It really sucks to be Stannis

[Valens]

First of all, he was always devoted to his duty one hundred percent. Yet he had to watch his brother Robert steal all the glory, a notorious womaniser and drinker, later a drunk. However good in battle, Robert was not everything that could be wished for in a king or heir. Stannis was the serious one, but got nothing out of it, one can say. If he only had been born before Robert...and then, when he smashed the Greyjoy fleet and removed a MAJOR threat to the kingdom, he got too little recognition. To top it all of, his brother never trusted him or wanted him to be his Hand, plus he gave Storm's End to Renly, so much younger and less serious than Stannis. I see Stannis' character as a cautionary tale against getting too serious about your work and duty, in a way. You will not have a happy or giving life if you only think about duty and justice. And then, he got no male heirs and even the daughter he got, his only child, was disfigured. How cruel is that?! His wife becoming a crazed follower of the Red God didn't do much good either. Really, it sucks to be Stannis...although he still had at least a child of his own, opposed to Robert, he had little joy from it.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

Words like "joy" or "suck" mean little to the Mannis he is beyond the petty emotions of mortals

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Stannis is one of the luckiest characters in Westeros. Born a second son his incredibly generous brother chose to give him the Lordship of Dragonstone and the Narrow Sea Islands. Islands and ports that if managed right could make him and his descendants amongst the richest and most powerful Lords in Westeros.

Not only that but he puts him on his Small Council and makes him his Master of Ships, incharge of Westeros' immense Navy. Unlike other positions on the Small Council this position is a chance for military glory that does not have to share the glory with others. Not only that but his brother allows him to keep his position on the Small Council despite taking a relaxing 9 month break leaving the governing of the realm to others like Renly.

He is incredibly lucky. Not only does his brother set him up but he gets him to marry a Florent who is prepared to actually have his children (unlike poor Robert) and his own wife is more than happy to have his Mistress around (Mel) all the time.

He also has dipshit plans like attacking a much larger army at Storm's End and somehow gets away with it, or is able to escape with his life after his poorly planned attack on King's Landing goes, unsurprisingly, tits up.  Sixteen year old,Lord Commander of the Watch, Jon Snow charitably, against his sworn vows, points out how dumb it would be to go attack the Dreadfort in enemy territory.

How this clown is still alive at this point shows just how lucky he is. Clearly the Rincewind of Westeros.

[Hugorfonics]

25 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 Clearly the Rincewind of Westeros.

Lol does that make Davos the luggage?

[Valens]

12 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Stannis is one of the luckiest characters in Westeros. Born a second son his incredibly generous brother chose to give him the Lordship of Dragonstone and the Narrow Sea Islands. Islands and ports that if managed right could make him and his descendants amongst the richest and most powerful Lords in Westeros.

Not only that but he puts him on his Small Council and makes him his Master of Ships, incharge of Westeros' immense Navy. Unlike other positions on the Small Council this position is a chance for military glory that does not have to share the glory with others. Not only that but his brother allows him to keep his position on the Small Council despite taking a relaxing 9 month break leaving the governing of the realm to others like Renly.

He is incredibly lucky. Not only does his brother set him up but he gets him to marry a Florent who is prepared to actually have his children (unlike poor Robert) and his own wife is more than happy to have his Mistress around (Mel) all the time.

He also has dipshit plans like attacking a much larger army at Storm's End and somehow gets away with it, or is able to escape with his life after his poorly planned attack on King's Landing goes, unsurprisingly, tits up.  Sixteen year old,Lord Commander of the Watch, Jon Snow charitably, against his sworn vows, points out how dumb it would be to go attack the Dreadfort in enemy territory.

How this clown is still alive at this point shows just how lucky he is. Clearly the Rincewind of Westeros.

First of all, his attack on KL wasn't poorly planned. It would have succeeded had not the Tyrell bastards joined up with Tywin's army. ANd second, Robert didn't give him anything he didn't deserve. You are making this all about "poor Robert and lucky bastard Stannis". Robert was THE KING. Stannis had to settle being in his shadow always but was always more fit to rule than he. Ha! Come back when you have done your homework better!

[Ser Tristan Flowers]

13 hours ago, Valens said:

First of all, he was always devoted to his duty one hundred percent. Yet he had to watch his brother Robert steal all the glory, a notorious womaniser and drinker, later a drunk. However good in battle, Robert was not everything that could be wished for in a king or heir. Stannis was the serious one, but got nothing out of it, one can say. If he only had been born before Robert...and then, when he smashed the Greyjoy fleet and removed a MAJOR threat to the kingdom, he got too little recognition. To top it all of, his brother never trusted him or wanted him to be his Hand, plus he gave Storm's End to Renly, so much younger and less serious than Stannis. I see Stannis' character as a cautionary tale against getting too serious about your work and duty, in a way. You will not have a happy or giving life if you only think about duty and justice. And then, he got no male heirs and even the daughter he got, his only child, was disfigured. How cruel is that?! His wife becoming a crazed follower of the Red God didn't do much good either. Really, it sucks to be Stannis...although he still had at least a child of his own, opposed to Robert, he had little joy from it.

Spoiled rich boy is what he is. If it wasn´t for Robert he would be some castellan at storms end, in the best case, let alone have a castle of his own. If he was really all about duty he wouldn´t expect reward or recognition, but all he ever does is bitch and complain. The fact that he treats his wife like an alien might have something to do with her developement. No wonder they don´t have a lot of children when he only visits her twice a year.

He is going to war over a kingdom that hates him, without an heir that could have any remote hope to hold the realm together after his death, just out of pride and entitlement. All of his problems are self-imposed. Oh yes, poor Stannis. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

11 minutes ago, Valens said:

First of all, his attack on KL wasn't poorly planned.

Sure it was. "Let us all rush to Kings Landing and hope for the best, rather than trust an experienced seaman I'll give the job ton my brother-in-law"

11 minutes ago, Valens said:

 

It would have succeeded had not the Tyrell bastards joined up with Tywin's army.

And Stannis was quite aware of them not supporting him. Them attacking was a strong possibility, a more competent leader may have spotted that. If only Jon Snow was there to tell him the error of his ways (like the Dreadfort) then Stannis might have known better.

11 minutes ago, Valens said:

 

ANd second, Robert didn't give him anything he didn't deserve.

Debatable.

11 minutes ago, Valens said:

 

You are making this all about "poor Robert and lucky bastard Stannis".

I'm not, OP is. Yet another thread from a Stannis fan decrying how unfair it was for poor old Stannis.

11 minutes ago, Valens said:

 

Robert was THE KING.

Exactly Something he had to win.

11 minutes ago, Valens said:

Stannis had to settle being in his shadow always but was always more fit to rule than he.

As does every younger brother in Westeros. Though, in fairness, Renly was also a younger brother and did not seem to whine about it. He got on with it and built the largest army in Westeros thanks to his own leadership.

It is not Robert's fault that he was a better military commander than Stannis and was more loved by other Lords. Maybe if Stannis was not constantly; whining about how unfair it was then he would be a  little happier.

11 minutes ago, Valens said:

 

Ha! Come back when you have done your homework better!

lol

[oopeed]

13 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Stannis is one of the luckiest characters in Westeros. Born a second son his incredibly generous brother chose to give him the Lordship of Dragonstone and the Narrow Sea Islands. Islands and ports that if managed right could make him and his descendants amongst the richest and most powerful Lords in Westeros.

Not only that but he puts him on his Small Council and makes him his Master of Ships, incharge of Westeros' immense Navy. Unlike other positions on the Small Council this position is a chance for military glory that does not have to share the glory with others. Not only that but his brother allows him to keep his position on the Small Council despite taking a relaxing 9 month break leaving the governing of the realm to others like Renly.

He is incredibly lucky. Not only does his brother set him up but he gets him to marry a Florent who is prepared to actually have his children (unlike poor Robert) and his own wife is more than happy to have his Mistress around (Mel) all the time.

He also has dipshit plans like attacking a much larger army at Storm's End and somehow gets away with it, or is able to escape with his life after his poorly planned attack on King's Landing goes, unsurprisingly, tits up.  Sixteen year old,Lord Commander of the Watch, Jon Snow charitably, against his sworn vows, points out how dumb it would be to go attack the Dreadfort in enemy territory.

How this clown is still alive at this point shows just how lucky he is. Clearly the Rincewind of Westeros.

Maybe, Dragonstone after all was the seat of the heir during Targaryen rule, but Storm's End was Stannis' right by birth given how Robert was now the King. He had even gone as far as to almost starve to death defending his ancestral home yet he was sent to a barren island... You can argue that he is a bit of an ungrateful but still there's some reason behind Stannis logic.

Now, the second thing I think is Stannis major fault; he claims to be a honourable dude, yet he stormed to brood in his island while he knew that his KING, let alone his brother was in mortal danger and that the realm was in really bad hands.

Yes, the plan of marching to the Dreadfort was plainly stupid but mostly because he knew absolutely nothing of the North. And the assault on KL was a very good plan; after all his men were about to storm the gates even after the huge blow of the wildfyre and the chain, the only thing that saved KL was actually LF who knew that Stannis was not going to tolerate Baelish living for a single second if he got the throne.

I do not like Stannis, I think he is prick with a silver spoon up his arse, but he got to his place with much more than just luck.

[Ser Tristan Flowers]

1 minute ago, Merengues said:

Maybe, Dragonstone after all was the seat of the heir during Targaryen rule, but Storm's End was Stannis' right by birth given how Robert was now the King. He had even gone as far as to almost starve to death defending his ancestral home yet he was sent to a barren island... You can argue that he is a bit of an ungrateful but still there's some reason behind Stannis logic.

Stannis is a second son, he doesn´t have a birthright. Storms End belonged to Robert and he can do with it whatever he pleases. Just because he gets another seat doesn´t mean his old one passes to his brother, that´s not how inheritance works.

[Valens]

2 minutes ago, Merengues said:

Maybe, Dragonstone after all was the seat of the heir during Targaryen rule, but Storm's End was Stannis' right by birth given how Robert was now the King. He had even gone as far as to almost starve to death defending his ancestral home yet he was sent to a barren island... You can argue that he is a bit of an ungrateful but still there's some reason behind Stannis logic.

Now, the second thing I think is Stannis major fault; he claims to be a honourable dude, yet he stormed to brood in his island while he knew that his KING, let alone his brother was in mortal danger and that the realm was in really bad hands.

Yes, the plan of marching to the Dreadfort was plainly stupid but mostly because he knew absolutely nothing of the North. And the assault on KL was a very good plan; after all his men were about to storm the gates even after the huge blow of the wildfyre and the chain, the only thing that saved KL was actually LF who knew that Stannis was not going to tolerate Baelish living for a single second if he got the throne.

I do not like Stannis, I think he is prick with a silver spoon up his arse, but he got to his place with much more than just luck.

EXACTLY! Thank you for that. Stannis DID almost starve to death because he wouldn't yield Dragonstone to the enemy and where was Robert's gratitude for that? Did Robert ever have to starve? Nope! Robert's life was always about wine, women and song and grandeur. So please mr. littledragon, don't give me that! Stannis had the most ungrateful position by far of the three brothers. Renly didn't mind being in Robert's shadow because he was much younger and also never did anything to prove himself for real, neither as a commander, warrior or even advisor to Robert.

[Lord Varys]

Stannis was a second son. He had no rights to anything. And Robert certainly had every right to treat Stannis like shit - he was the elder brother, the heir, later the lord, then the king, and the guy who could actually talk to people and win their trust.

Stannis was an embarrassment. The fact that he did his duty isn't a great accomplishment, either. As a second son you have serve your elder brother and father or fend for yourself like Robar Royce was forced to do. And I'm not even sure he did his duty. His duty would have been to tell Robert what he (believed he) had learned about Cersei and her children. But he did not. Instead he abandoned his brother to his enemies. He also had no right to complain that he wasn't named Hand or granted Storm's End. It is Robert's right to name Hands and grant castles, not Stannis' to demand titles and offices. Not to mention that Robert was probably correct and Stannis would have sucked as Hand.

Stannis would have sucked as a sellsword or a tourney knight because, you know, he isn't a great warrior, and if you aren't a great warrior then you don't rise through the ranks to become a captain. Stannis' determination helped him to command, but that was due to his noble privilege. Had the man been forced to earn the respect he demanded because of his blood and rank he would have failed miserably.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1 minute ago, Valens said:

EXACTLY! Thank you for that. Stannis DID almost starve to death

Renly was there as well.

1 minute ago, Valens said:

 

because he wouldn't yield Dragonstone to the enemy and where was Robert's gratitude for that?

He gave him Dragonstone and the Narow Sea Islands. He made him his Master of Ships. How much does he want for sitting inside a castle?

1 minute ago, Valens said:

Did Robert ever have to starve? Nope!

Well yeah, Robert would not have alienated the other smugglers leaving only an onion knight willing to risk his life.

1 minute ago, Valens said:

 

Robert's life was always about wine, women and song and grandeur.

What is wrong with that? poor king but greatest military commander in the series. His Kingship was something he won while Stannis was given his Lordship from a very generous brother.

1 minute ago, Valens said:

 

So please mr. littledragon, don't give me that! Stannis had the most ungrateful position by far of the three brothers.

lol no, not really.

Stannius was constantly looking for hand-outs from his generous older brother and never tried to get along with him or anyone else. Even abandoned his the Small Council for a nice long break at Dragonstone.

1 minute ago, Valens said:

 

Renly didn't mind being in Robert's shadow because he was much younger and also never did anything to prove himself for real, neither as a commander, warrior or even advisor to Robert.

Sure he did. When Robert went North and Stannis abandoned Kings Landing who remained to govern the realm?

And you do realize that, unlike Stannis who could only rely on the Lords Robert gave him, Renly was able to make his own alliances.

Renly had surpassed Stannis as a leader. He could have brought peace to Westeros and had them better prepared for the Long Night and instead his jealous brother assassinated him.

[Valens]

2 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Renly was there as well.

He gave him Dragonstone and the Narow Sea Islands. He made him his Master of Ships. How much does he want for sitting inside a castle?

Well yeah, Robert would not have alienated the other smugglers leaving only an onion knight willing to risk his life.

What is wrong with that? poor king but greatest military commander in the series. His Kingship was something he won while Stannis was given his Lordship from a very generous brother.

lol no, not really.

Stannius was constantly looking for hand-outs from his generous older brother and never tried to get along with him or anyone else. Even abandoned his the Small Council for a nice long break at Dragonstone.

Sure he did. When Robert went North and Stannis abandoned Kings Landing who remained to govern the realm?

And you do realize that, unlike Stannis who could only rely on the Lords Robert gave him, Renly was able to make his own alliances.

Renly had surpassed Stannis as a leader. He could have brought peace to Westeros and had them better prepared for the Long Night and instead his jealous brother assassinated him.

Renly was able to make his own alliances but because he was charming and people liked him. He had the looks, like Robert and plus his "liaison" with Loras gave him ties to Tyrell's. It was because of his last name and his personal charm, nothing to do with his governing skills.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Just now, Valens said:

Renly was able to make his own alliances but because he was charming and people liked him.

You do realize these are leadership skills. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to actually get along with people in order to build strong alliances.

Stannis too could have tried instead of endlessly whinging how unfair life was.

Just now, Valens said:

He had the looks, like Robert and plus his "liaison" with Loras gave him ties to Tyrell's. It was because of his last name and his personal charm, nothing to do with his governing skills.

wow, bitter much.

[Valens]

Just now, thelittledragonthatcould said:

You do realize these are leadership skills. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to actually get along with people in order to build strong alliances.

Stannis too could have tried instead of endlessly whinging how unfair life was.

wow, bitter much.

While it's true Stannis never was good at geting friends, he still did much for the realm and didn't get enough in return. Can't argue that, sorry!

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Just now, Valens said:

While it's true Stannis never was good at geting friends, he still did much for the realm and didn't get enough in return. Can't argue that, sorry!

I'm sorry but the author even says Robert was generous

Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity.

Stannis could have remained a landless noble. Robert was extremely king to his brother and all he ever did was complain that it was not enough. That he should have been made Hand.

[Valens]

1 minute ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

I'm sorry but the author even says Robert was generous

Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity.

Stannis could have remained a landless noble. Robert was extremely king to his brother and all he ever did was complain that it was not enough. That he should have been made Hand.

BUT RENLY GOT THE STORM'S END. Stannis got barren little Dragonstone, which held only a symbolical, historical value-screw that! You don't get rich from memories, do you?

[The Drunkard]

Stannis took Dragonstone for our sins.

29 minutes ago, Valens said:

BUT RENLY GOT THE STORM'S END. Stannis got barren little Dragonstone, which held only a symbolical, historical value-screw that! You don't get rich from memories, do you?

Yeah, that's the crux of it. Robert had the legal right to give Storm's End to his horse if he felt like it, but in terms of merit? Stannis was unarguably more deserving than the young Renly. I doubt Robert meant to slight him, but the ever-practical Stannis couldn't understand why he'd be given the lesser holding other than to think Robert was reprimanding him. This disconnect is what blew up their relationship.

[Ser Tristan Flowers]

36 minutes ago, Valens said:

BUT RENLY GOT THE STORM'S END. Stannis got barren little Dragonstone, which held only a symbolical, historical value-screw that! You don't get rich from memories, do you?

Wich turned out be the right decision, all be it unknowingly. Renly would´ve secured the throne for the Baratheon line if it wasn´t for Stannis.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

41 minutes ago, Valens said:

BUT RENLY GOT THE STORM'S END. Stannis got barren little Dragonstone, which held only a symbolical, historical value-screw that! You don't get rich from memories, do you?

And? Robert needed someone who could rebuild relations with the Reach and Stormlords. Stannis was not the man for that job.

'These men meant to deliver you to Aerys to be burned,' I told him after I saw them throwing axes in the yard. 'You should not be putting axes in their hands.' Robert only laughed. I would have thrown Grandison and Cafferen into a dungeon, but he turned them into friends. Lord Cafferen died at Ashford Castle, cut down by Randyll Tarly whilst fighting for Robert. Lord Grandison was wounded on the Trident and died of it a year after. My brother made them love him, but it would seem that I inspire only betrayal.

Robert was generous to his brothers but he also had a kingdom to run and he needed someone to get along with the South and Renly was far better equipped to do that than Stannis.

Robert did not have to give either brother anything, he did so out of his own generosity. Stannis did not get the Stormlands for the same reason he was not made Hand, his inability to compromise and get along with other Lords is damaging not only to himself but his brother the King.