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What is D and D's endgame?


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4 minutes ago, Ben H'gahr said:

I was reminded of the GOT-movie rumors by your post, yes. But apologies if I got that wrong.

Btw, most people think I am just a hater trying to kill hype when I bring the point forward that there won't (more like than not) a GOT-movie. This was not my intent. Nevertheless, what did you mean then if not a GOT-movie?

Just what I said. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss had a film deal that is not GoT related for when the show is over. But I'm not sure. Maybe it was over Werthead's thread? Or his blog? Or somewhere, sorry, I really don't remember.

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I am pretty sure they are setting up Dorne to get burned by Daenery's dragons. Also Daenerys and at least one of her dragons save the day against the Others.

I think they will keep some superficial similarities with the book ending, at least for Daenerys but rush, and change much when it comes to the journey to that destination. Dorne leadership being more irrational and murderous might also be part of that, making it easier to swallow when Dorne gets burnt.

 

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1 hour ago, Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren said:

I am pretty sure they are setting up Dorne to get burned by Daenery's dragons. Also Daenerys and at least one of her dragons save the day against the Others.

I think they will keep some superficial similarities with the book ending, at least for Daenerys but rush, and change much when it comes to the journey to that destination. Dorne leadership being more irrational and murderous might also be part of that, making it easier to swallow when Dorne gets burnt.

 

There won't be anything superficial about it.  It will become the canon ending for the series.

Because the chances are that there will even be a book ending are slim to none.  I don't think the TV show is worthy of the global praise it gets but I am delighted we'll get an ending of some kind.  And I do think the core ending will be the same as the book.  Some of the journeys will be different but that's not D&D's fault.  That lies squarely with GRRM for not knowing himself and not finishing the books so that they can be adapted.

Naturally the TV show can never be completely accurately adapted a book.  No TV show can against any book.  But the core events from the first three books of the series were captured fairly satisfactorily in the TV show.  But after the source material from the those first three books ran out?  The TV show was always going to struggle as 1) so many of the new, ultimately meaningless, plots and story lines  from the books aren't resolved in the books and 2) AFFC & ADWD are poor books comparative to the first three and they introduced a whole load of new pointless characters that most people don't care about.

I recently did a re-read of the entire series, including AFFC & ADWD spliced together so that they flowed better, and it really does make you realise how poor AFFC & ADWD are, especially in terms of pacing.  They were never going to translate well to TV, especially with so many new characters added (which halfway through a book series is ridiculous).  It was really telling for me that AGOT and ASOS were the two best books primarily because they introduced so few new characters.  And the major characters that were introduced, in ASOS, pretty much had their story arcs completed in that book.  The books actually felt like the first part of two trilogies. ACOK was a bit slow and upon a re-read I realised it's biggest faults actually lay with the new POV's and the introduction of a load of new characters.  But when ASOS came along you were familiar with those characters to the book flowed.  AFFC & ADWD are an absolute mess.  At a point in the story where the story should start being streamlined and steaming towards a resolution we have bloat, bloat,bloat and a whole raft of new characters.  The books are better on a re-read, because you know the characters (and can skip over the ones you don't like if that's your thing) but AFFC & ADWD are still ultimately poor books with an awful lot of repetition.  And what is most worrying is that despite having all the major players in, I'd say that ADWD is an inferior book to AFFC.

Sadly it also made me realise the books have had it.  I was desperate for TWOW to come out before the TV show.  Now I actually think it may be better for all parties concerned if it never came out.  GRRM has clearly lost his mojo and got so entangled with feeling he needs to justify viewpoints all over the place that he has lost control of his own story.  I actually don't believe that TWOW will be any better than AFFC or ADWD.

I genuinely thought that once the Meerenese Knot was resolved we'd get back on track.  But we aren't.  We are nowhere near.  This 3 part books series that became a 6 part series and now a 7 part series?  Isn't going to be finished in 7 books.  At least not unless he rushes a load of plots and starts bumping off characters left, right and centre with stories untold and story arcs unfulfilled.

However part of me always clung to the hope that the endgame at least was pretty well fleshed out and indeed it's the filler of trying to fulfill the events from the original 5 year gap that has given him the block.  I don't think he'll ever overcome that block but if he told the more original streamlined version to D&D then at least we may get a satisfactory resolution to the series.

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19 hours ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

 They own the right to Westeros in visual media, that is worth alot of money.  As they are rushing to finish, I do hope they sell them.

It is HBO not D&D owns Westeros in visual media

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1 hour ago, Ser Gareth said:

There won't be anything superficial about it.  It will become the canon ending for the series.

Because the chances are that there will even be a book ending are slim to none.  I don't think the TV show is worthy of the global praise it gets but I am delighted we'll get an ending of some kind.  And I do think the core ending will be the same as the book.  Some of the journeys will be different but that's not D&D's fault.  That lies squarely with GRRM for not knowing himself and not finishing the books so that they can be adapted.

Naturally the TV show can never be completely accurately adapted a book.  No TV show can against any book.  But the core events from the first three books of the series were captured fairly satisfactorily in the TV show.  But after the source material from the those first three books ran out?  The TV show was always going to struggle as 1) so many of the new, ultimately meaningless, plots and story lines  from the books aren't resolved in the books and 2) AFFC & ADWD are poor books comparative to the first three and they introduced a whole load of new pointless characters that most people don't care about.

I recently did a re-read of the entire series, including AFFC & ADWD spliced together so that they flowed better, and it really does make you realise how poor AFFC & ADWD are, especially in terms of pacing.  They were never going to translate well to TV, especially with so many new characters added (which halfway through a book series is ridiculous).  It was really telling for me that AGOT and ASOS were the two best books primarily because they introduced so few new characters.  And the major characters that were introduced, in ASOS, pretty much had their story arcs completed in that book.  The books actually felt like the first part of two trilogies. ACOK was a bit slow and upon a re-read I realised it's biggest faults actually lay with the new POV's and the introduction of a load of new characters.  But when ASOS came along you were familiar with those characters to the book flowed.  AFFC & ADWD are an absolute mess.  At a point in the story where the story should start being streamlined and steaming towards a resolution we have bloat, bloat,bloat and a whole raft of new characters.  The books are better on a re-read, because you know the characters (and can skip over the ones you don't like if that's your thing) but AFFC & ADWD are still ultimately poor books with an awful lot of repetition.  And what is most worrying is that despite having all the major players in, I'd say that ADWD is an inferior book to AFFC.

Sadly it also made me realise the books have had it.  I was desperate for TWOW to come out before the TV show.  Now I actually think it may be better for all parties concerned if it never came out.  GRRM has clearly lost his mojo and got so entangled with feeling he needs to justify viewpoints all over the place that he has lost control of his own story.  I actually don't believe that TWOW will be any better than AFFC or ADWD.

I genuinely thought that once the Meerenese Knot was resolved we'd get back on track.  But we aren't.  We are nowhere near.  This 3 part books series that became a 6 part series and now a 7 part series?  Isn't going to be finished in 7 books.  At least not unless he rushes a load of plots and starts bumping off characters left, right and centre with stories untold and story arcs unfulfilled.

However part of me always clung to the hope that the endgame at least was pretty well fleshed out and indeed it's the filler of trying to fulfill the events from the original 5 year gap that has given him the block.  I don't think he'll ever overcome that block but if he told the more original streamlined version to D&D then at least we may get a satisfactory resolution to the series.

Glad to know some people think along the same lines as me! Nice post.

I'm not sure I think the books are quite the mess you do, but they are certainly riddled with issues, and almost untranslatable to screen in some ways. The pacing of them and lack of any real events would kill the show off for starters. 

I'm now suspicious about what the end game was in the books. I know everyone thinks they have it all worked out, Dany gets to Westeros, there is a fight with the WW and the north etc. Fire and Ice. But it seems relatively simple, its hard to understand how GRRM is struggling to get all those pieces in order to make it happen. I always suspected there was something even bigger and more exciting in store, which is why he was suggesting even more books. But if D&D can get it done in such a small space, then how complicated could it all be.. and is Martin just complicating it all for no reason.

I think there might have been a turning point in the show where D&D realised they just need to get to the end because Martin wasn't going to provide them with anything to go on, and actually there wasn't much of a story outside of that core plot, which is why they have taken a scapel and removed many of the side plots. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Glad to know some people think along the same lines as me! Nice post.

I'm not sure I think the books are quite the mess you do, but they are certainly riddled with issues, and almost untranslatable to screen in some ways. The pacing of them and lack of any real events would kill the show off for starters. 

I'm now suspicious about what the end game was in the books. I know everyone thinks they have it all worked out, Dany gets to Westeros, there is a fight with the WW and the north etc. Fire and Ice. But it seems relatively simple, its hard to understand how GRRM is struggling to get all those pieces in order to make it happen. I always suspected there was something even bigger and more exciting in store, which is why he was suggesting even more books. But if D&D can get it done in such a small space, then how complicated could it all be.. and is Martin just complicating it all for no reason.

I think there might have been a turning point in the show where D&D realised they just need to get to the end because Martin wasn't going to provide them with anything to go on, and actually there wasn't much of a story outside of that core plot, which is why they have taken a scapel and removed many of the side plots. 

 

AFFC and ADWD to me were just so repetitive and also full of increasingly absurd characters that somehow didn't fit with the more gritty realistic nature of the first three books.  The whole Tyrion/Penny comic double act for example.  "Reek!  Reek!  It doesn't rhyme with get the f*ck on with it George!".  Ramsay is practically a cartoon character.  Some of it was quite well written to be fair but just didn't go anywhere at any necessary pace.  Jaime & Brienne's stories were very much like that.  We got it after their first chapter on the road.

After ASOS it was all so much of a comedown.  That book was breathlessly paced and ended in such a manner that I couldn't wait for the next book to read about the fallout from the events of that book.  And then there was the 5 year wait.  And a 6 year.  And for some characters that meant an 11 year wait.  And it was all so anti-climatic.

As for the ending?  Well it won't go down well on this forum but I've never bought into GRRM is telling a wonderfully different story.  The whole series has basically tradedarrow-10x10.png off of Eddard's shock death in AGOT.  The Red Wedding obviously also came close to that but then the only POV character to die in that chapter.........is now alive again.  So 5 books in and in reality only one of the original POV cast is dead.  And he died in the first book!  I love the series (well the first three books anyway) but the reputation it has about killing off main characters is a complete myth.  I think a lot of what GRRM does is very routine and the stories pretty straight forward.  Yes there are a few twists on the regular tales but they are still there.  The exiled Prince/Princess, the secret Prince/King, the Evil King (and Queen!) etc.  It's not GRRM's fault, because hardly any stories are original any more, but the books are still pretty predictable.

Anyway, back to the ending.  I think it all depends on how much faith you have in GRRM and in what he says.  I have very little any more.  But if he is to be believed the original ending is still going to the same.  With that in mind.....

1) After ASOS there was going to be a 5 year gap and the book titles reflected more accurately the events in the books.  ADWD was the 4th book and was going to focus on Dany's return to Westeros and the realm's reaction to it.  ADWD would almost certainly imply a conflict with Aegon and someone getting hold of at least one of Dany's dragons and there being another dance of dragons.

2) Book 5 was going to be TWOW.  And that implies the Others invasion.  So this is a problem we have with the current books.  If GRRM still means to go through with his original ending then it would seem likely that we have to wait until Dany arrives in Westeros BEFORE the Others invade.  This book would focus on man's struggle against the Others invasion.

3) Book 6's title was not yet confirmed but had a working title of a A Time for Wolves.  Interestingly this book has apparently been scrapped by GRRM.  I'd imagine it was a book where loose ends were tied up neatly and GRRM would show how the realm healed itself post-The Long Night.  Or maybe the bittersweet ending was simply mankind didn't learn a thing and just went back to its own selfish personal power struggles.  Who knows.  Now that this book has been shelved, does that mean the ending won't be bittersweet at all?

The problem for GRRM is now three fold.

Firstly the internet came along.  He probably thought he was being cryptic and clever with a lot of the foreshadowing and prophecy in the books.  And in his defence, he was.  No one could have accounted for the explosion of the internet or that hundreds of fans would have the opportunity to sit down and dissect each prophecy, foreshadowing etc to the point where much of it has been sussed out.

Secondly it took him too long to write.  It's actually crazy to think that when AGOT came out the internet was in its infancy.  The longer people have to think about the books, the more likely they are to suss things out.

Thirdly, it's now a TV show.  And thanks to point two the TV show has surpassed the books so the TV show will spoil all the major endings of the books.  GRRM is adamant he won't change the ending in the books.  I am not so sure.

 

 

 

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I never had to wait for books 4 and 5, and I read them in the suggested combined reading order, so I feel like I approached them with a lot less baggage than long-time fans. The pacing was far from perfect, but I  still felt that between new elements like Euron/Victarian/Aeron, Bloodraven and the Children of the forest , The House of Black and White/Braavos, the Griffs on the Royne, Reek, Ramsey, Roose and Lady Dustin in Winterfell, Lady Stoneheart in the riverlands, Manderley and the North conspiracy, Maester Marwyn and the citadel, The Martells in Dorne (including Dark Star) the Sparrow, the faith militant and Robert Strong in Kings Landing and the continuing sagas of Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Bran, Arya, Sansa, Jaime, Cersie, Davos, Sam, Theon, Brienne, Asha, Stannis, Selmy, Jorah, Stannis and Mel that the combined books 4 and 5 made for the most rewarding section of the series so far.
There are certainly some things I'd change and storylines I'd tighten up, but the way it seemed like Martin was finally beginning to pull all his strings together into a masterly tapestry whose scope and depth has rivaled anything else I've ever seen in genre storytelling.
Up til season 5 the number and level of changes I would have made to Game of Thrones amounted to a handful of scenes pertaining to prophecies and visions, Balon being found dead, a more cathartic Ygritte death scene and a much more Bloodraven looking Bloodraven.

I think the lack of Euron and Victarion in season 5 to pickup the villain slack left by the death of Tywin, Joffrey and the Mountain was one of the most stupendous fumbles D&D could have made. Euron and Victarion, are two incredibly distinctive dramatic figures and visual presences that would have dramatically bolstered the power of season 5... I know everybody figured they'd be combined to begin with I think that you really couldn't beat either of them as far as lending the show new cache of iconic characters to drum up the forward momentum of the series and injecting the show with some supremely marketable new attractions.

I thought that, on its head, sending Jaime to Dorne, with Bronn, was a very smart direction for D&D to take with Jaime that would have cut down on his more ruminative arc in 'feast' and tightened up the stories and stakes in Dorne... but like everybody else, I think the execution was dreadful.

As far as cutting LS and sending Sansa to Winterfell as Jeyne Poole, again, I think this was a smart move for both condensing and tightening the story, and I think it actually worked out pretty well.

I thought that killing Shireen was also a smart decision, and one that was executed with tremendous effectiveness, and I would have even really enjoyed the way Stannis' story wrapped up if D&D had Stannis survive his encounter with Brienne (but play it as if he died until halfway through this season)

I think Tyrion should have also taken the Royne with Varys and should have met up with the 2 griffs and the septa (with Varys playing the partof the maester and divulging the Aegon plan to Tyrion) but while I really miss the Aegon wrinkle I can understand why they cut it. Overall I like where Tyrion ended up, but I think that Selmy being injured but still mostly in charge of Mereen would have made much more sense then just having Daario and Jorah leave this relative stranger to rule in their queens stead

I also wish they would have started really playing up the idea of half of Essos converging on the city as well as the pale mare threat. I was super bummed to see Selmy go so soon, especially with the aforementioned oddness of leaving Tyrion alone to govern

Sam should have made for Oldtown earlier, giving us Marwyn by the end of the season
Jon, Arya, Cersie, Bran (or lack thereof), Dany, Sansa, Brienne, Theon, Davos, Mel and Stannis (-death) all had pretty excellent runs in season 5 as far as I'm concerned

That would have left season 6 with Stannis re-consolidating his forces, capturing Asha and some Ironborn, joining up with the Wildlings, Sansa and Theon joining the BWB, and the Manderly and Arryn forces waiting for word to turn cloak on the Boltons for a late season major battle at Winterfell/in the ice. Victarion and the Ironborn, Tyrion, the Unsullied, and the freed slaves, Dany, the Dothraki and the dragons converging on Mereen for a late season battle of Fire/Slavers bay. Sam, Gilly and the Tarly's around for an eary season Ironborn attack on Oldtown, the griffs and the Golden company ready for an early season raid on the stormlands. Cersie fighting the faith, Jaime doing whatever Jaime will be doing. Dorne less shitty than it was. Davos on a mission to retrieve Rickon after his early season standoff with the Night's Watch... but I guess I'm waiting for Winds of Winter much more than more GOT now

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They are slowly but steadily building a momentum for an epic end-battle, so perhaps Jon and Danny will join forces and defend humankind, alongside their allies. Perhaps some houses will overcome their bickering, and join forces, and the others will ally with WW.

I am only finishing the 1st book right now but here is the thing: What if - dragons get out of the control (and grow even more) and start burning (everything) from the south. At the same time, WW are attacking from the north. Humans, already divided and weak are found in between the rock and a hard place. That would create a total sense of despair and urgency. Just a theory, but I suspect some monumental event will take place, stakes will be high, then in those final 3 episodes the epic battle (on several fronts).

In Danny's vision (in the show), at one point she is in the throne room, it looks abandoned and frozen. It could be just "in vision" effect but who knows.

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On 4/25/2016 at 7:53 AM, Ser Gareth said:

There won't be anything superficial about it.  It will become the canon ending for the series.

Because the chances are that there will even be a book ending are slim to none.  I don't think the TV show is worthy of the global praise it gets but I am delighted we'll get an ending of some kind.  And I do think the core ending will be the same as the book.  Some of the journeys will be different but that's not D&D's fault.  That lies squarely with GRRM for not knowing himself and not finishing the books so that they can be adapted.

Naturally the TV show can never be completely accurately adapted a book.  No TV show can against any book.  But the core events from the first three books of the series were captured fairly satisfactorily in the TV show.  But after the source material from the those first three books ran out?  The TV show was always going to struggle as 1) so many of the new, ultimately meaningless, plots and story lines  from the books aren't resolved in the books and 2) AFFC & ADWD are poor books comparative to the first three and they introduced a whole load of new pointless characters that most people don't care about.

I recently did a re-read of the entire series, including AFFC & ADWD spliced together so that they flowed better, and it really does make you realise how poor AFFC & ADWD are, especially in terms of pacing.  They were never going to translate well to TV, especially with so many new characters added (which halfway through a book series is ridiculous).  It was really telling for me that AGOT and ASOS were the two best books primarily because they introduced so few new characters.  And the major characters that were introduced, in ASOS, pretty much had their story arcs completed in that book.  The books actually felt like the first part of two trilogies. ACOK was a bit slow and upon a re-read I realised it's biggest faults actually lay with the new POV's and the introduction of a load of new characters.  But when ASOS came along you were familiar with those characters to the book flowed.  AFFC & ADWD are an absolute mess.  At a point in the story where the story should start being streamlined and steaming towards a resolution we have bloat, bloat,bloat and a whole raft of new characters.  The books are better on a re-read, because you know the characters (and can skip over the ones you don't like if that's your thing) but AFFC & ADWD are still ultimately poor books with an awful lot of repetition.  And what is most worrying is that despite having all the major players in, I'd say that ADWD is an inferior book to AFFC.

Sadly it also made me realise the books have had it.  I was desperate for TWOW to come out before the TV show.  Now I actually think it may be better for all parties concerned if it never came out.  GRRM has clearly lost his mojo and got so entangled with feeling he needs to justify viewpoints all over the place that he has lost control of his own story.  I actually don't believe that TWOW will be any better than AFFC or ADWD.

I genuinely thought that once the Meerenese Knot was resolved we'd get back on track.  But we aren't.  We are nowhere near.  This 3 part books series that became a 6 part series and now a 7 part series?  Isn't going to be finished in 7 books.  At least not unless he rushes a load of plots and starts bumping off characters left, right and centre with stories untold and story arcs unfulfilled.

However part of me always clung to the hope that the endgame at least was pretty well fleshed out and indeed it's the filler of trying to fulfill the events from the original 5 year gap that has given him the block.  I don't think he'll ever overcome that block but if he told the more original streamlined version to D&D then at least we may get a satisfactory resolution to the series.

I agree with all of this, well said. Like I know the tv show is not perfect but hey at least it made me dust off my old account here to comment on it, so I'm already more enthusiastic about it than I am of the books. I sort of gave up on the series after the disappointment of aFfC and aDwD but at least the show is giving me hope that we'll get an actual ending, however flawed it may be. 

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  • 6 months later...
On 4/26/2016 at 4:23 PM, Ruhail said:

A Daenerys and Jon jerkfest probably

Most definitely and every single man, including Jamie/Bronn/Pod/The Hound, etc-who's not in her circle yet--will become magically besotted with Dany and pledge their lives and fealty to Khaleesi. The end. And Jon/Dany conquer the White Walkers and if they do die in the war, will be worshipped as deities by the good citizenry of Westeros, Essos and the universe. 

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On 4/24/2016 at 8:25 AM, GrapefruitPerrier said:

So, they state they have two short seasons of material for GoT left.  These could probably be filmed in one year.  So, what are they up to?

They have not announced a GoT spin-off on HBO.  Why not?  HBO would pay huge for this.  So, my expectation is after they finish the filming for this show, they announce some huge deal with Disney for films, or Netflix/Amazon for TV, or both.  

HBO does not have much original content at the moment, so it would be likely they have something on the go.

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On 4/25/2016 at 6:53 AM, Ser Gareth said:

There won't be anything superficial about it.  It will become the canon ending for the series.

Because the chances are that there will even be a book ending are slim to none.  I don't think the TV show is worthy of the global praise it gets but I am delighted we'll get an ending of some kind.  And I do think the core ending will be the same as the book.  Some of the journeys will be different but that's not D&D's fault.  That lies squarely with GRRM for not knowing himself and not finishing the books so that they can be adapted.

Naturally the TV show can never be completely accurately adapted a book.  No TV show can against any book.  But the core events from the first three books of the series were captured fairly satisfactorily in the TV show.  But after the source material from the those first three books ran out?  The TV show was always going to struggle as 1) so many of the new, ultimately meaningless, plots and story lines  from the books aren't resolved in the books and 2) AFFC & ADWD are poor books comparative to the first three and they introduced a whole load of new pointless characters that most people don't care about.

I recently did a re-read of the entire series, including AFFC & ADWD spliced together so that they flowed better, and it really does make you realise how poor AFFC & ADWD are, especially in terms of pacing.  They were never going to translate well to TV, especially with so many new characters added (which halfway through a book series is ridiculous).  It was really telling for me that AGOT and ASOS were the two best books primarily because they introduced so few new characters.  And the major characters that were introduced, in ASOS, pretty much had their story arcs completed in that book.  The books actually felt like the first part of two trilogies. ACOK was a bit slow and upon a re-read I realised it's biggest faults actually lay with the new POV's and the introduction of a load of new characters.  But when ASOS came along you were familiar with those characters to the book flowed.  AFFC & ADWD are an absolute mess.  At a point in the story where the story should start being streamlined and steaming towards a resolution we have bloat, bloat,bloat and a whole raft of new characters.  The books are better on a re-read, because you know the characters (and can skip over the ones you don't like if that's your thing) but AFFC & ADWD are still ultimately poor books with an awful lot of repetition.  And what is most worrying is that despite having all the major players in, I'd say that ADWD is an inferior book to AFFC.

Sadly it also made me realise the books have had it.  I was desperate for TWOW to come out before the TV show.  Now I actually think it may be better for all parties concerned if it never came out.  GRRM has clearly lost his mojo and got so entangled with feeling he needs to justify viewpoints all over the place that he has lost control of his own story.  I actually don't believe that TWOW will be any better than AFFC or ADWD.

I genuinely thought that once the Meerenese Knot was resolved we'd get back on track.  But we aren't.  We are nowhere near.  This 3 part books series that became a 6 part series and now a 7 part series?  Isn't going to be finished in 7 books.  At least not unless he rushes a load of plots and starts bumping off characters left, right and centre with stories untold and story arcs unfulfilled.

However part of me always clung to the hope that the endgame at least was pretty well fleshed out and indeed it's the filler of trying to fulfill the events from the original 5 year gap that has given him the block.  I don't think he'll ever overcome that block but if he told the more original streamlined version to D&D then at least we may get a satisfactory resolution to the series.

This is an absolute mess of a post. 

 

AGOT is one of the best books for you because it introduces so few new characters even though every character would be a new character for you in the first book? Lmao

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They simply gonna streamline books and put on the screen only necessary things. They always said Red Wedding and AsoS was for them moment where they had to go, after that it slowly became their version of the story. At times it's good and then bad. It just lacks especially in writing because otherwise GoT is top notch, casting CGI, locations, cinematography and whole team around it.

I just hope, that the ending is same or at least very similiar. I would hate in 10 years time reading the books and let's be honest, that's how long it will take...to read a different ending. Road to it will be different or very different but wnding should be the same.

Also, as George told three twists of which two already happened Shireen's death and Hodor but again lacking context. Doubt, it will happen like that in the books. Even Rickon's fate.

As someone said here, D&D are burned out by GoT and it's a highly demanding job 24/7 for the whole year but we're not sure how many episodes will be in season 8. Migjt be 6, 7 or 8 but not more. But these short seasons will cover same amount of content. For money, infrastructure and logistics it was better to do short seasons.

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On 4/25/2016 at 8:26 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Glad to know some people think along the same lines as me! Nice post.

I'm not sure I think the books are quite the mess you do, but they are certainly riddled with issues, and almost untranslatable to screen in some ways. The pacing of them and lack of any real events would kill the show off for starters. 

I'm now suspicious about what the end game was in the books. I know everyone thinks they have it all worked out, Dany gets to Westeros, there is a fight with the WW and the north etc. Fire and Ice. But it seems relatively simple, its hard to understand how GRRM is struggling to get all those pieces in order to make it happen. I always suspected there was something even bigger and more exciting in store, which is why he was suggesting even more books. But if D&D can get it done in such a small space, then how complicated could it all be.. and is Martin just complicating it all for no reason.

I think there might have been a turning point in the show where D&D realised they just need to get to the end because Martin wasn't going to provide them with anything to go on, and actually there wasn't much of a story outside of that core plot, which is why they have taken a scapel and removed many of the side plots. 

 

I have wondered for some time if Martin's end game was not more like the War of Wrath from Tolkien, than the end of LOTR.

By that I mean that the war between the WW and men with fundamentally change the world, Not just we win, they lose, winter ends and the good guy(in this case Girl) gets the throne, but the world after is completely different than the world before (No Dragons, no magic......) and a different relationship with the gods.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 25 April 2016 at 9:32 PM, Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren said:

I am pretty sure they are setting up Dorne to get burned by Daenery's dragons. Also Daenerys and at least one of her dragons save the day against the Others.

I think they will keep some superficial similarities with the book ending, at least for Daenerys but rush, and change much when it comes to the journey to that destination. Dorne leadership being more irrational and murderous might also be part of that, making it easier to swallow when Dorne gets burnt.

Why would Dany's coalition burn their allies?

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