Feeling like the worst parent ever

[NoneofYourBiz]

On April 22, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Whitestripe said:

Ark: It hasn't all been yelling. Trust me.  I've asked if there was  a reason behind what's going on. His father has asked him, just in case he doesn't want to tell his mom. The answer (not surprisingly) is "Nothing is wrong."   When I asked (very calmly) why he has just decided not to do his work  he says "I don't know."  As for raiding his locker, emailing the counselor, etc.  He's had lots of chances to get this right.  We ask on a regular basis what his assignments are, and  to please bring home papers that need to be signed. We haven't heard anything. 

Bax: I'm not rushing into a dx of ADHD etc. I know my kid is disorganized. I've seen his room. I personally think it's the case of a kid trying to get away with as much as he can. I wanted to ask the school professionals if they had seen anything that would indicate otherwise. 

Twyin:  I don't think we're being to hard on him. Like I said, we've given him lots of chances. For example, he asked if he could get a locker organizer at Christmas. We picked out one together and I asked if he wanted me to go to school to help him install it. He declined so I didn't go. It was laying crumpled in the bottom of his locker last week.   I've only been to school with him after hours. The only person who saw me there was his homeroom/math teacher. 

 

Lany: I wish that our school had the home access site. They don't list assignments or homework. They only list grades at the middle and end of each quarter and attendance.

You aren't a bad parent.  You are likely a very good one.  I understand your frustration because everything you wrote was as if I was writing about my own child, who attends a school for gifted students and is musically gifted as well.  She is also extremely disorganized and does all the same things your child does.  She is usually great at the beginning of the school year but as she starts moving through the year the not turning in the homework and other shenanigans begin.  I sometimes feel as though she does great just until I start to relax....and then boom, she makes the most moronic choices.  When questioned as to why, she also answers with I don't know.  It's beyond frustrating.  I move through a constant cycle of grounding, taking away electronics (which are very distracting I believe) to reward systems, list making, you name it I have tried it.  She has been tested twice for ADHD and twice I have been told she doesn't have it.  My gut feelings as a parent agree with that assessment.  She simply tunes out if she is uninterested or thinks what she is learning or doing is a waste of her time.  The good news is, I was exactly the same at her age and looking back I cannot tell you why.  I outgrew it, I guess.  As an adult I am known to be extremely organized, efficient, and responsible, but I was none of these things in middle school and high school, though I had also been identified as gifted.  You would think that I might have good insight into what makes my daughter tick, since she is basically me version 2.0, but truthfully I don't and am as frustrated as you probably are.  

My daughter is a sixth grade student who takes high school level math and Spanish, with the remainder of her courses being Advanced Placement in a school entirely comprised of gifted students.  She had straight As all year and then suddenly last quarter she came home with an E...an E! in of all things Health/PE.  It turned out she neglected to bring a journal into class every day that she was supposed to bring.  For a whole quarter.  This quarter she brought that back up to an A but apparently decided instead not to turn in her Spanish homework for the past few weeks, which lowered her As that she received on ALL her tests to a C+. We caught early enough that she still has the opportunity to bring it up to an A by the end of the school year but it is utterly baffling to me why she would do that.  She loves Spanish and it is an easy course for her.  Her teacher wrote in the comments on her progress report that she is an exceptional student and a big contributor in class but had failed to turn in her homework for 3 weeks.  WTF?  Like you, I also inquire and review her homework with her each evening, so there are no excuses.  In fact many times she has actually done the work at her after school program, she simply hasn't turned it in.  Field trip permission slips frequently don't make it home (she missed her last field trip because of this) and I am constantly receiving overdue library book notices for her.  

If you figure it out, please clue me in.  Just want you to know its not just you!

[Vastet]

Reading the OP reminds me of myself as a kid.

There's likely a number of issues here. For one, the child is likely smart enough to recognise school for the farce it is, though he may not be able to articulate his feelings even to himself let alone to you. He has little trouble with classes even when he doesn't try, so classes are nothing but extreme boredom to him. Endless repitition of things he probably will never have a use for, intermixed with occasional moments of interesting and/or useful education. I'd recommend you try to find out which subjects he has the most interest in, and try to make time for him to explore those interests out of school at his own pace. Let him choose. Giving him a choice can be very fulfilling. At school he has little or no choice. That grinds at people.

It's also quite possible that he's being bullied. Having friends won't prevent it, and the school staff won't know. Aside from a few bullies who take it to a level that quickly becomes obvious to the entire world, most kids aren't stupid and know very well what they can get away with. The bullied child, especially as a male, will be extremely embarrassed discussing it. Even more especially if any girls are involved in the bullying. He won't talk about it with anyone. There's not much you can do about it. Unfortunately, short of home schooling or a private school with a much higher than average teacher to student ratio than found in public schools, there is nothing you can do except teach him how to handle bullies on his own, without resorting to contacting authorities in the school. That doesn't necessarily mean teaching him how to fight, but some self defence classes wouldn't be a bad thing.

Don't push him too hard, he'll just pull into his shell even further. Punishing him could very well be inflicting punishment for being punished already, which means he has no safe place at home or school. That isn't to say you should never punish him, but try to keep in mind that he might not feel safe at school. Taking away all his privileges just because a few marks are under par won't accomplish anything. Positive reinforcement can be very helpful here. You say he enjoys MTG, but it seems like all your reinforcement is based on that alone. Try some variety. My parents ended up offering $ rewards for certain grade milestones, as well as trips to the movies, eating out at the place of our choosing, trips to see NHL hockey games, and various other things. If you can combine his interests with rewards, like trips to museums if he likes history, or to science centres if he enjoys science, the result can be doubly rewarding because as he's having fun he's also learning.

[Buckwheat]

57 minutes ago, Vastet said:

It's also quite possible that he's being bullied. Having friends won't prevent it, and the school staff won't know. Aside from a few bullies who take it to a level that quickly becomes obvious to the entire world, most kids aren't stupid and know very well what they can get away with. The bullied child, especially as a male, will be extremely embarrassed discussing it. Even more especially if any girls are involved in the bullying. He won't talk about it with anyone. There's not much you can do about it. Unfortunately, short of home schooling or a private school with a much higher than average teacher to student ratio than found in public schools, there is nothing you can do except teach him how to handle bullies on his own, without resorting to contacting authorities in the school. That doesn't necessarily mean teaching him how to fight, but some self defence classes wouldn't be a bad thing.

"Without resorting to contacting authorities at the school?" If a child is being bullied at school, notifying the school is exactly what needs to be done. You cannot teach a child how to handle bullies on his own, no child is capable of that. If you tell that to a child, and when the child fails at it (which he/she will), then his/her stress level will just increase because now it will not be just the bullying bothering him, but the feeling of guilt and shame because he/she will feel he/she is uncapable of dealing with it and will think it is his/her own fault because he/she cannot stop it alone. That is why adults need to get involved in the situation - teacher, headmaster, parents of the bullies, somebody who can stop them. You cannot demand of a bullied child to stop their own bullying, you need to make sure the bullies will stop what they are doing.

[Vastet]

No it isn't, Unless the bullying is physical and causing physical harm, telling the authorities will only make things worse. I speak from much personal experience. There isn't even remotely enough staff to watch every bully in a public school. And unless it is physical (leaving evidence) it comes down to he said/she said, where the bullies back each other up and the bullied is on his own.

[Ded As Ned]

Redacted.

 

[Buckwheat]

10 hours ago, Vastet said:

No it isn't, Unless the bullying is physical and causing physical harm, telling the authorities will only make things worse. I speak from much personal experience. There isn't even remotely enough staff to watch every bully in a public school. And unless it is physical (leaving evidence) it comes down to he said/she said, where the bullies back each other up and the bullied is on his own.

And I speak from personal experience when I say that telling the child to deal with it themselves/just ignore it will make the child feel worse because they will feel inadequate and guilty for their own suffering. You are making it sound like verbal bullying is nothing important to deal with, and I disagree.

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

You are making it sound like verbal bullying is nothing important to deal with, and I disagree.

While I entirely disagree that a kid should just be left to deal with verbal bullying on their own, I don't think this what he's saying at all. It depends entirely on the school (mine was great for this when I was growing up, but it would be foolish to pretend that bad schools at dealing with bullying don't exist), and on the kids doing the bullying too, but it's entirely possible if you go to the school authorities that nothing will happen apart from an ineffectual telling off and then they'll get bullied harder because they're seen as having snitched.
But then leaving them to deal with it, while it certainly sometimes works- I've both for myself and in others seen bullying ease because of a strong reaction or a well-placed punch- in other cases, well, it just won't, and as you say telling a kid to deal with it and they can't isn't going to help their mental well-being. So you should never 'just leave it' - but that doesn't mean you should always go to the school, first thing.

That's the thing about bullying though - there's no 'right way'. A perfectly good course of action in one situation could result in disaster in another and sometimes there is no good course of action and that's a tragedy.

[Vastet]

"And I speak from personal experience when I say that telling the child to deal with it themselves/just ignore it will make the child feel worse because they will feel inadequate and guilty for their own suffering. You are making it sound like verbal bullying is nothing important to deal with, and I disagree."

You're a girl. Your experience is not comparable. And I'm not saying verbal abuse isn't something to deal with, I'm saying verbal abuse isn't something for adults to deal with.

At some point the kid has to learn to deal with verbal abuse anyway, because you're not going anywhere in life if you run to your parents every time someone says something you don't like.

[Buckwheat]

I was a bit too upset when I posted that and expressed myself too harshly, my apologies.

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

While I entirely disagree that a kid should just be left to deal with verbal bullying on their own, I don't think this what he's saying at all. It depends entirely on the school (mine was great for this when I was growing up, but it would be foolish to pretend that bad schools at dealing with bullying don't exist), and on the kids doing the bullying too, but it's entirely possible if you go to the school authorities that nothing will happen apart from an ineffectual telling off and then they'll get bullied harder because they're seen as having snitched.
But then leaving them to deal with it, while it certainly sometimes works- I've both for myself and in others seen bullying ease because of a strong reaction or a well-placed punch- in other cases, well, it just won't, and as you say telling a kid to deal with it and they can't isn't going to help their mental well-being. So you should never 'just leave it' - but that doesn't mean you should always go to the school, first thing.

That's the thing about bullying though - there's no 'right way'. A perfectly good course of action in one situation could result in disaster in another and sometimes there is no good course of action and that's a tragedy.

You are right that there is no one right way. I still think it is a good idea for at least teaching the child to tell their parents, maybe they can decide best because they know their child and the situation they are in the best. And then if the parents talk to the school, the bullied child will not be seen as the tattletale, because the child themselves did not go talk to the teacher the first thing.

39 minutes ago, Vastet said:

You're a girl. Your experience is not comparable. And I'm not saying verbal abuse isn't something to deal with, I'm saying verbal abuse isn't something for adults to deal with.

At some point the kid has to learn to deal with verbal abuse anyway, because you're not going anywhere in life if you run to your parents every time someone says something you don't like.

Well thank you for telling me that ...

Why would it be any less for adults to deal with than physical abuse? To me, this just makes it sound like you do not think psychical attacks are important enough to be taken seriously (by adults).

As to your second paragraph: If we are taking bullying as a learning experience (which I would rather not anyway), lets put it like that: At some point a child has to learn to trust and talk to the right people at hand and cooperate if they cannot control a situation themselves. So we can learn something from every situation. No need to put somebody through physical abuse for that, right?

Also, bullying is not "every time someone saying something you don't like", IMO. Bullying is an ongoing thing, that is getting harsher through time and can have consequences for their self-image, mental state etc. Yes, everybody needs to learn to deal with/ignore random people saying things you don't like once in a while, it happens. But bullying is something beyond that description.

Whitestripes, sorry for hijacking your thread. I am aware this was not supposed to be about bullying.

[polishgenius]

Quote

You're a girl. Your experience is not comparable.

I was agreeing with you before, but ...what? Do girls bully differently?

 

 

Quote

You are right that there is no one right way. I still think it is a good idea for at least teaching the child to tell their parents, maybe they can decide best because they know their child and the situation they are in the best. And then if the parents talk to the school, the bullied child will not be seen as the tattletale, because the child themselves did not go talk to the teacher the first thing.

Oh, kids absolutely should be encouraged tell their parents. Where the tricky part comes is between the parents and the school, and what the school should do.

Maybe we should split off to a new thread? It's probably a conversation worth having, but we don't wanna hijack this thread entirely.

[Vastet]

"Why would it be any less for adults to deal with than physical abuse? Again, this just makes it sound like you do not think psychical attacks are important enough to be taken seriously."

Because boys are expected to take care of themselves and be strong. Going for help makes you look weak in front of your peers, and they jump on it like a pack of coyotes. Even people not involved in the bullying tend to side with the bullies.
If the bullying is physical, the bullied has physical evidence to back up their claim, and it is much harder to dismiss.

"At some point a child has to learn to trust and talk to the right people at hand and cooperate"

Children already know that before they go to school. School actually teaches victims of bullying that people in authority can't be trusted to help.

"Also, bullying is not "every time someone saying something you don't like", IMO."

Obviously not, but that changes nothing.

[Vastet]

"I was agreeing with you before, but ...what? Do girls bully differently?"

No. The way adults react to it is different. If a boy bullies a girl, almost every adult goes after the boy and supports the girl.
If a girl bullies a boy, almost every adult laughs at the boy and supports the girl.

[Buckwheat]

I started a new conversation here:

 

[sologdin]

my kid just got a myopia diagnosis based in part on 'environmental factors,' inclusive of too much computer/tablet use.  so, yeah, that's my complete and total abject failure to discharge an absolute and non-delegable duty.

[Whitestripe]

DebL: OMG! We have the same kid.

Seli: You may me right about the perfectionist kid who needs direction.  He's got a book report due soon. The only requirement is to "be creative" and he was nearly in tears because "he just didn't know what to do!!!" when we suggested that perhaps  just a poster board with the main characters on it was not such a good idea.

Overall things are better, but still not great. His midterm  grades were great.. except science, which was due to two missing assignments.  We asked what sort of reward he would like for the the good grades. The choice was a few MTG packs (so he and his dad could do a sealed draft at home this weekend) or dinner out at the place of his choice.  He wanted the MTG cards. This of course came the same day that his math teacher said he was missing a math packet. (Apparently, in an effort to keep is locker clean, he tossed several papers that "weren't important" including the math packet, that he had completed, just not turned in) 

We still gave him the reward for the grades, but did say no video games until he finished the math packet.

I think he can learn to be organized. He remembers which days he has gym and which days he has clarinet lessons without our help, 'cause Lord knows I can't keep it straight.

Bullying is another issue so I'll go to the thread for that one.

Edit to add: We are going with some financial incentives, too. He's participating in an adolescent brain development study at the college where I work. The pay is $25/session (both parent and kid have to answer questions and I have to drive him and sit there for 2.5 hours each session. Since they are also interviewing me, my cut is $10 of each session, but goes up or down depending on him keeping his shit together for 2 weeks)

[Whitestripe]

Thread resurrect because we just got the the final grades of the year. Henry ended up on high honor roll this quarter. (The only high honor roll he missed was Q3, it was by 1.17 pt, and he was pissed about that, which is good because I want him to realize he has to try) He made it into honors math by the skin of his teeth, and was invited to join the jazz band, which is a select group. He got fantastic grades in French and English (high 90's) and good grades in math, science, and social studies. (low 90's).  This is telling, though, the comment that he had from his math/science teacher was "quality of work has decreased, inconsistent effort."  New for Q3 and Q4 was all the assignments and grades being listed on School Tool. (they didn't do it for the first two) Henry said "I don't understand why he wrote that, I did all the assignments." I explained the difference between doing all the assignments and doing them well. We then looked at all the grades in school tool. It seemed that the majority were either 100 or 80 and below. He either did really, really well on something or it was clear that he put no effort at all into it. We're obviously giving him a break over the summer, but it's so damn frustrating!

[baxus]

37 minutes ago, Whitestripe said:

Thread resurrect because we just got the the final grades of the year. Henry ended up on high honor roll this quarter. (The only high honor roll he missed was Q3, it was by 1.17 pt, and he was pissed about that, which is good because I want him to realize he has to try) He made it into honors math by the skin of his teeth, and was invited to join the jazz band, which is a select group. He got fantastic grades in French and English (high 90's) and good grades in math, science, and social studies. (low 90's).  This is telling, though, the comment that he had from his math/science teacher was "quality of work has decreased, inconsistent effort."  New for Q3 and Q4 was all the assignments and grades being listed on School Tool. (they didn't do it for the first two) Henry said "I don't understand why he wrote that, I did all the assignments." I explained the difference between doing all the assignments and doing them well. We then looked at all the grades in school tool. It seemed that the majority were either 100 or 80 and below. He either did really, really well on something or it was clear that he put no effort at all into it. We're obviously giving him a break over the summer, but it's so damn frustrating!

Low 90s (I' assuming that means out of a 100) is ONLY good grades?  

[Whitestripe]

53 minutes ago, baxusz said:

Low 90s (I' assuming that means out of a 100) is ONLY good grades?  

I know I sound like I'm setting impossibly high standards, but honestly, when I look at the individual assignment grades and I see that he got a 90 average because his quarter grades for homework, quizzes, tests, etc were something like 100, 80, 100, 100,70, 100, 80.  and he says "But Mom, I got a perfect score on four tests!" I get frustrated because there's no consistency. It's either "all in" or "don't really care" I know that everyone bombs and assignment now and again, and I am cool with that. If he got a 90 because all of his grades were in the 95-85 range, I'd be happy. When he gets a 90 because he doesn't understand that he has to consistently put forth the same effort, I get frustrated.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

8 hours ago, Whitestripe said:

I know I sound like I'm setting impossibly high standards, but honestly, when I look at the individual assignment grades and I see that he got a 90 average because his quarter grades for homework, quizzes, tests, etc were something like 100, 80, 100, 100,70, 100, 80.  and he says "But Mom, I got a perfect score on four tests!" I get frustrated because there's no consistency. It's either "all in" or "don't really care" I know that everyone bombs and assignment now and again, and I am cool with that. If he got a 90 because all of his grades were in the 95-85 range, I'd be happy. When he gets a 90 because he doesn't understand that he has to consistently put forth the same effort, I get frustrated.

Totally makes sense.  You know he is capable of more.

[Angalin]

There are times when I want to show this thread to the twins so they can see that I'm not the only parent who expects her kids to deliver on their potential. From something they said the other day, they remember fondly how the Other Parent would just let them get on with their lives and not make them work (chores, homework, etc.). Rough life, kids.