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Nitisha

What did Catelyn do after taking Brienne's sword?

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After talking to Jaime, Catelyn calls for Brienne and asks her for her sword.

Did she kill Jaime?but then what would happen to Sansa ??

its the last Catelyn chapter so is it explained in the next book....

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I just opened the third book and saw a chapter of JAIME in which he is free

is Catelyn mad?

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I saw it and nonetheless I take her for mad... She's a bold and just woman, but if truth be told, she began to annoy me in AGoT already, because she has such a strong inclination for making exactly the wrong decision. :(

First she dwells for days or even weeks at Bran's sickbed, turning her back on the rest of her children and her housekeeping duties, who would need her surely more than Bran in this situation does.
 

Spoiler

 

Second she stays with Robb, who doesn't even want her by his side, and with her dying father in Riverrun, leaving her youngest children father- and motherless back in the North, and by now we know how this ended...

... and now this foolish decision of freeing Jaime as well! I really can't understand how she could give this hostage to fortune!

But ok, I just started reading ASoS - maybe it will turn well anyway? Having just read Tyrion I, I have serious doubts about it... :( 

 

 

Edited by Moving Watch

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On 20 August 2016 at 7:30 PM, Moving Watch said:

I saw it and nonetheless I take her for mad... She's a bold and just woman, but if truth be told, she began to annoy me in AGoT already, because she has such a strong inclination for making exactly the wrong decision. :(

First she dwells for days or even weeks at Bran's sickbed, turning her back on the rest of her children and her housekeeping duties, who would need her surely more than Bran in this situation does.
 

  Hide contents

 

Second she stays with Robb, who doesn't even want her by his side, and with her dying father in Riverrun, leaving her youngest children father- and motherless back in the North, and by now we know how this ended...

... and now this foolish decision of freeing Jaime as well! I really can't understand how she could give this hostage to fortune!

But ok, I just started reading ASoS - maybe it will turn well anyway? Having just read Tyrion I, I have serious doubts about it... :( 

 

 

I agree!

they could have sent a party of stark men in disguise to Kings Landing,who could have brought Sansa safely and secretly to riverrun. Then robb could have executed Jaime!

catelyn spoils it all

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She spoils it all, I agree. Nevertheless, I would prefer an exchange between Jaime and Sansa (btw. secret plots aren't the Starks' style at all), because I gradually came to like Jaime in the course of reading. He may be mouthy and snarky (which is surpassed by Tyrion, anyway), impertinent and ruthless, but he knows what it is to love, and beneath all that I feel he has a gentle heart. 

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GRRM pushes for us to regard Catelyn in this light of making detrimental decisions. She's imo a bit of a scapegoat.

Catelyn in Bran's room: it's a completely normal response of her to forget about everyone except for Bran. It's not a healthy response, certainly not for Rickon, but it's a very understandable reaction. How many parents who have a missing child or deadly ill in hospital tend to rely on the assumption that the other children will do fine without getting her or his attention for weeks? GRRM then seems to suggest she's to blame for not having appointed a new master-of-horse, captain-of-the-guards and steward. Had these jobs been filled then the catspaw probably would not have been able to hide for that long. Then again, Ned Stark, Luwin, Rodrik, Robb and others did not seem to think it was a presseing matter either. None of them thought it were positions that needed to be filled even prior to Ned leaving, before Bran fell (he falls the day before Ned, daughters and Bran were supposed to leave). They were all going to leave and let Cat and Robb and Aemon sort it out for themselves. Then Bran falls and Cat is in an obvious despairing state where she can't function for a fortnight, while Ned is still there. They could all see how she was, and realize she was not in any capacity to make decisions on finding substitutes. The essential is that nobody seemed to think that preparing follow-ups for these 3 positions were necessary when everything was ok, when things were going wrong, and when Cat was in an obvious mental paralysis (which is an absolute normal reaction). So, blaming Cat more for that than the others is well a skewed view.

Catelyn taking Tyrion: let us imagine that she did not apprehend him (she should have returned by ship imo though). What would have happened as soon as Tyrion arrived in KL? Ned himself would have arrested or confronted him, especially since he had resigned as Hand over the Dany assassination business and planned to leave with Sansa and Arya on the KR. Ned's resignation and plans to leave KL would have happened independently to what Cat had done or not. And he would have apprehended Tyrion himself, with the same dire results.This is the reason why Ned tells Jaime that Cat did it on his orders imo. Nor could she have been in the know that Lysa has become pretty much a nutcase. 

Catelyn going with Robb: without her Robb would not have been able to cross the Twins and liberate RR. Robb made the decision to war South without her.  He would have been forced to face Tywin along the KR's side of the Green Fork. It is also Robb who decided to let Theon go home, against Cat's advice. Nor is Cat responsible for the fuck ups of Luwin and Cassel up North. And Reek, aka Ramsay, was plotting against the Starks anyway. 

Catelyn and Jaime: the Karstarks are out for blood, more and more. They want to kill him. Edmure's off at the Fords and Robb's in the Westerlands. Tyrion's stunt with Cleos Frey and the disguised escort attempting to rescue Jaime, only made the situation more dangerous. Men are getting drunk on victory over the Fords, Karstarks are about to return and wanting blood. She has a choice to either risk Jaime to die by the hands of a Karstark or make use of him. A dead hostage is of use to noone.

The Bran-room scene and the burning library and Cat thinking about the loss of all those ancient books hint at Homeric tragedy, like the Illiad. One of the main messages by Homer is that when the gods mingle with the affairs and fates of people, then you can't change the tide. Achilles cannot alter his destiny no matter how much he tries to avoid it. And GRRM does this especially in Cat's arc and the Starks. Cat does make several dubious decisions, and yet the war was going to happen anyway, because there are other actors who behave, plot and decide independently of her (Varys, LF, Cersei, Ramsay, Balon,...). Meanwhile her good decisions are undone by the mistakes and betrayals of others. You can see it as this gigantic set-up of domino stones standing, to make the new world record, and usually if some domino trail fails to drop, there are numerous other pathways that have been set up to keep it going.

Her decisions ultimately change little, nor is she solely responsible, ever. And while she makes teeth grinding decisions, she also makes brilliant decisions in the situations she's put in.

 

Edited by sweetsunray

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 10:00 AM, Moving Watch said:

I saw it and nonetheless I take her for mad... She's a bold and just woman, but if truth be told, she began to annoy me in AGoT already, because she has such a strong inclination for making exactly the wrong decision. :(

First she dwells for days or even weeks at Bran's sickbed, turning her back on the rest of her children and her housekeeping duties, who would need her surely more than Bran in this situation does.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Second she stays with Robb, who doesn't even want her by his side, and with her dying father in Riverrun, leaving her youngest children father- and motherless back in the North, and by now we know how this ended...

... and now this foolish decision of freeing Jaime as well! I really can't understand how she could give this hostage to fortune!

But ok, I just started reading ASoS - maybe it will turn well anyway? Having just read Tyrion I, I have serious doubts about it... :( 

 

 

lol, and don't forget her need to avoid the Kings Road on the way south so no one knows she is in KL, but then she happily traipses home on it like it's no big deal. And then snatches Tyrion and sets the realm to war with nothing for proof but a dagger and Littlefinger's word. Poor, sad woman.

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You all need to cut Catelyn some slack. While her decision to travel on the Kings Road is kinda stupid (I don't remember if it had something to do with Sir Rodrik's sea sickness). I've always viewed her as one of the strongest female characters in the traditional sense. I admit she has a taste for melodrama but if you're going to blame her for the WOT5K why not blame her sons who never listened to her. Robb needed her more that Bran and Rickon - Robb was barely a man of age when this war started and he was fighting a war where she was born and where she had spent half her life. So should she stay with her children who are well guarded, surrounded by trustworthy people, in a strong castle, tutored by a maester or with her son who is campaigning in a foreign land, but a land she knows and is known by all the important people? As for releasing Jaime, this further proves my point that Theon is mostly responsible for the downfall of the Starks in the WOT5K (the taking of Winterfell led to Robb forsaking his vows to Frey and Catelyn releasing Jaime).

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On 9/1/2016 at 7:04 PM, Nitisha said:

... and now this foolish decision of freeing Jaime as well! I really can't understand how she could give this hostage to fortune!

This will turn out to be a good thing, since it's from this release that we began to see the story from Jaime's POVs, which hella lot help make him a more likable person in the long run. His are one of the more entertaining chapters, but that's just my opinion.

 On Catelyn, she did make a lot of poor life choices which eventually escalated into a real war. But I think the only crime she had committed was to trust Littlefinger like he was 'her brother'. With not a single doubt. Pfff even Littlefinger said he couldn't be trusted. She and Ned were just too naive to be involved in this game. 

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