Rebels lose how does Aerys punish Starks, Baratheon, Tully, Arryn?

[Max of the Magic Friends]

Assuming that Rhaegar doesn't depose him first? I believe his exact words were "Burn them all."

[the conquering bastard 25]

2 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

Robert was ordered dead just because he was Lyanna's betrothed. He had plenty of just cause.

Umm no he didnt.

 

The laughingstorm was denied a Targ bride for his son becaise she wed her brother. He was pissed. It almost come blows. Key word almost. 

You dont go to war over pussy!

Hell even in the war for Helen of Troy that war was never about her. It was a bout power she was an excuse. A pretext but not the reason.

Robert hadhis panties in a bunch because of his pride. Again another one of the worst reasons to go to war. 

If we must be honest with ourselves something is fishy about the entire Harrenhal Lyanna kidnapping brandon popping up in KL and then being stupid.to call out for Rhea to die.

No something is out of joint.

How.could Rheagar make changes like Jamies said he said if the Starks and such werent in his pocket. 

In order to call a grand council toremove his father he would first have to.prove Aerys umfit to rule.(Harrenhal)NNexthe.would.have to.have the support of the realm. I.e the joust and naming Lyanna Stark queen. Even at the expense of Dornes displeasure. Why risk it all? Not for a pretty face and nice teats as Walder.Frey would put it im sure.

The Starks had already built a solid base of operatioofoand connection in the south. 

At the start of Harrenhals tourney the Starks and allies allies poised to create some serious trouble for the realm. Then by tourneys end Lyanna stays close to the Trident but not at Riverrun(a stark ally) but either Harrenhal( house Whent and firmly in the princes pocket) or castle Darry again known Targ supporters. So it would seem as though their allegiance may have shifted. 

Then the kidnapping. Why go to KL? Rheagar lives on DS. Has lives there simce he came into his inheritance.  Hell taking Lyanna to DS may have even been a great place as the Starks lack a fleet to come after her. Yet they head to Dorne of all places.

Yet they dont aline themselves with the Martells. Lyanna wasnt held at Sunspears but a tower in the Princes pass.

 This is important. House manwoody holds that pass and isnt on good terms with the martells and the lands that buffer the pass belong to the Yronwood again enemies of house Martells.  Quentyn hadnt been sent to foster yet. So there was still some bad blood. This same tower is also a day or two ride.from either branch of house Dayne. Between Arthur and Elia he would have a basic grasp on there power structure.

The kidnapping story was a balm to soothe Roberta pride.  It took not the kidnapping of Lyanna for him to rise his banners but the death of his foster brothers family.

 

So again you dont go to wat over pussy

[BanzaiZ]

15 minutes ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

Umm no he didnt.

The laughingstorm was denied a Targ bride for his son becaise she wed her brother. He was pissed. It almost come blows. Key word almost. 

You dont go to war over pussy!

 

Did you miss the part where he was still minding his own business in the Vale and Aerys murdered Rickard, Brandon, and the Vale's heir and THEN demanded that Jon Arryn give him Eddard and Robert's heads as well? He was literally fighting for his life.

[the conquering bastard 25]

No did you miss the.part where the person quoting me thought Robert should keepnhis head because he rebelled.for Lyanna.

Im pointing out as the figure head and such he is the one who should lose his head as his pretext for rebelling was wounded pride and.Lyanna.

Not to mention if Ned and Arryn knew about the plot for Lyanna and Rhea to run offtogether. Rheas plan to overthrow Aerys it givrs even more credence.to why Aerys asked for their heads.

Roberta as the figurehead lord and Ned as the rallying cause. Not to mention we dont know.when Arryns heir was killed. Was it the chicken or the egg. He.died because Aerys knew about the southern ambition allience and he was trying to break it up. Or he killed said heir afterArryn refused.

Im thinking the latter. It was his test for loyality. Ill guve back your heir you kill my enemies. Prove you are no traitor.

Ned actually had a grievence. Not Robert. He just had the right amount of.royal blood.

Need i name some of the princes and princess who have died.because of drop or.two of royal blood?

Henry Tudor was exiled and wanted man but Edward IV. Because of his bastard drops of royal blood.

Edward Countrey spent 15 yrs in the tower because he was yhe great great grandson of Edward III.

Jane Grey, Mary Queen of Scots, thr Dukes of Buckingham( Thomas Woodstocks descendants) rose against Richard III and Henry VIII. Thats just war of the roses royalty. Elizbeth I held prisoner by her own sister.

Edward II, RichardII both deposed kings that met an untimely death.

Bloodraven holds Daemon II just so Bittersteelscouldn't start another rebellion as he still lived abet as a prisoner but he did live. 

 

I mean its called Roberts rebellion. So if anyone loses there.heads its him not the others. As they all have something to offer Rheagar.

Tywin,Mace and Stannis can all offer him their votes in the council

Ned as an honored guest(hostage) again can give his vote same as Arryn.

The only.person not need in this equation and is the wild card. Robert. Because Tywin wants a royal husband for his daughter. The realm is weakned and Tywin might think its.worth the.trouble of another was to see his daughter queen.

Robert has to die. He has.to be a lesson to the realm about what the new king.does.to traitors.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

We don't know exactly WHY Aerys wanted Robert dead. As far as we know, some little bird told him Robert and Ned were plotting along with Bran Stark to remove him from power.

[Kal-L]

11 hours ago, Protagoras said:

He simply have no friends left...

The Baratheons, Starks, Arryns and Tullys are angry. His friends are connected in many cases to Rhaegar - who will "do changes" or have realized how close it was they had lost. The Martells are in general pissed about the whole situation. The Greyjoys have lost their leaders and is now led by a leader with an imperialistic streak. Tywin are angry at him. Varys have finally started to get that he need to do some sound advice before the party crashes down too soon. Tyrells are the only unknown and their support might falter if there is a Targaryen powerstruggle (They don´t want to take sides).

That's bad ruling something I never denied of, but certainly not high treason against House Targaryen.

5 hours ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

No did you miss the.part where the person quoting me thought Robert should keepnhis head because he rebelled.for Lyanna.

 

I must have missed it because that's not what he said. Aerys asked for Ned and Robert's head that's all, before that Robert hadn't reacted yet, maybe he would have but we don't know, all we know is that he was condemned to death because he was Lyanna's betrothed.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

10 hours ago, Kal-L said:

I must have missed it because that's not what he said. Aerys asked for Ned and Robert's head that's all, before that Robert hadn't reacted yet, maybe he would have but we don't know, all we know is that he was condemned to death because he was Lyanna's betrothed.

We don't know that. That's not the only link between Robert and the Starks, but the fact he grew along with Ned in the Vale. IICR, Robert was in the Vale at the moment. As far as Aerys knew, Arryn was using them to plot against them.

Also, we don't know what Brandon or Rickard could have told Aerys for him to believe Robert was somehow involved. Maybe the idiot yelled "Robert is going to kill your rapist soooon!!!".

[WSmith84]

15 hours ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

No did you miss the.part where the person quoting me thought Robert should keepnhis head because he rebelled.for Lyanna.

Im pointing out as the figure head and such he is the one who should lose his head as his pretext for rebelling was wounded pride and.Lyanna.

Not to mention if Ned and Arryn knew about the plot for Lyanna and Rhea to run offtogether. Rheas plan to overthrow Aerys it givrs even more credence.to why Aerys asked for their heads.

Roberta as the figurehead lord and Ned as the rallying cause. Not to mention we dont know.when Arryns heir was killed. Was it the chicken or the egg. He.died because Aerys knew about the southern ambition allience and he was trying to break it up. Or he killed said heir afterArryn refused.

Im thinking the latter. It was his test for loyality. Ill guve back your heir you kill my enemies. Prove you are no traitor.

Ned actually had a grievence. Not Robert. He just had the right amount of.royal blood.

Need i name some of the princes and princess who have died.because of drop or.two of royal blood?

Henry Tudor was exiled and wanted man but Edward IV. Because of his bastard drops of royal blood.

Edward Countrey spent 15 yrs in the tower because he was yhe great great grandson of Edward III.

Jane Grey, Mary Queen of Scots, thr Dukes of Buckingham( Thomas Woodstocks descendants) rose against Richard III and Henry VIII. Thats just war of the roses royalty. Elizbeth I held prisoner by her own sister.

Edward II, RichardII both deposed kings that met an untimely death.

Bloodraven holds Daemon II just so Bittersteelscouldn't start another rebellion as he still lived abet as a prisoner but he did live. 

 

I mean its called Roberts rebellion. So if anyone loses there.heads its him not the others. As they all have something to offer Rheagar.

Tywin,Mace and Stannis can all offer him their votes in the council

Ned as an honored guest(hostage) again can give his vote same as Arryn.

The only.person not need in this equation and is the wild card. Robert. Because Tywin wants a royal husband for his daughter. The realm is weakned and Tywin might think its.worth the.trouble of another was to see his daughter queen.

Robert has to die. He has.to be a lesson to the realm about what the new king.does.to traitors.

Robert didn't rebel over Lyanna. When Lyanna disappeared, he did nothing. While Brandon rode to King's Landing and demanded that Rhaegar die, Robert sat in the Vale. When Aerys summoned the fathers of the men who had rode with Brandon, Robert did nothing. Only when Aerys demanded that Robert and Ned both die for absolutely no reason, did Robert, Ned and Jon Arryn rise in rebellion. Only when their lives were at stake. What about that is not 'just cause' to rebel?

[John Doe]

The Riverlands and Stormlands are the first to surrender because they have no other choice. The Freys probably get Riverrun and the Conningtons might get the Stormlands. 

Now the Vale and the North are more difficult to determine as they aren't easily conquered. Assuming that Jon Arryn dies in the south the Arryn line is dead, so it's possibly the Targaryens manage to install new lords over the Vale. As for the North, it would be very difficult to bring them back, maybe Benjen could be motivated to make peace with the crown, but I'm not sure. 

[John Doe]

On 22.4.2016 at 3:39 PM, Protagoras said:

He won´t.

Aerys will be deposed by Rhaegar (hell, he should be happy if he is not trialed for high treason against House Targaryen) and it will require a miracle for him to get in a position where he stays in power and somehow isn´t struck by multiple rebellions later.

As for punishment, the only thing I can see happen if smarter minds are in charge is making Darrys house paramounts of the Riverlands instead of Tullys (and maybe, maybe send some individuals to the wall). Nothing else. There need to be light punishments all around in order to solve the succession crisis Rhaegar created without a new war following after Rhaegar´s death.

That is a good point as well, I could see all or most of the rebels being pardoned if Rhaegar takes the crown. Or he could just be as crazy as his father, which is possible based on his actions in the books. 

[Kal-L]

2 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

We don't know that. That's not the only link between Robert and the Starks, but the fact he grew along with Ned in the Vale. IICR, Robert was in the Vale at the moment. As far as Aerys knew, Arryn was using them to plot against them.

Also, we don't know what Brandon or Rickard could have told Aerys for him to believe Robert was somehow involved. Maybe the idiot yelled "Robert is going to kill your rapist soooon!!!".

How so ? In that case why asking a man you don't trust to commit such a deed ?

I'm not going to enter into that kind of speculation especially as that's highly unlikely (Brandon bragging about other people doing the deed ? definitely no, had he been a lived I'm pretty there would have been an ego contest with Robert), I'm not saying I'm right but as of now that's the most likely scenario imo.

[Kal-L]

The Darry should get the leadership of the Riverrun just like the Connington might get the Stormland (if Rhaegar has his word in it). Otherwise the North was fully united so there will be no big change although either Robb or Benjen will be send to King's Landing as hostage and the Vale will suffer a succession crisis. I forgot to mention that I don't see Ned or Jon surviving the Trident in that scenario as Robert's death wouldn't have the same impact as Rhaegar's the rebels would fight to the end.

[Demonking1381]

Baratheons: There is no way arys would have allowed the baratheons to continue and execute all of them as an example.

Starks: Eddard would have been put to death as well as Jon Snow, then Benjen would have to be forced to bend the knee and swear fealty to the iron throne.

Arryns: Jon Arryns would be exiled from westoros for the rest of his days and one of the loyal Arryns of gulltown would be elevated to the lordship as ruler of the vale.

Tullys: Hoster Tully, Edmure, and the blackfish would be executed and Catelyn and Lysa would be married off to lords loyal to the crown and would become lord of riverrun.

[WSmith84]

Assuming the following:

Robert dies, but not to Rhaegar

Ned, Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully all survive but are captured.

R+L=J, and Rhaegar married Lyanna

Rhaegar lives

Well, Rhaegar clearly needs to depose his father and attempt to clear up the mess he and his father have made. Assuming his father is deposed smoothly, Rhaegar will be the one handing out the punishments. Clearly the rebel leaders have to be punished hardest. I imagine Ned would spend the rest of his life as a hostage in King's Landing, due to Rhaegar's... affection for his sister. That would probably be difficult for both of them. Ned would never get to see his son. Assuming Lyanna survived childbirth due to better healthcare or whatever, she and Ned would probably have a rather difficult relationship; Ned might not be so forgiving of her decisions now that he is a hostage and his best friend is dead. Jon Arryn might be allowed to live, or he might be executed. Difficult to say. Hoster Tully and the Blackfish would probably be executed or sent to the Wall, and Edmure would probably be a hostage somewhere. The Darrys would probably be LPs of the Riverlands. The Baratheons would probably also be replaced.

[Ice Turtle]

If Rhaegar ruled I don't think there would be much punishing. I think that Hoster Tully, Jon Arryn and Ned Stark could have been presumed to bend the knee. Depending on negotiation position of both sides either rewards would be granted or children would be required as wards. It is actually uncommon to kill high nobility, look at Balon or Tyrells after they changed sides. Necessarily position of the royal family would be weakened because Rhaegar would need to keep everyone sweet, and reward both the people who supported Targs and his new allies. I think he could keep Dorne too without giving up Lyanna (which would offer Northern greatly as her marriage value was destroyed) if he treats Elia with respect (I never thought he meant to put her aside) and be very cereful with Jon's betrothal. Jon would be actually good candidate for Arianne's spouse.