VarysTheSpider Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Perfectly possible and fine to criticise actions of Israel. But when you start suggesting Israel should be transported thousands of miles away, "criticism" has become a pretty small blip in the rear view mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Quote How do people see the Junior Doctors' Contract situation playing out? I'd be interested to see whether the strike they held yesterday actually puts pressure on the Hunt to move, or if it starts to erode public opinion of the Doctors. I must say I'm somewhat surprised at how little impetus there seems to be for the rest of the government to intervene and sort out the mess. All the vitriol is being directed at Hunt, so the backlash doesn't seem to have affected the Tory government at large. Is it likely that this will change, or will the government eventually shuffle Hunt out of the position and that'll be that? Hunt's always been a bit disposable. I think the idea was to use him to force through the most outrageous parts of the NHS reforms and then replace him in a reshuffle with someone else later on. In an odd kind of way, having him as health secretary is helpful as he attracts the ire and bile of the doctors rather than the government as a whole. However, that only works up to a point and with them calling for Cameron's intervention and talks with Cameron that ignore Hunt, they may have reached the point when they have to do something else. I've been working in a hospital for most of this year, and the most interesting thing they focused on there was the reduction in the medical equipment procurement and maintenance budget. After looking at the needs of the NHS as a whole across the country, they confirmed they needed £4.3 billion and only got £3.1 billion. So the NHS budget as a whole has been slashed for this year by £1.2 billion, but because they hid it in the equipment budget rather than front-line services, no-one's really noticed, especially not with this other stuff that's going on. Quote if you can't be critical of Israel in the Palestine situation then we're in bad shape. Yeah, I don't think you can really equate that with calling for the state of Israel to be abolished. That's a stupid, moronic idea that should never have been published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/27/naz-shah-suspended-labour-party-antisemitism-row Quote Jeremy Corbyn has caved in to pressure and suspended Naz Shah, the Bradford West MP, over remarks she made about Israel on Facebook. Shortly before he faced David Cameron in the House of Commons on Wednesday afternoon Corbyn had issued a statement saying that he had accepted Shah’s “fulsome” apology for a series of posts from 2014 in which she appeared to endorse a suggestion that Israelis be deported to the United States. Even after the prime minister said it was “extraordinary,” that she continued to hold the Labour whip, and accused the Labour leader of failing to get to grips with antisemitisim in his party, Corbyn’s aides defended Shah, saying the comments were antisemitic but the MP had “shocked herself,” and did not mean what she said. Kick antisemitism out of UK. Oh how far the labour have fallen, gone too far to pander to muslim votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 7 hours ago, VarysTheSpider said: Perfectly possible and fine to criticise actions of Israel. But when you start suggesting Israel should be transported thousands of miles away, "criticism" has become a pretty small blip in the rear view mirror. 4 hours ago, Werthead said: Yeah, I don't think you can really equate that with calling for the state of Israel to be abolished. That's a stupid, moronic idea that should never have been published. I dunno, maybe I'm taking it less literally than she meant it, but when I read something like that, I don't think 'oh she wants to literally move Israel to America'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Ken Livingstone seems to have decided that nobody's paying him enough attention recently and has decided to support Naz Shah, thus leading to at least three senior Labour figures to call for his expulsion http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36160135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I think that Labour have seen how much fun the Tories have been having, tearing chunks out of each other, and they've decided to join in the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The issue of where the line is drawn on antisemitism vs criticism of Israel has been a huge topic in the Labour party for years, particularly on the left: it's often used as a weapon in internal right/left disputes. So it's not that surprising to me that it's come up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The anti-semitism row is so tiresome. There might be anti-semitic feeling in the labour party but the whole situation is so politically charged, with phrases like "Nazi apologist" easily thrown around, that nothing can possibly be done to actually get to grips with the issue. It must be one of the clearest examples of the frustrating nature of party politics. Livingstone is an idiot, as usual, but at least he has no patience with that kind of bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 In lighter political news, happy Ed Balls day everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Not really a great day for Labour. Ken Livingstone has been suspended for anti-Semitism, ex-MEP Peter Skinner has been jailed for fraud, and Marie Rimmer, MP, is going on trial, accused of assaulting an old age pensioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Labour's ability to, when presented with an open goal by the Tories, instead hurl themselves onto the nearest landmine is quite remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 On 4/30/2016 at 3:42 PM, Werthead said: Labour's ability to, when presented with an open goal by the Tories, instead hurl themselves onto the nearest landmine is quite remarkable. Any mediocre Opposition would be 10%+ ahead of the government at this point. Labour can't even achieve mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 11 hours ago, SeanF said: Any mediocre Opposition would be 10%+ ahead of the government at this point. Labour can't even achieve mediocrity. If the Liberal Democrats hadn't self-destructed during the last parliament this could have been the perfect opportunity for them to take advantage of the weaknesses of the two main parties, but they're in no position to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Both main parties are in disarray, the Tories over Europe and Labour over this tiresome internal left/right battle. It's not really a good thing to be doing given the big issues out there that need to be dealt with. And William's right, a Lib Dem third party with reasonable influence would be handy right about now. I wonder if Cameron preferred being PM in a coalition government, when he could simply boot the really controversial stuff into the long grass and say, "Sorry, we can't deal with it now because of the coalition agreement." He wouldn't have the EU referendum to worry about, would probably have had to have taken less stringent stands on health and education. He'd probably be having a much less stressful time of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Nah, in those days he had just as much stress, I think. Lib Dems demanding concessions on the one hand, Tories demanding to know why they couldn't get their way on the other. We have a Scottish Parliament election in two days and it's weirdly quiet, largely because everyone seems to see it as a foregone conclusion. The Conservative campaign is officially and explicitly aimed at becoming the main opposition party, not the government. Labour occasionally make token remarks about how they have a programme for government, but it's not said with any conviction and they're actually more worried about maintaining their current number of MSPs. Which is odd when you think about it: the SNP lost a referendum on their flagship policy less than two years ago and yet they're so far ahead in the polls, everyone simply accepts they're going to win. Their main campaign is about persuading people to vote for them on both constituency and list votes to maximise the size of their win. But the alternatives are all pretty rubbish, and that just about sums up UK politics right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 More rumours of a plot to oust Jez today. Margaret Hodge allegedly being persuaded to take the stalking horse role. The coup to be scheduled for after the referendum, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 So they're no longer planning to oust him if Labour underperforms tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 5 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said: More rumours of a plot to oust Jez today. Margaret Hodge allegedly being persuaded to take the stalking horse role. The coup to be scheduled for after the referendum, of course. Margaret Hodge comes with considerable baggage of her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 The current state of play, in the EU Referendum, according to the polling (excluding don't knows). BMG 51% Leave 49% Remain ORB (Online) 51% Leave 49% Remain ICM 50.5% Leave 49.5% Remain Yougov 50.5% Leave 49.5% Remain Opinium 49.5% Leave 50.5% Remain ORB (Phone) 47% Leave 53% Remain Survation 46% Leave 54% Remain Ipsos Mori 44% Leave 56% Remain ComRes 44% Leave 56% Remain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 What fun, I get to vote today. We have received one leaflet from the Conservatives and thats it. I have not been able to find information on the others standing apart from their names and party. - I really feel like they don't deserve my vote. and I won't vote Tory. as for the crime commissioner. - well I hate the idea of an elected crime commissioner anyway. and yes no info at all. Really not sure I can be bothered today. If I do go I guess I'm spoiling both ballets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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