands looking to kill. 

With this, should the men of Westeros even fight the wights army in the open field? The battle would be pointless and impossible to win. You can't defeat an enemy that gains a man for every man of yours that they kill. I believe when the time comes, the dragon fire, valyrian steel, and the dragon glass arrow heads should all be directed at the Night's King and the other White Walkers. They must eliminate the magically element from the enemy. 

I know many of you think the only way this conflict can come to a conclusion is from some sort of pact sealed with a marriage, but that would be a little too anti-climatic for my taste. 

What do you guys think? Can the army of the dead survive without the presence of the White Walkers?

Thanks!

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Welcome to the forum! :cheers:

I hadn't considered the possibility of the wights surviving without the source of magic that reanimated them, be it the Night's King or whatever. But I think we should consider Coldhands, though, as he's still "alive" even though he's clearly got a different agenda than the other wights, so who knows. 

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Welcome. 

I lean closer to the idea that the wights would not survive without their masters so it makes sense in battle to kill the leaders first like you mentioned. 

In battle I do think emphasis will be placed on the W/W themselves as targets to kill, and the knowledge is coming through on how to kill them as the books progress. 

The wights will be fought also of course, as fire is a weapon against them and this will be known also when the time comes. 

It is a bit frustrating of course that the dead rise as wights to replace the numbers. One way to negate that I suppose is burning the dead as they fall which could prove tricky, especially if from the sky on dragon back as there is risk of burning living men to. 

It will be a messy business for sure.

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3 hours ago, Leonardo said:

 

Also the Others best weapon isn't the wights, it's the cold. The wight army isn't as insane as it in the show

I couldn't agree more. Plus it's called the long night.

http://wonderopolis.org/wonder/what-would-earth-be-like-without-the-sun

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Coldhands is likely just a meat suit, warged by Bloodraven.

It seems clear that the ability to animate corpses is some kind of corrupted version of the skinchanging talent. Consider that both Varamyr and Jon experienced extreme cold as their spirits left their dead bodies, which links the spirits of dead wargs to the cold in some way.

Without the Others, the wights would fall dead again.

 

 

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I do not think the wights would fall dead, I think they would turn into a catatonic undead person like Drago.  We saw Drago who was on the verge of death either kept physically alive or physically revived, but not his mind.  That seems to be exactly what is happening with the wights, its just that the wights are also skinchanged where Drago was not.

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3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Coldhands is likely just a meat suit, warged by Bloodraven.

It seems clear that the ability to animate corpses is some kind of corrupted version of the skinchanging talent. Consider that both Varamyr and Jon experienced extreme cold as their spirits left their dead bodies, which links the spirits of dead wargs to the cold in some way.

Without the Others, the wights would fall dead again.

 

 

Coldhands is one of the 79 sentinels. The story is told right before he shows up and fire perfectly, as it explains why he still served the watch as best he can. "Bound in death" for his desertion in life.

 

One thing there been clear to Me from the beginning is that the other's move is One of desperation; they're about to be driven extinct along with the children and the giants, and aren't going to take it lying down. They're not evil, they're just a different form of life that opposed man's.

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5 minutes ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

Well, I believe in this scenario the wights would still fight, but they tottaly lose their abities to obtain more numbers to their side as they advance. So, they would still attack, but the persons they would kill wouldn't' turn themselves in wights. This ability is cleary from the Others/WW

 

But, the OP asks if 'all' walkers, along with who is running the show in the WW camp are slain. Since it is the Walkers/Others etc. who are animating these dead guys, be it by skinchanging, magic/necromancy etc., when they are 'all' destroyed, what would keep the wights moving attacking etc? 

Note, I've said whoever is running the show in the WW camp out of reluctance to use the term Nights King.

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45 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Coldhands is one of the 79 sentinels. The story is told right before he shows up and fire perfectly, as it explains why he still served the watch as best he can. "Bound in death" for his desertion in life.

 

One thing there been clear to Me from the beginning is that the other's move is One of desperation; they're about to be driven extinct along with the children and the giants, and aren't going to take it lying down. They're not evil, they're just a different form of life that opposed man's.

Coldhands is very likely not one of the 79 sentinels, as they abandoned their oaths, which means they 'said their words', which means that if CH were one of them, he could pass through the Black Gate, but he cannot... 

I could see him being the father of the sentinel that fled with his brothers, but then we have to explain why he's been made to be undead himself.  His name suggests he was killed by a wight and the blood pooled as it did with the other brothers in the story current, but was then brought back by either a R'hllor priest or some other form of necromancy.  He aids indeed, but I think he probably isn't a black brother otherwise I don't see the point for the exposition with Sam at the Nightfort.

To the OP: good question, I'd tend to agree that the wights' animation or warged bodies would cease to function without their controllers, I don't see a hive mentality as suggested above.

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24 minutes ago, Ser Knute said:

Coldhands is very likely not one of the 79 sentinels, as they abandoned their oaths, which means they 'said their words', which means that if CH were one of them, he could pass through the Black Gate, but he cannot... 

I could see him being the father of the sentinel that fled with his brothers, but then we have to explain why he's been made to be undead himself.  His name suggests he was killed by a wight and the blood pooled as it did with the other brothers in the story current, but was then brought back by either a R'hllor priest or some other form of necromancy.  He aids indeed, but I think he probably isn't a black brother otherwise I don't see the point for the exposition with Sam at the Nightfort.

To the OP: good question, I'd tend to agree that the wights' animation or warged bodies would cease to function without their controllers, I don't see a hive mentality as suggested above.

 

24 minutes ago, Ser Knute said:

Coldhands is very likely not one of the 79 sentinels, as they abandoned their oaths, which means they 'said their words', which means that if CH were one of them, he could pass through the Black Gate, but he cannot... 

I could see him being the father of the sentinel that fled with his brothers, but then we have to explain why he's been made to be undead himself.  His name suggests he was killed by a wight and the blood pooled as it did with the other brothers in the story current, but was then brought back by either a R'hllor priest or some other form of necromancy.  He aids indeed, but I think he probably isn't a black brother otherwise I don't see the point for the exposition with Sam at the Nightfort.

To the OP: good question, I'd tend to agree that the wights' animation or warged bodies would cease to function without their controllers, I don't see a hive mentality as suggested above.

Well he's clearly a wight, whichbisbwhy he can't pass. I'll agree the father is a likely candidate, but the son is just as likely

 

His cloak denotes he's a black brother

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18 minutes ago, Ser Knute said:

Coldhands is very likely not one of the 79 sentinels, as they abandoned their oaths, which means they 'said their words', which means that if CH were one of them, he could pass through the Black Gate, but he cannot... 

I always figured that ColdHands was at one point a black brother in his life, whether or not he was one of the 79 I don't know.

IMO he couldn't pass through the gate because he was undead and couldn't get through the magics of the Wall.

its probably not likely, but imagine if CH was at one time a regular wight and he got some mental capability back because whatever WW reanimated him died. If the WW do end up falling in battle we would have a bunch of Coldhands walking around up north.

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1 hour ago, The Dames do Moan said:

I always figured that ColdHands was at one point a black brother in his life, whether or not he was one of the 79 I don't know.

IMO he couldn't pass through the gate because he was undead and couldn't get through the magics of the Wall.

What about the two wights (I forget their names at the moment) who tried to kill Jeor Mormont? 

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28 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

What about the two wights (I forget their names at the moment) who tried to kill Jeor Mormont? 

I don't know , trust me that's something I've always wondered ha. We always hear that there's these magics in the wall but they get right on through. Maybe because the NW brothers escorted them through, but that's just a shot in the dark.

maybe CH was a NW brother but desertered so he could no longer get through the Black Gate. I just think at one point he was a brother.

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Another possibility is that they were just dead bodies while they were carried past the Wall and weren't reanimated until they were on the southern side. Problem with that is that it would mean that the reanimation magic of the Others could penetrate the Wall so why not the Others themselves?

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26 minutes ago, Red Man Racey said:

Another possibility is that they were just dead bodies while they were carried past the Wall and weren't reanimated until they were on the southern side. Problem with that is that it would mean that the reanimation magic of the Others could penetrate the Wall so why not the Others themselves?

Those 2 wights already had bright blue eyes when the bodies were found, so it is likely they were already turned.  Lost Melnibonean has a long thread about this.  Analyzing the weather he believes the WW's were able to "put them to sleep" with warm weather and wake them up with the freezing cold Jon feels when they are attacking.

I agree with others who suggest that because they were carried through it worked, but they would not have been able to walk through with their own strength.

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36 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Those 2 wights already had bright blue eyes when the bodies were found, so it is likely they were already turned.  Lost Melnibonean has a long thread about this.  Analyzing the weather he believes the WW's were able to "put them to sleep" with warm weather and wake them up with the freezing cold Jon feels when they are attacking.

I agree with others who suggest that because they were carried through it worked, but they would not have been able to walk through with their own strength.

The first time we see the bodies is south of the Wall, but they do already have the blue eyes at that point so I think you're right that they were already reanimated and possibly just playing dead. This would mean that either wights have a fairly high level of cunning and strategy or they were being directly controlled. Yes they knew were the Lord Commander's room was and went for him so they have at least some memories, but to employ strategy like waiting for everyone to fall asleep before mounting an attack indicates a higher level of planning and intelligence.

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9 hours ago, Ser Knute said:

Coldhands is very likely not one of the 79 sentinels, as they abandoned their oaths, which means they 'said their words', which means that if CH were one of them, he could pass through the Black Gate, but he cannot... 

 

He cannot passthrough the gate because the wall is warded against the undead, much like the CTOF cave and the outer wall of Storm's end

7 hours ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

What about the two wights (I forget their names at the moment) who tried to kill Jeor Mormont? 

they came through the wall because they were dragged on a sled by living people 

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