[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

[teemo]

32 minutes ago, Guess who's back said:

Hey look at me. Someone likes something that I don't. How dare they. 

? I was just saying that I find it kind of crazy how many book readers are in love with that episode, especially on that particular subreddit where people are usually pretty critical, which is why I posted it.  It's not about one particular person....and this is kind of the thread to criticize the show.  Why are you here?

[protar]

I think I have found something of an inner peace with the show. It's awful, but now that it's passed the books, and is confirmed not to meaningfully spoil anything due to all the changes in the plot, I can just fully enjoy snarking about it. 

Dorne was awful. Not much more to be said than that. The rest of the episode was just kind of meh. Like not much of note really happens except at the Wall where things don't make much sense. If everyone is so angry at Thorne for killing Jon, how did things not come to a second mutiny? He gives one short speech and they just grumble acquiescence. Davos is perhaps the only good thing about the show right now.

[teemo]

3 minutes ago, protar said:

I think I have found something of an inner peace with the show. It's awful, but now that it's passed the books, and is confirmed not to meaningfully spoil anything due to all the changes in the plot, I can just fully enjoy snarking about it. 

Dorne was awful. Not much more to be said than that. The rest of the episode was just kind of meh. Like not much of note really happens except at the Wall where things don't make much sense. If everyone is so angry at Thorne for killing Jon, how did things not come to a second mutiny? He gives one short speech and they just grumble acquiescence. Davos is perhaps the only good thing about the show right now.

Hey you!

And I agree, it's at least nice to know that most of this stuff is now made up and won't even be part of the books at all.  Makes it less spoiler-y to a degree at least.

[messem]

5 hours ago, Liz Stark-Targaryen said:

 I can't help but wonder if last night's bloodbath means House Martell will be extinct by the end of the series. 

As I see it House Martell went extinct in the last episode.

[messem]

7 hours ago, Epyon said:

==The North:  I didn't even notice that, Roose blames Ramsey for losing Sansa, WHILE he was leading the cavalry.... until some one brought it up here, and now it annoys the hell out of me.

== I fail to see how Cersei hasn't just had the Lannister army ride in and murder all the Sparrows.... Or how Jaime didn't do it immediately upon getting back.... Taking royals hostage, and torturing them has to be a crime in and of itself.... one worthy of handling I'd imagine....

==I found it hilarious/my gf got upset over the fact that, even without a single other person in the room...... The writers found a reason for Melisandre to get topless/naked. It's as if when confronted with any problem in life, Melisandre's first instinct is to remove her shirt, and see if her tits can solve the problem just by being out in the breeze.

I've got issues with some of your points.

The North: Firstly, Roose likes to mindfuck Ramsey. Secondly, IT IS Ramsey's responsibility to take care of his wife. 

KL: Cersei had a few bad weeks AND has Marg and Loras exactly where she wanted them in the first place. Why would she consider a bloodbath?

Melisandre: Yeah, totally arbitrary nudity. Who in the name of R'hllor removes his clothes before going to bed? Never heard of such a custom. Ridiculous!

[teemo]

Well, lots of shows show people undressing without actually showing nudity, even on cable.  Just saying.  It definitely felt like a tit quota thing to me.  But I think we're way beyond that now....we all know there is a boob quota.  

[protar]

For me it wasn't so much that she was naked, more that she took the time to stare at herself naked in the mirror. And okay who doesn't do that from time to time, but it definitely felt gratuitous. I've got to give a little kudos to D+D for having nudity that wasn't sexy, but it just felt like a really shoe-horned way to reveal her true form. Like does she compare her young and old forms every night? Surely this should be pretty routine for her.

[MotherofStrife]

9 minutes ago, protar said:

For me it wasn't so much that she was naked, more that she took the time to stare at herself naked in the mirror. And okay who doesn't do that from time to time, but it definitely felt gratuitous. I've got to give a little kudos to D+D for having nudity that wasn't sexy, but it just felt like a really shoe-horned way to reveal her true form. Like does she compare her young and old forms every night? Surely this should be pretty routine for her.

The boob quota is real, no doubt.

 

It's funny, it sort of drives me crazy that no one never wears any underwear, ever. Are they not invented yet? It's hilarious. 

[Dolorous Gabe]

8 hours ago, nekrohsis said:

Riddle me this: what exactly does Mel being secretly old add to the plot? Like, how does that advance the story? We already know she has magic powers and a mysterious backstory. So she's using magic to make herself forever young and beautiful? Okay! Fine! But that does nothing to change the course of the story. So why are people saying it's so shocking? For the exact same reason we have all those memes about "take the girl swimming on the first date." People are shocked because Mel's role in the story is to serve up sex appeal. Not to be an actual character. 

Which is like, fine. She's pretty sexy. But the fact so many people are acting like this is a giant twist is because the show has made Mel's sex appeal more important than her actual personality. Like, maybe if we'd seen a scene where she tells Jon Snow to keep guards around him, because appearances matter (a major theme of her POV chapter) and then we'd seen that she's using magic to control her appearance, it'd tell us something about her character--that she's politically savvy and understands the dynamics of power. Book readers have known all along Mel uses magic to control her looks--red eyes, anyone? Her being older than she looks isn't shocking at all--it's something we generally assume to be true. In the books, Mel's appearance is a tool she uses to further her goal: saving the world from the Others.  In the show, Mel's appearance isn't hers to use--it exists to titillate, then to shock male viewers. Cutting the stuff from her POV chapter about Jon and appearances single-handedly injects loads of sexism into the plot.

Very true. And of course, we've been reliably informed that Mance using a glamor would have just been totally ludicrous in this fantasy world!

the truth of it is that the Mance glamor is used in the books to further hint at the possibility that Mel is using one herself. The show, as usual, has dispensed with the big hint and gone straight to the shock!

[Neds Secret]

1 hour ago, The Boastful Knight said:

Of course there is none. They're making everything up as they go. There's backtracking and retconning all over the place. I bet it's been years they read any of the books. GRRM may have told them what he's planning and even then they have no obligation to follow that. But I think they'll try anyway in their half-assed way and fail big time, like they always do. See, I think they don't really care. So there is no endgame for any of the storylines, because, they change things on a whim. You know, everything makes sense to them creatively, because they want it to happen. Screw logic, story progression, consistency, character motivations, plot, themes etc. 

[protar]

1 hour ago, The Boastful Knight said:

Of course there is none. They're making everything up as they go. There's backtracking and retconning all over the place. I bet it's been years they read any of the books. GRRM may have told them what he's planning and even then they have no obligation to follow that. But I think they'll try anyway in their half-assed way and fail big time, like they always do. See, I think they don't really care. So there is no endgame for any of the storylines, because, they change things on a whim. You know, everything makes sense to them creatively, because they want it to happen. Screw logic, story progression, consistency, character motivations, plot, themes etc. 

I really think that D+D just kind of stopped caring a few seasons ago. If you look at all of their old interviews, it's clear that their plan was just to get to the Red Wedding. They had no plan after that and they still don't have one now. Once Tywin died that was their last ounce of passion for the story out the window and it really shows. They'd rather the show was wrapped up quickly while HBO is pressuring them to go 8 seasons. Which is a real shame because at this point the show is doing well enough that under more passionate show runners HBO would happily let GOT go for 10 seasons, which could have given Martin time to get the books out, and allowed a more faithful adaptation. D+D really should have handed over the reigns after season 3. 

[SevasTra82]

Now that I watched the episode on my DVR finally, here are a few things that stuck out to me....

- How did the Sand Snakes get to the boat that quickly?  Did they have a motor boat?  They where on the docks watching the ship leave, then end up on the ship at KL almost right away.  Did they tail them?  Very odd timing.

- What happened to the Hounds during the fight with Brienne?  They just....disappeared.

- Speaking of Brienne, I'm getting more and more convinced that her whole purpose is to just be a "convenient killer" for the show.  That seems to be the only thing she's doing anymore.  Randomly showing up and killing.

- So your telling me that none of the Dothraki recognize Dany?  They had no problems knowing who Khal Drogo was, but *nobody* recognized Drogo's silver-haired dragon queen?  That really made no sense to me.  Dany sticks out like a sore thumb amongst them.  I find it hard to believe that they new power-to-be didn't know who she was.

- Hey look!  A small, nickel-sized ring conveniently placed in the center of a dirt circle and found between all the over-grown grass.  Talk about a coincidence.

- Soo.....Jaime and Cersei are on good terms again?  I *hate* this, as they are on the opposite tracks in the books.

- I don't think I need to mention what happening in Dorne...it's pretty obvious how bad that is.

 

After watching this episode, I'm 100% convinced that the books and show are now completely separate.  Nothing the show does from here on out will spoil the books, IMO.  They are completely different entities.

[Nerevanin]

Dorne is just stupid in the show. I disliked the first Dorne scenes in S5 as well and with each scene they just get worse and worse.

How did Obara and the other Snake got onto the ship in KL? Were they on the ship the whole time (no, because of the scenes of Ellaria taking antidote) or was there a ship following the other ship the whole time and no one noticed and no one minded letting the Snakes on board? Like

Meanwhile in Dorne: Ellaria and the other Snake kill the Prince, his bodyguard and the maester and none of the guards even blinked. Don't tell me that Ellaria bribed or something everyone in the palace not to intervene in case something unpleasant would happen. 

I didn't really got how the Bolton men managed to pursuit Theon and Sansa across the river. One second they were on one bank of the river and then suddenly on the other one, absolutely without any doubts finding Theon and Sansa. While Brienne probably has a radar in her bra considering how she found Sansa and saved the day. This whole thing was a bit wierd imo but nothing beats Dorne.

[A Ghost of Someone]

You know, if it is true that a couple of years ago or a year ago, that D&D&C sat down with GRRM to get caught up on what the end game is. If I were GRRM and they already told me about what they planned for Sansa, omitting key person and expanding others, I would say, "why do you care, you are not planning to follow the books anyway"? Seriously, no matter what they do with Sansa, nothing can erase the obvious, her marrying and getting the rape treatment was absolutely over the top unnecessary when every reason to hate the Boltons, Lannisters and Freys was already known to her. The worst part of it, is that Littlefinger has obviously led her to ruin, she probably is not going to hold it against him but I still have a faint hope, that she does and he dies this year too. If 13-15 episodes left after this season, we need time for the Others/White Walkers to start invading and Dany to get off her ass and come west.

[TepidHands]

15 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I was really sad to see some reviewers buying the 'woman on top' girrl power Dorne fiasco as some kind of insane feminism where killing your own family is a good thing.  That was so ass backwards as to make 'bad pussy' 'slap game' look logical.

This so much. I hated that Dorne butchery (and I'm talking script here). What were they thinking? Are they planning on seating a bastard Sand as Princess of Dorne? The show seemed to be implying that; either that or they're just going to dump Dorne and pretend it never happened. But even so, "Greedy bitch," like "slut" and "bad pussy" last year, is so sneeringly faux-progressive sexist. 

More "women on top":

Fansa has to be wheedled into wading through a cold river by Theon and prompted by Pod on something she ought to know.

Carol doesn't blame Larry for letting another of her kids get killed. She blames HERSELF for not listening to him! 

Mel? Oh yeah! She's not really beautiful; she's an old hag with saggy boobs, and all the fanboys go "HA-ha Stannis tapped dat."  Was there any reason to show her full-frontal except to engender SHOCK among all those lads who had enjoyed watching her disrobe so many times? 

 

 

 

 

[Mindwalker]

http://chrysreviews.com/index.php/2016/04/25/game-of-thrones-season-6-episode-1-schrodingers-crone/

https://imgur.com/a/MSh3G#YYEV46A

[Company of the Cat]

I think everything that needs to be said about Dorne has already been said here. I will only echo that it was such a waste of the talents of Alexander Siddig. Had he been given a chance to play the actual Doran Martell, he would have done a fantastic job - but all hopes of that ever happening were stabbed in the chest. Also, I've seen a couple of people claiming that this was a 'good episode for women' and I'm guessing this is because of Ellaria and the Sand Snake's 'empowering' overthrow of the incompetent men, and Sansa's inexplicable story arc? This isn't the first time where attempts have been made to score 'progressive' points but this is just so hamfisted and obvious.

[messem]

1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

Now that I watched the episode on my DVR finally, here are a few things that stuck out to me....

- How did the Sand Snakes get to the boat that quickly?  Did they have a motor boat?  They where on the docks watching the ship leave, then end up on the ship at KL almost right away.  Did they tail them?  Very odd timing.

- So your telling me that none of the Dothraki recognize Dany?  They had no problems knowing who Khal Drogo was, but *nobody* recognized Drogo's silver-haired dragon queen?  That really made no sense to me.  Dany sticks out like a sore thumb amongst them.  I find it hard to believe that they new power-to-be didn't know who she was.

- Hey look!  A small, nickel-sized ring conveniently placed in the center of a dirt circle and found between all the over-grown grass.  Talk about a coincidence.

- I don't think I need to mention what happening in Dorne...it's pretty obvious how bad that is.

Let me help you:

SS: The travel from Sunspear to KL lasts weeks. So the Sand Snakes could have taken a slightly faster boat a day later and could have arrived at the same time. You know what would've helped? A shot of a second boat besides the first one. As it is it looks like teleporting. 

Recognizing Dany: You do know they don't have a yellow press with printed pictures, do you? You find a silver-haired woman strolling alone in and think of a Khal's wife, Serioulsy? You know, I'm from rather white part of the world but I never thought "Hey, that's Michelle Obama" when I saw a black woman.

The ring: It was set up in the last episode of S5. And it was rather easy to find in the middle of that circle. You know what was hard to find? The circle. How in seven hells did they find that exact spot in the vast Dothraki Sea? 

Dorne: No explanation for that

[Cas Stark]

33 minutes ago, TepidHands said:

This so much. I hated that Dorne butchery (and I'm talking script here). What were they thinking? Are they planning on seating a bastard Sand as Princess of Dorne? The show seemed to be implying that; either that or they're just going to dump Dorne and pretend it never happened. But even so, "Greedy bitch," like "slut" and "bad pussy" last year, is so sneeringly faux-progressive sexist. 

More "women on top":

Fansa has to be wheedled into wading through a cold river by Theon and prompted by Pod on something she ought to know.

Carol doesn't blame Larry for letting another of her kids get killed. She blames HERSELF for not listening to him! 

Mel? Oh yeah! She's not really beautiful; she's an old hag with saggy boobs, and all the fanboys go "HA-ha Stannis tapped dat."  Was there any reason to show her full-frontal except to engender SHOCK among all those lads who had enjoyed watching her disrobe so many times? 

 

 

 

 

Carol's resignation to her children's deaths was a little strange, I wonder if this is going to somehow set up Crazy Carol who decides that since Tommen is a dead guy walking anyway...she chooses revenge over her last remaining child?  Otherwise, it would be one of the many random 180s done by show characters.  She berates him as an imbecile when he leaves for Dorne, but when he comes back with their daughter's corpse, she's not even miffed, it's not his fault, he was right all along, nothing he could have done....

I don't doubt that either Ellaria or the snakes will be running Dorne, or it will simply be a hanging plot hole...who is the ruler of Dorne will never be mentioned...we will only see Medea Ellaria and the snakes doing whatever other revenge plots they have going until hopefully they get killed too and the whole pain of the Dorne story can be ended.

I think Mel is going to sacrifice herself for Jon now that the audience is grossed out that she's old, LMAO.  It would mean her vision of herself at Winterfell was false, which will make no sense, but GOT doesn't need to make sense.  It only needs to have high production values, mostly good actors and SHOCKINGLY DYNAMIC SHOCKS.

[WolfQueenArya]

I hope Dorne won't be in this season much because it's pointless. 

I really wonder where they are going with this season if they want to get done in 13 more episode after this season. The Others must break down the wall and start invading and Dany has to get Westeros with her dragons by the end of this season to accomplish finishing up the story in that time frame. I really don't know how they are going to do it.