X-Men Apocalypse: continued

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

56 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

Juggernaut feels too small to me to be an adversary for the entire X-men team (even if they're just teenagers at this point). I mean, I don't need a "destroy the world" villain either but he's never quite crossed the boundary beyond glorified henchman to me. In what storyline does he carry a 2 hour film?

I could see him in a Deadpool movie.. but mostly because he's got a similar demeanor to Omega Red which would clash with Deadpool's antics and wit.

 

But the real solution for the X-men franchise is for Fox to give them to Marvel like Sony did with Spiderman. 

Yeah, power level wise he's a match for the whole team, but ultimately he's a hot-headed dummy. You'd have to have some mastermind pulling his strings, for sure. He would make a delightful Deadpool foil for sure. I like that idea as well.

[red snow]

I think the X-men are a big enough franchise to work perfectly on their own. In fact i think it would be detrimental to Marvel as they'd ignore the potentialy in all their other IP and just churn out x-men and the existing franchises.

Fox need to get their asses in gear and make a cinematic universe with the X-men franchises. Have the Starjammers/Shiar for cosmic - use Majick and the various magic related mutants for Dr Strange like things. New mutants for a school vibe. X-force for a military action film. There's a mutant version of pretty much any other marvel frachise. I wonder if Fox has Ka-zar and the Savage Land?

It looks like Fox are starting in that direction. The mis-step was in trying to incorporate Fant4stic but I thik/hope they learned their lesson with Deadpool.

[The Wolves]

25 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think the X-men are a big enough franchise to work perfectly on their own. In fact i think it would be detrimental to Marvel as they'd ignore the potentialy in all their other IP and just churn out x-men and the existing franchises.

Fox need to get their asses in gear and make a cinematic universe with the X-men franchises. Have the Starjammers/Shiar for cosmic - use Majick and the various magic related mutants for Dr Strange like things. New mutants for a school vibe. X-force for a military action film. There's a mutant version of pretty much any other marvel frachise. I wonder if Fox has Ka-zar and the Savage Land?

It looks like Fox are starting in that direction. The mis-step was in trying to incorporate Fant4stic but I thik/hope they learned their lesson with Deadpool.

I agree with this. 

I do wish that we could have gotten Storm  in the Black Panther movie though. I bet her character would get better writing and characterization than any X-Men movie we have seen so far. 

[red snow]

14 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

I agree with this. 

I do wish that we could have gotten Storm  in the Black Panther movie though. I bet her character would get better writing and characterization than any X-Men movie we have seen so far. 

Storm has been wasted. To be honest they could make a fine solo film about Storm as long as they didn't try and franchise it. She has a cool origin story - she was worshipped as a Goddess and yet she didn't turn into a megalomaniac. That says a lot about someone. Plus it's a different reaction from the stand fears and hates (it's more fears and worships).

I never read the Storm and Black Panther arc in the comics but I thought it was pretty unpopular? Or was that more the hamfisted way in which they put an end to it?

[The Wolves]

18 minutes ago, red snow said:

Storm has been wasted. To be honest they could make a fine solo film about Storm as long as they didn't try and franchise it. She has a cool origin story - she was worshipped as a Goddess and yet she didn't turn into a megalomaniac. That says a lot about someone. Plus it's a different reaction from the stand fears and hates (it's more fears and worships).

I never read the Storm and Black Panther arc in the comics but I thought it was pretty unpopular? Or was that more the hamfisted way in which they put an end to it?

Many of the X-Men characters have been wasted throughout the films it sucks. 

I liked the Storm and Black Panther comics but I never knew they were unpopular. 

But my desire to have Storm be in the Black Panther movie is that I think Marvel would do better with the character than what we've seen so far. 

[red snow]

6 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Many of the X-Men characters have been wasted throughout the films it sucks. 

I liked the Storm and Black Panther comics but I never knew they were unpopular. 

But my desire to have Storm be in the Black Panther movie is that I think Marvel would do better with the character than what we've seen so far. 

I'm hoping with Deadpool and the upcoming shows (I'd be surprised/disapointed if the "Fargo" showrunner can't make "legion" interesting) that they'll start seeking out writers/directors who "get" the characters. Probably something not by Kinberg would be a start (who I get the impression wants to be Feige/Goyer rolled into one). There must be plenty of writer/directors out there who loved watching the X-men show in the 90s or even read the comics. They should take a chance on someone not Singer and give them space to do something different. This is one of the things marvel tends to get right with their directors.

 

[Red Tiger]

32 minutes ago, red snow said:

Storm has been wasted. To be honest they could make a fine solo film about Storm as long as they didn't try and franchise it. She has a cool origin story - she was worshipped as a Goddess and yet she didn't turn into a megalomaniac. That says a lot about someone. Plus it's a different reaction from the stand fears and hates (it's more fears and worships).

I never read the Storm and Black Panther arc in the comics but I thought it was pretty unpopular? Or was that more the hamfisted way in which they put an end to it?

It.....was indeed not very loved.

[The BlackBear]

2 hours ago, WarGalley said:

But the real solution for the X-men franchise is for Fox to give them to Marvel like Sony did with Spiderman. 

But if Marvel had it we'd never have got Deadpool.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

11 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

But if Marvel had it we'd never have got Deadpool.

Yeah, I don't think the studio matters nearly so much as the director.

[The BlackBear]

6 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I don't think the studio matters nearly so much as the director.

That's not what I meant, would Disney Marvel ever sign off on an R Rated film connected to one of their golden geese?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

That's not what I meant, would Disney Marvel ever sign off on an R Rated film connected to one of their golden geese?

Ah yes, another angle I hadn't considered. 

I believe they will, once it becomes apparent that the profit margin makes it worthwhile. I doubt they'd allow any of their current franchises to go that route, but why not with a new film? I bet we see them make that leap if the Fox R rated Wolverine is a box office success.  

[Kalbear]

8 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

That's not what I meant, would Disney Marvel ever sign off on an R Rated film connected to one of their golden geese?

Yes. Certainly. Disney ain't saints. What they wouldn't do is take chances like Deadpool, at least not very likely. 

[WarGalley]

 

2 hours ago, red snow said:

I think the X-men are a big enough franchise to work perfectly on their own. In fact i think it would be detrimental to Marvel as they'd ignore the potentialy in all their other IP and just churn out x-men and the existing franchises.

Fox need to get their asses in gear and make a cinematic universe with the X-men franchises. Have the Starjammers/Shiar for cosmic - use Majick and the various magic related mutants for Dr Strange like things. New mutants for a school vibe. X-force for a military action film. There's a mutant version of pretty much any other marvel frachise. I wonder if Fox has Ka-zar and the Savage Land?

It looks like Fox are starting in that direction. The mis-step was in trying to incorporate Fant4stic but I thik/hope they learned their lesson with Deadpool.

I don't think they would have gone with a rated R movie first. They may be convinced now but even then I'm still doubtful. Most of these comics were made for kids. Which characters besides Wolverine and Deadpool would fit in a rated R movie? I'll assume Cable shows up in Deadpool 2 and Punisher is already getting a series that's pretty much going to be graphically violent. 

My bigger point is that Deadpool is Fox's only success. Outside of X2, I have been severely underwhelmed by pretty much every other X-men movie (and let's not talk about Fantastic 4). These people don't know what they're doing. They don't get the characters or the comics and I think Fox as a company doesn't have the culture to be successful. I've seen little improvement in their films across time. It took Ryan Reynolds quite a bit to get his version of Deadpool off the ground and I don't see anyone doing that for X-men.

I'm not sure I'll see Apocalypse in theaters (I haven't even seen Deadpool yet) and I don't want to unfairly bash a movie I haven't seen, but I am not hopeful for the future of this franchise.

I do agree that the X-men universe is large enough by itself such that we wouldn't need crossovers with Ant-man, Captain America, Spider-man etc. Genosha Island by itself could go multiple movies or a season long TV series.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

My bigger point is that Deadpool is Fox's only success. Outside of X2, I have been severely underwhelmed by pretty much every other X-men movie (and let's not talk about Fantastic 4). These people don't know what they're doing. They don't get the characters or the comics and I think Fox as a company doesn't have the culture to be successful. I've seen little improvement in their films across time. It took Ryan Reynolds quite a bit to get his version of Deadpool off the ground and I don't see anyone doing that for X-men.

I think they've had more hits than misses with the X-series. For me the only straight-up misses were X3 and Wolverine origins. The Fantastic Four movies were horrid, I'll give you that. Seems to me Fox is batting about .500 with their set of Marvel films.

[The Anti-Targ]

26 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

That's not what I meant, would Disney Marvel ever sign off on an R Rated film connected to one of their golden geese?

They did sign off on R rated Netflix shows.  Arguably DD and JJ primed the market for Deadpool in terms of R rated superhero adaptations that are actually good.

Though the reviews don't quite justify it I just wanted to write it as soon as I saw the low RT score this movie is getting, so here goes. X-men: Apocalypse has turned into X-men Appalling-clypse.

I always had a bit of a concern about Apocalypse the character, and it seems to be one of the elements of the movie critics are saying was done badly / cliched.

I thought the X-men reboot was a very promising move. But this is a bit of a miss-step. Hopefully the movie does well enough for the venture to carry on. But I would also not have too much of a problem with X-Men taking a long break and for another reboot to occur, including a new actor playing Wolverine.

[The BlackBear]

18 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

They did sign off on R rated Netflix shows.  Arguably DD and JJ primed the market for Deadpool in terms of R rated superhero adaptations that are actually good.

This is true but lets face it they're much more tangentially linked than a film would be. It seems to me Marvel are selling their brand, you see a Marvel film you know what you're getting. I just can't see them doing something similar with their films.

 

Back on topic my sister says she enjoyed it, and she's not your traditional comic book film fan, so I'm cautiously optimistic, but not enough to see it before it's first weekend has passed.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

6 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

This is true but lets face it they're much more tangentially linked than a film would be. It seems to me Marvel are selling their brand, you see a Marvel film you know what you're getting. I just can't see them doing something similar with their films.

I could see them putting a different imprint on it, like say Marvel Knights, or whatever. Something to separate those films from the MCU to some degree.

[Ruhail]

I'm so sick and tired of Singer. Hes stuck in the past with his vision on the X-Men. They should easily be a top tier film franchise with the amount of potential and bits to pull from. Instead they're a midrange one and a low budget riskeir Fox Marvel film has managed to outdo and out preform a 16 year old franchise. 

[The Anti-Targ]

It's true the Avengers line of movies significantly targets the older kid / young youth market. So incorporating an R-rated set of movies directly into the MCU would pose a difficulty for how you handle those R-rated characters into ensemble movies. So unless they can figure out a way to separate things I think they'd have a hard time putting R rated movies into the mix. One way to do it would be to set any R rated movies into a timeline preceding the Avengers, There's plenty of the 1990s and the 2000s for them to play around with and still be roughly contemporary. Iron Man in 2008 got things started, but Avengers and events that would be difficult to ignore really only kick off in 2012. So they could set several R-rated movies in the decade before the Avengers. I would even be possible to feature Jessica Jones in hero mode before she got Killgraved.

[Jace, Extat]

I think you could actually have a lot of fun with Deadpool in an ensemble PG-13 film if you did it right. Have him freaking out in the background because he's being censored and he's the only one that notices. Of course, that would only be possible because the audience already knows his deal.