The Dragon Demands

How should the wiki handle TV-introduced spoilers?

5 posts in this topic

Elio told me to ask this in a thread here. 

How should the wiki handle TV-introduced spoilers?

Generally I think "TV introduced spoilers" fall into two categories now that they're catching up with the novels:

1 - Broad plot strokes which seem probable to happen in future novels but for which nothing about the novels themselves is stated.  I.e. if Jon Snow gets resurrected, the exact mechanics of how this happens in the TV show *as aired*.  But if nothing further is said about it, we don't really know if the next novel will do it that specific way (similar to how the specific mechanics of Arya being blinded in Season 5 were slightly moved around from how it occurred in book four, though thematically not too different). 

2 - Points when the TV writers outright state "George R.R. Martin told us this will happen in a future novel, when he told us the general outline".  Case in point, Benioff and Weiss outright stating, "Martin told us Shireen would be burned as a sacrifice in an upcoming novel". 

What surprises me most is if the TV writers ever sat down and reflected on how they should handle this question when they get to it.

It's the lack of discussion and self-analysis I hate the most.  If they actually sat down and Benioff said, "Hey Weiss, now that plot elements from future books are happening, should we outright state 'this happens in a future novel', or should we leave it ambiguous if it's something the TV version made up?", and Weiss pondered the question, and said, "Due to artistic integrity, I truly believe that weighing the options, yes we should mention when something is straight from the outline of future novels they were given."

What I worry about is that this didn't happen, and they just blurted out "Shireen dies in a future novel" without even considering what they were doing.  Let me make this clear:  I could even respect it if they had a discussion and made a conscious decision that "we will state when stuff is from a future novel". 


Of course, they had FIVE YEARS to think on this, they were ALWAYS being asked "what happens when the TV series outpaces the current novels?"....I'd be surprised if it was never even casually discussed, "how should we handle this?"

That being said, I can even understand *why* they said this about Shireen at the end of Season 5:  it's a very shocking scene, and apparently *somewhat condensed* from how the novels will do it.  So they wanted to make it clear, "we're not killing off a character lightly because we thought it was cool to make such a drastic change, this was something from the source material we're condensing somewhat."  A lot of people, myself included, wondered "are they just making this up?" and they wanted to clarify.  At the same time, I do think they mishandled it....in that from their brief comments it wasn't clear if they..."weighed" whether or not they should reveal this, it just sort of slipped out.  I think.  A spoiler warning would have been appreciated.

But we should use Shireen's death in the TV series as a learning experience and bellweather: 

They should have known that at some point they'd reach material from unpublished novels, and how they should handle it.  For example ,if Cersei dies in Season 6....what are they going to do, say "this is what happens in the next novel"?  Have these guys been involved in "fandoms" before, I mean?  You're supposed to leave it deliberately ambiguous!  You're supposed to say "I can't confirm or deny if the next novel does this or if this is our invention"....with, I suppose, the tacit argument that this will *probably* happen in the next novel, broad strokes, etc. 

I'm trying to be forgiving when possible....but it's hard to sympathize with guys who *haven't given an open sit-down Q&A in two full years*, and when they do get such questions, brush aside anything that seriously probes about adaptation changes. 


The point is, Shireen was the first big moment, and now in Season 6 we're going to get other things such as Jon Snow's storyline which surpass the current novels. 

The Wiki of Ice and Fire on Westeros.org is supposed to be a wiki devoted to "all things Game of Thrones", from the books to the comics to the video games and trading cards.  This is what Elio directly said.

So the thought occurs:  right now, SHOULD the wiki include information about Shireen's death in the TV series being stated to be from an upcoming novel? 

HOW do we handle future major plot spoilers of this nature?  Are we forbidden from adding such information to the "Jon Snow" article from the books? 

Or, is it permissible to put such information in episode pages and so forth, but the "Shireen Baratheon" and "Jon Snow" articles are now very specifically understood to be the "book Shireen" and "book Jon Snow" articles?  And anything from unpublished novels, even if Benioff and Weiss say into the camera, "George told us this is going to happen in the future novels"...is off-limits?

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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For the record, I have NO IDEA how to proceed.  It's Elio and Linda's house on here, I play by their rules.

But more broadly....even if I had total freedom of choice....I wouldn't know what the hell to do.  I have no inclination one way or another. 

I...I doubt I'll actually ADD new information from the TV series to the wiki, but at the same time, I want to know if we should *remove* it when we see it added on there.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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Um....given how prominent an issue this is, I think it may be prudent to split that conversation off to a new thread like this one -- casual visitors won't see a post on page 60.  Damn it I should have made this thread before Elio responded only yesterday (I'm the one that asked about it on twitter). 

....well, either way my official position was "I abstain, I just want to know what Elio says we should do" so...yeah...

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I won't be watching Season 6 of Game of Thrones. I do love though to come on this site and read many threads. So, I would like to not be spoiled by someone posting something like "Jon Snow is alive" on a new Topic. The name of the Thread has to be non spoiled to those who are not watching the show. If I see for example on a thread, Spoiler alert GoT S6, Then obviously I can ignore that thread. But if someone posts something already in the title of the thread then what's the point, the harm is done. So, I believe the most important will be to not put spoilers along with the title and a warning along with the title for those who won't watch the show. For example, Jon Snow: Spoiler S6 GoT. Then it is up to the person who wants to participate, but at least every one is warned. Thank you for reading. 

Edited by ANNALISVETH

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