Maesters Vs. Dragons: How much could the Citadel have been involved in the demise o the dragons?

[Not_A_Quokka]

To me there's not been much said about this topic.  We know two things for certain - the dragons went extinct over a hundred years ago (until Dany birthed three of course).  And we know the maesters of the Citadel are strongly opposed to magic, sorcery and dragons. In fact it's worth a novice's life to speak too much, too seriously or too often about such matters. COULD the citadel have had more to do with the dragons going away then appears?  And how might they react to Dany's living dragons?  Send a Faceless man after her or some such? 

[Melifeather]

I think you are right to suspect a Citadel conspiracy, and I offer up the following evidence: 

The known members of the Kingswood Brotherhood:

Simon Toyne = the leader 
Smiling Knight = Jaime called him “the Mountain of my boyhood. Half as big, but twice as mad.”
Wenda the White Fawn = potentially Lyanna Stark, sick with the pox
Oswyn Longneck the Thrice-Hanged - somehow I think this refers to a future hanging by Lady Stoneheart
Big Belly Ben, nearly killed Lord Crakehall, but was deterred by Jaime. Ben escaped capture.
Fletcher Dick = unknown fate
Ulmer = captured and sent to the Wall

A google search revealed that Simon Toyne is a British author whose best selling trio of books are titled: Sanctus, The Key, and The Tower.

A short summary from the back cover of Sanctus:

In the oldest inhabited place on earth, atop a mountain known as the Citadel, a Vatican-like city-state towers above the city of Ruin in modern-day Turkey. The eyes of the world are on a group that has prized its secrets above all things. For the Sancti - the monks living inside the Citadel - this could mean the end of everything they have built and protected for millennia…and they will stop at nothing to keep what is theirs.

You could almost make a sentence out of the three books and read it as, "the Sanctus is the key to the tower."

I flesh out a larger argument for this in my analysis of The Queenmaker, AFFC Chapter 21. You can read it by clicking the link in my signature.

[MGraham]

On 5/7/2016 at 3:15 PM, Feather Crystal said:

Wenda the White Fawn = potentially Lyanna Stark, sick with the pox

I don't know enough about this to judge, what brings you to this conclusion?

 

On the main subject, think you are right to suspect the Maesters of conspiracy.

This may have had something to do with the Dragons but i don't think it will be because of hatred of magic etc. I think they are looking to influence the powerful and exert power themselves by advice etc and rewriting history (we have several examples where Maesters writing history's are incorrect or contradictory) in much the same was as priest did in the Dark/Middle ages (and beyond) 

As the Dragons set the Targ's apart from the other lords the Maesters where trying to control they may well have tried to limit their influence, counselling that the dragons be locked away etc to keep people safe. Locking away the Dragons likely limited their growth which led to their decline.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, MGraham said:

 

On May 7, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Feather Crystal said:

Wenda the White Fawn = potentially Lyanna Stark, sick with the pox

I don't know enough about this to judge, what brings you to this conclusion?

 

 

 

I have an inversion theory, the bulk of which can be read by clicking the links in my signature, but in particular there's an Arianne chapter called The Queenmaker where Myrcella is in Dorne and she has her handmaiden Rosamund with her. Myrcella and Rosamund swapped identities when she left for Dorne. It is this same handmaiden that Ser Arys draws fake red spots on her face and she's supposed to pretend to be Myrcella again while he sneaks the real Myrcella out of Sunspear and takes her to the Shandytown well where he meets up with Arianne, Darkstar, Spotted Sylva, Garin, and Drey. I believe that this is an inversion chapter about Lyanna, and Arianne's friends represent the Kingswood Brotherhood. We've got fake Myrcella with spots, Spotted Sylva, and Wenda the White Fawn. Fawns are also spotted. Merrett Frey says Wenda the White Fawn was a poxy bitch and burned a tattoo of a fawn on the cheek of his ass. I suspect Wenda was Lyanna, and if my theory is correct she had the pox. 

[MGraham]

Read through some of the posts...

 

Just to deep for me i'm afraid, thanks for explaining.

[Ser Hyle]

On 5/8/2016 at 7:21 PM, Feather Crystal said:

 

I have an inversion theory, the bulk of which can be read by clicking the links in my signature, but in particular there's an Arianne chapter called The Queenmaker where Myrcella is in Dorne and she has her handmaiden Rosamund with her. Myrcella and Rosamund swapped identities when she left for Dorne. It is this same handmaiden that Ser Arys draws fake red spots on her face and she's supposed to pretend to be Myrcella again while he sneaks the real Myrcella out of Sunspear and takes her to the Shandytown well where he meets up with Arianne, Darkstar, Spotted Sylva, Garin, and Drey. I believe that this is an inversion chapter about Lyanna, and Arianne's friends represent the Kingswood Brotherhood. We've got fake Myrcella with spots, Spotted Sylva, and Wenda the White Fawn. Fawns are also spotted. Merrett Frey says Wenda the White Fawn was a poxy bitch and burned a tattoo of a fawn on the cheek of his ass. I suspect Wenda was Lyanna, and if my theory is correct she had the pox. 

You still haven't told us why you suspect this. Is it just a hunch? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lyanna was 14 at the Harrenhall tourney that occurred how many years after this outlaw business started - 3/4? Nobody seems to remember Wenda as a little girl. Secondly, Lyanna grew up in Winterfell did she not? Wouldn't there be mention of her disappearing for a year or more so she could travel all the way to the Crownlands and be an Outlaw for a while, then return to Winterfell just in time to be betrothed to Robert Baratheon? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Melifeather]

14 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said:

You still haven't told us why you suspect this. Is it just a hunch? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lyanna was 14 at the Harrenhall tourney that occurred how many years after this outlaw business started - 3/4? Nobody seems to remember Wenda as a little girl. Secondly, Lyanna grew up in Winterfell did she not? Wouldn't there be mention of her disappearing for a year or more so she could travel all the way to the Crownlands and be an Outlaw for a while, then return to Winterfell just in time to be betrothed to Robert Baratheon? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You can read more about my theory by clicking here.

[Ser Hyle]

14 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

You can read more about my theory by clicking here.

You could have answered a couple simple questions, but instead you ask me to read a few thousand words of unsubstantiated fan fiction you're trying to pass as a theory. A big sarcastic thank you.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Ser Hyle said:

You could have answered a couple simple questions, but instead you ask me to read a few thousand words of unsubstantiated fan fiction you're trying to pass as a theory. A big sarcastic thank you.

I apologize, but it was off topic for the current discussion. I didn't want to derail this thread.

I never meant to imply that Lyanna was part of an outlaw gang, but I also believe the Kingswood Brotherhood was a pseudonym or a copycat group of conspirators. The use of the name Simon Toyne by our author is suspicious, since he's a British author who wrote a trilogy of books named Sanctus, the Key, and the Tower, and the story centers around a group of monks in a Citadel with a world-wide conspiracy that would do anything to keep secret.