What is D and D's endgame?

[Alayne's Shadow.]

3 hours ago, TepidHands said:

 Ah, yes, dear, sweet Shireen, whose very existence -- and the extinguishing of same -- were purely a plot device in show as evidence of her father's enormous wickedness and her mother's insanity. She remains quite alive in the books, but possibly doomed, kind of a Schrödinger's Shireen.

[Woman of War]

We all know now that Shireen will die in the books and actuallly there are enough hints in both book and show, so everybody could see it coming. But especially in the show Shireen was far more than a tertiary character. And the performance and that fragile charisma of Kerry Ingram made me care for her even more than for Sansa, knowing that she is doomed. I guess I am not the only one here, so for many the true emotional shock was Shireen, not Sansa. Of course one can compare the emotional impact of two characters that originally were close to main character and close to nothing! Emotions are something that just happens. It did happen: Shireen climbed the emotional importance ladder while Sansa stayed where she was. And it was Ingram, together with Cunningham and Dillane of course, who made it happen. A rare chemistry.

So - to me and maybe to many others - Shireen's fate was far more touching than Sansa's - so far.

 

[Neds Secret]

Too get rich whilst doing the worst adaptation of AsoiaF possible, after completely engaging an audience with 3 brilliant first seasons they are really proving that "winter is coming"! Unfortunately it was meant to be "in the show", but D$D have managed to make winter come for the show by putting out the most illogical, anachronistic, and pointless plots  smashed into the show causing it to be a horrible thing to witness! That's my take, anyway.

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Too get rich whilst doing the worst adaptation of AsoiaF possible, after completely engaging an audience with 3 brilliant first seasons they are really proving that "winter is coming"! Unfortunately it was meant to be "in the show", but D$D have managed to make winter come for the show by putting out the most illogical, anachronistic, and pointless plots  smashed into the show causing it to be a horrible thing to witness! That's my take, anyway.

Yes, I suppose the endgame is the collection of the most shocking moments put altogether in TV history.

I hope some of these moments are long-built romances (after all, for many people might be shocking too).

[A Ghost of Someone]

Regarding D&D, they are the two main producers who pretty much, together, outweigh every other producer put together. Still, their are other producers, the main one after them seem to be Bryan Cogman who certainly is also a writer and has a strong influence on the show. There are others, like GRRM himself who seem more like an honorary sort of speak but he gets his awards as part ot the producer group. Money, Fame and Satisfaction is what drives them as a whole.

[myhalfgroat]

22 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Too get rich whilst doing the worst adaptation of AsoiaF possible, after completely engaging an audience with 3 brilliant first seasons they are really proving that "winter is coming"! Unfortunately it was meant to be "in the show", but D$D have managed to make winter come for the show by putting out the most illogical, anachronistic, and pointless plots  smashed into the show causing it to be a horrible thing to witness! That's my take, anyway.

easy solution. stop watching.

if it is truly "a horrible thing to witness" then stop. no one is forcing this upon you. 

maybe while you're not watching one of the most awarded shows in television history, you could pass your time with these adaptations and tell me point by point how they are better than "the worst adaptations of AsoiaF possible": 

 

[Neds Secret]

4 hours ago, myhalfgroat said:

easy solution. stop watching.

if it is truly "a horrible thing to witness" then stop. no one is forcing this upon you. 

maybe while you're not watching one of the most awarded shows in television history, you could pass your time with these adaptations and tell me point by point how they are better than "the worst adaptations of AsoiaF possible": 

 

[John Doe]

Destroy every interesting arc after the Red Wedding. 

[k i n g]

Kill all the characters except for Bran Stark.

[Meera of Tarth]

On 7/12/2016 at 4:35 PM, A Ghost of Someone said:

Regarding D&D, they are the two main producers who pretty much, together, outweigh every other producer put together. Still, their are other producers, the main one after them seem to be Bryan Cogman who certainly is also a writer and has a strong influence on the show. There are others, like GRRM himself who seem more like an honorary sort of speak but he gets his awards as part ot the producer group. Money, Fame and Satisfaction is what drives them as a whole.

Might I not completely agree with you.....I think Emmys are their main concern. (see BOTB).

[The Dragon Demands]

It is wrong to assume D&D have an "endgame" in the sense of a stable goal.  There are one or two major things like character deaths which are tangentially similar to what may happen in the novels, but the circumstances changed so significantly that they can't really be said to be the same thing:  will Shireen be burned as a sacrifice? Yes, but *in what context*?  Some of these things changed very significantly even when they act like they're basically the same thing.

But more importantly....we have confirmed info from the DVD and such that say, Dorne in Season 5....was something they added in spur of the moment.  Yes, 40 minutes of screentime and a new major location, added in without much thought. 

Or look at how Alexander Siddig said they didn't really plan out that his character would get killed off - though that is a special case, them just dropping a meteorite on the Dorne storyline. 

on the other hand, a lot was in flux in season 5 what with the contract dispute meaning they might only get 7 seasons (when they always wanted 8 seasons). 

Thus.....their "endgame" is generally in flux, and they've been so willing to change even *their own* plans so much that I don't know what we can base analysis on.

It's not like how we try to guess how Martin will end the novels. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

31 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I would love to see a plot developed (written) through months of dedication, the same they do for the production.

But apparently, script is not as important. Who cares?

CGI and big budget, including big bucks from HBO and the Corporations behind it. It is a shame the writing could not be better but considering the audience, some people, most of them are for the cheap thrills, lets see which stars will go nude, blood, dragons and root for villains. D&D&C are laughing all the way to the bank and the record books. Daddy's bank that is.

[Meera of Tarth]

15 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

CGI and big budget, including mig bucks from HBO and the Corporations behind it. It is a shame the writing could not be better but considering the audience, some people, most of them are for the cheap thrills, lets see which stars will go nude, blood, dragons and root for villains. D&D&C are laughing all the way to the bank and the record books. Daddy's bank that is.

Yes, GOT has an status now and many people watch them for entertaining purposes (dragons, tits).

It's a shame it started as an interesting story and they destroyed it. And there is a lot of people (the majority, I'd say) who might be disappointed by this new treatment of the show, but they will be ignored. What can they say, anyway? The critics have been from all colours.

It's also sad for those people who were introduced to the show, like myself included, and who used to love it, and are invested in some characters and want to see what happens to them. But apparently, our voice is redundant for some fanatism, which is the opinion of the mass media (constant propaganda of the product as if it was the best in TV history). It's also ironic when others tell you not to watch it because they don't want to hear everyone's genuine and respectful opinions. In this case I'd say, do not read what others write.

I was completely invested in the show, I loved it, and I am terribly disappointed in what it has become. Having said that, I have no shame to admit I still love some things and I am looking forward to them, and even if I disliked each and every line of it I'd watch it just because I want to. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

I watched the pilot and got the books right after.The first season was faithful. season 2 less so, 3 even lesser, four dragged out and 5 lost it. The diversions they have taken cast darkness not just on the show but the persons who made the calls to divert the way they did.

[Meera of Tarth]

25 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I watched the pilot and got the books right after.The first season was faithful. season 2 less so, 3 even lesser, four dragged out and 5 lost it. The diversions they have taken cast darkness not just on the show but the persons who made the calls to divert the way they did.

I was lucky enough not to read the books after s4, and, consequently, on my first time watching it I enjoyed the 4 of them, especially the third and the first. The second time, I was more annoyed with some things, but I didn't change my mind on which seasons was better than others. However, there were some things that get on my nerves even in my first time (I don't want to mention them at this moment 'cuase the list is long and makes me nervous).

It is ironic I read the last books so as to see an adaptation in s5, and that seasons had barely to do with "adapting" anything. Probably that conditioned I truly hate that season, overall.  I enjoyed the adapted parts from s5 only, the scenes that were a copy from the book, and nothing more. It was like, this one! this one! I looked stupid when tried to think Mance was not Mance, or still thought Arys, Arianne or Aegon would appear. Let's not mention other things, because the list is so long. Hardhome was entertaining, but I can't understand how it is rated 9.9 on IMDB, it's a 6 maximum to me (and because of the battle part).

The sixth season got some things right again, the ones they adapted from the books IMO (of course with some exceptions) but the fact I had no book to compare with was something that made me feel more positive about it. The fact I was accustomed to the recent stupitidy of some characters (Sansa, Tyrion, Jon...) made me feel less concerned about it than when watching s5,as well. I despised certain scenes, but you just get accustomed to these things, it's so sad. Bran returning was something to consider too.

[A Ghost of Someone]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I was lucky enough not to read the books after s4, and, consequently, on my first time watching it I enjoyed the 4 of them, especially the third and the first. The second time, I was more annoyed with some things, but I didn't change my mind on which seasons was better than others. However, there were some things that get on my nerves even in my first time (I don't want to mention them at this moment 'cuase the list is long and makes me nervous).

It is ironic I read the last books so as to see an adaptation in s5, and that seasons had barely to do with "adapting" anything. Probably that conditioned I truly hate that season, overall.  I enjoyed the adapted parts from s5 only, the scenes that were a copy from the book, and nothing more. It was like, this one! this one! I looked stupid when tried to think Mance was not Mance, or still thought Arys, Arianne or Aegon would appear. Let's not mention other things, because the list is so long. Hardhome was entertaining, but I can't understand how it is rated 9.9 on IMDB, it's a 6 maximum to me (and because of the battle part).

The sixth season got some things right again, the ones they adapted from the books IMO (of course with some exceptions) but the fact I had no book to compare with was something that made me feel more positive about it. The fact I was accustomed to the recent stupitidy of some characters (Sansa, Tyrion, Jon...) made me feel less concerned about it than when watching s5,as well. I despised certain scenes, but you just get accustomed to these things, it's so sad. Bran returning was something to consider too.

I went as far in Book 1 as the episode that just aired. It went pretty much even. Then, I read the other 3 books and gobbled ADWD in a week.

[Meera of Tarth]

Just now, A Ghost of Someone said:

I went as far in Book 1 as the episode that just aired. It went pretty much even. Then, I read the other 3 books and gobbled ADWD in a week.

It's a different approach, so I totally understand you disliked things before me. I'd probably have experienced something similar if I had read the books first.

But even on a rewatch, I still see a great difference from I'd, say the last episode of s4. And s6 was good to me for some storylines, the others were just as stupid as the trend that s5 started, just that I got more accustomed, and when Bran appears, I can rate a episode +3.

The power of 5 minutes of screentime. My prince.

[A Ghost of Someone]

8 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It's a different approach, so I totally understand you disliked things before me. I'd probably have experienced something similar if I had read the books first.

But even on a rewatch, I still see a great difference from I'd, say the last episode of s4. And s6 was good to me for some storylines, the others were just as stupid as the trend that s5 started, just that I got more accustomed, and when Bran appears, I can rate a episode +3.

The power of 5 minutes of screentime. My prince.

There are some differences in Season 1 but compared to the other years, there is clear ripple effects. The creators, D&D&C have liberally used their adaptational descresion to tell their own version of what they think or want to go down. The favorites are clear and the ones they want to punish are just as clear. Take Tyrion and Sansa who are presented very different on the show compared to their book characters. I think most show viewers who love Tyrion would dislike/hate book Tyrion if  and when they read him. Also, show Sansa haters find her book character, especially after Ned's death, quite endearing and inspirational. These addaptation changes are clearly in the personal interests of D&D&C. It is very indicative.

[Dragon in the North]

2 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

CGI and big budget, including big bucks from HBO and the Corporations behind it. It is a shame the writing could not be better but considering the audience, some people, most of them are for the cheap thrills, lets see which stars will go nude, blood, dragons and root for villains. D&D&C are laughing all the way to the bank and the record books. Daddy's bank that is.

Saying that viewers only watch GOT for "cheap thrills" is simply an immature way to undervalue their opinion. I watch GOT for the same reasons I watch Better Call Saul, The Americans, Stranger Things, and Westworld. I am interested in the story and its characters. I watch the show because I enjoyed the theme that absolute power corrupts absolutely. See what happened when Cersei gave the High Sparrow even a taste of power? It consumed him, and he took every liberty to abuse his power. I also enjoy how the show portrays its characters in a certain way that you could hate them in one season, but then love them in the next. This is especially true for the Hound, Theon, Tormund, and Stannis. Characters such as Tywin, Roose, and Joffrey are so well-rounded that even though they're despicable, I was sad to see them go. I'm not saying mistakes weren't made, because there were. But the other shows I mentioned also have flaws. What matters to me is if the positives outweigh the negatives, and that is definitely the case as far as GOT is concerned. It's clear to me that D&D are quite passionate about the project and work tirelessly year round to give us high quality product. The production of the show only seems to get bigger and bigger with each passing season. If they were only interested in money and awards, like some of you are suggesting, they would take HBO's advice and continue the series for as long as possible. However, they know that stretching the story out would diminish the quality of said story, and telling a good story is their number one concern.

[A Ghost of Someone]

17 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Saying that viewers only watch GOT for "cheap thrills" is simply an immature way to undervalue their opinion. I watch GOT for the same reasons I watch Better Call Saul, The Americans, Stranger Things, and Westworld. I am interested in the story and its characters. I watch the show because I enjoyed the theme that absolute power corrupts absolutely. See what happened when Cersei gave the High Sparrow even a taste of power? It consumed him, and he took every liberty to abuse his power. I also enjoy how the show portrays its characters in a certain way that you could hate them in one season, but then love them in the next. This is especially true for the Hound, Theon, Tormund, and Stannis. Characters such as Tywin, Roose, and Joffrey are so well-rounded that even though they're despicable, I was sad to see them go. I'm not saying mistakes weren't made, because there were. But the other shows I mentioned also have flaws. What matters to me is if the positives outweigh the negatives, and that is definitely the case as far as GOT is concerned. It's clear to me that D&D are quite passionate about the project and work tirelessly year round to give us high quality product. The production of the show only seems to get bigger and bigger with each passing season. If they were only interested in money and awards, like some of you are suggesting, they would take HBO's advice and continue the series for as long as possible. However, they know that stretching the story out would diminish the quality of said story, and telling a good story is their number one concern.

I do think most of  the show fans do watch it for the "thrills" and pay little or no attention as to why characters do what they do or if it makes sense. 

I am sure D&D&C (C is for Cogman as in Bryan Cogman) are passionate about what they present, I only wish that they were as passionate about making it coherent.