[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

[Milady of York]

Hello, people:

The documentary on GOT that Miodrag Zarkovic had been preparing since last year is finally completed, and will be aired soon.

You can watch the trailer here: Fair Game.

[Holymoly]

10% of the series devoted to "previously on GoT". Nothing much happens aside from a swift metaphorical kick in the nuts to some peripheral characters and the writers chanting "we ain't in Kansas no more, you haven't got GRRM looking out for you now".

This is the trouble of effectively trying to tell the story of WW2 from the point of view of everyone involved. When Winston Churchill tried it he ditched the idea of describing what people had for breakfast every day instead opting for the grand strategic view. This is GRRM and the tv writers' downfall. You can do one or the other, and if you elect to do the former you have to restrict your vista.

Keeping with the WW2 metaphor I'm pretty sure if you did examine the deeds and intentions of all the major players they wouldn't coalesce into a coherent single thread. There would be radical departures from the overall story all over the place. Accordingly it's a waste of time people criticising the writers for "out of character aberations", that is the lot of human beings. We don't all conform to some perceived norm.

Accept the series for what it is. Glamourised medieval pap with boobs.

[SevasTra82]

32 minutes ago, messem said:

Let me help you:

SS: The travel from Sunspear to KL lasts weeks. So the Sand Snakes could have taken a slightly faster boat a day later and could have arrived at the same time. You know what would've helped? A shot of a second boat besides the first one. As it is it looks like teleporting. 

Recognizing Dany: You do know they don't have a yellow press with printed pictures, do you? You find a silver-haired woman strolling alone in and think of a Khal's wife, Serioulsy? You know, I'm from rather white part of the world but I never thought "Hey, that's Michelle Obama" when I saw a black woman.

The ring: It was set up in the last episode of S5. And it was rather easy to find in the middle of that circle. You know what was hard to find? The circle. How in seven hells did they find that exact spot in the vast Dothraki Sea? 

Dorne: No explanation for that

 

The SS portion I do agree is possible, but they didn't do a very good job explaining it.  As you said, it looks like they just teleported there.

I'm still not sold on them not recognizing Dany.  Silver-haired and blue-eyed women; from what I understand; is a distinct trait that is reserved only for the Targaryens.  She comes in, speaks fluent Dothraki, and also proclaims that she is the Dany Targaryen the unburnt (amongst other names), and they all look at her as if they don't know who that is.  Last time I checked, when Danys Eggs hatched, the entire Dothraki tribe bowed to her.  I find it very hard to believe that the new Khal and leader of the Dothraki has no idea about their own prophecies coming true just a short while ago under Khal Drogo.  And yet...after all of this and not having ANY idea what she is talking about...all she says was "I was married to Khal Drogo" and suddenly..they all believe her?  I don't know, the whole scene just seemed "off" to me and struck me strange, especially considering all the new Dothraki Leaders seem to have amnesia over anything and everything involving Khal Drogo (outside of his name).  I'll have to go back and watch it again, perhaps I'm missing something.

Good point about the circle.  The whole scene seemed like a very chance-like encounter.  Finding the circle in the vast sea, and then wondering over to the center and finding a tiny ring amongst the tall grass?  Talk about lucky.

The more that happens with Dorne, the more I wish D&D introduced the (f)Aegon storyline.  Without (f)Aegon, there essentially is no Dorne story (at least, that's how it looks like it's shaping up).  But instead, they felt like they needed to force Dorne into the central story somehow, and they royally screwed it up.  They could have easily just created Arianne, tied *her* into the plot with Myrcella, and be done with it.  Instead, they send Jaime there (which drastically changes his and Cerseis plotline), introduce the Sand Snakes (who hold no value, even IN the books), and then create this weird plot arc to cover it all up.  Then they completely omit Arianne, who is the central figure to the entire Dorne plot in books!  It makes ZERO sense to me.

[TepidHands]

The board seems to have the hiccups today.  At least it's up and running! 

Oh yeah, one more "woman on top" (Thanks, Ewwww! or as we call it around my house, Weiseroff Weekly):

DANY. Nothing says empowerment like listening to two guys talk about your "white pussy hair" and fucking you in the ass. 

[LazyBazooka]

Here are some of my thoughts on the episode, which can only be summarised like this: http://i.imgur.com/UnCeM6M.jpg 

The Wall

We open with a beautiful shot of the Wall, and the camera panning down to Jon’s Snow corpse, the snow drinking his pools of blood (which is mysteriously shaped like a dragon *ahem*). But wait, the body is all alone. Why is nobody involved in the mutiny watching Jon’s corpse to make sure it doesn’t come back as a wight? Or guarding it to make sure that none of the Jon Snow loyalists try to take the body? The whole impending conflict wouldn’t happen if they just took the body with them when they all left to go get a post-coup smoothie, or wherever they went.

The anguished howls of Ghost fill the cold air, alerting Davos to the scene of the crime. Why is Ghost locked up? So this hulking and extremely dangerous direwolf is allowed to roam free through Castle Black when his master is gone, but when his master returns, he gets locked up for some reason? Another convenient way of forcing the mutiny to occur when, given the circumstances of the show (Ghost not being aggressive to people, Throne having the opportunity to not let the Wildlings through the Wall etc.), it logically shouldn’t have. 

Apparently Davos was too busy trying to draw up an algorithm to determine what happened to Shireen (hmmm, let’s see…Zealous Red Witch + Girl with King’s Blood + 20 Good Men = ????https://media.giphy.com/media/5yLgoceFO3BdJW1zvFu/giphy.gif) to hear all the commotion when Jon was being brutally murdered just outside, but the howling and some faint rattling was enough to make him investigate (I’d assume that direwolves howl and make noise all the time, and just go back to my business, but whatever). And it looks like no one else heard the mutiny either, because everyone shows up at the exact same time, how convenient. Why is Davos so devoted to and protective of Jon all of a sudden? Maybe he needs him to help him pay off his massive debt to the Iron Bank (ever return those ships by the way, Jon?). It’s nice to see some random pro-Jon red shirts that we’ve never met who will all likely be killed in the impending skirmish. 

Meanwhile, Alliser and the other mutineers call a meeting, where we’re treated to Olly reaction shots galore, drink up everyone! “I never once disobeyed an order.” You know, Thorne, there’s kind of an unspoken order to not murder your lord commander, but I guess he didn’t know that. Damn, Jon and Old Bear should’ve said “I order all of you not to betray and murder me…” beforehand and they would’ve been fine.

“He let the Willings through our gates.” Weren’t you literally the one who opened the gate after losing that intense staring contest with Jon from like a 1000ft away? You could’ve just not opened the gates if you didn’t want the Wildlings coming through so badly, instead of letting them in and then murdering Jon later on…of course, this wouldn’t have happened if Jon and the brothers who accompanied him to Hardhome just told him what happened there, then he’d understand Jon’s motivations completely and a truce would be made, but that would negate Jon’s  shocking! death and progress the story, can’t have that.

And after Thorne’s speech, everyone seems to immediately agree and nobody calls him out on his bullshit logic. Of course, for this fanfic narrative that D&D are devising to work, everyone’s brains have to be reduced to mashed potatoes. The following morning shows us Thorne approaching the room serving as Jon’s crypt, passing by a band of brothers aiming heavy crossbows intently at the door (their arms are gonna get tired after, like, a minute), and offers to let the loyalists and Davos go if they surrender by night fall. What. Is. The. Point? Just storm the room now, you idiots! If you want Jon’s body so bad (why do they want his corpse so badly?) then just kill them all now, instead of standing outside fingering your arseholes because the plot tells you to do it. The mashed potatoes are seeping out of their skulls. And what would the episode be without mentioning The Red Woman, who Davos wants around (and not so he can ask her about what happened to Shireen) to help them fight the mutineers, because “you haven’t seen her do what I’ve seen her do”, but the only thing Davos has seen her do is birth a shadow baby. So what’s the plan? Get to Melisandre, fuck her, hope she gets pregnant and gives birth to a shadow demon all before night fall? Let me know how that works out. After the foreshadowing, we’re treated to one of the most shocking reveals in D&D’s arsenal: saggy boobs. And that’s why she gets naked in the scene, think its an illustration of Mel’s growing vulnerability? Nah, D&D just wanted to gross you out. But they were so caught up in shocking the audience that they inadvertently produced yet another inconsistency, with Mel being not wearing the necklace in S4E7 and still appearing youthful - but don’t worry, show apologists are filling in the gaps by saying that scene was from Selyse’s fanatic perspective.

Winterfell

“What could I do to her that those hounds couldn’t?” Probably flay her alive, as you always had a certain affinity for flaying, and hounds don’t have the opposable thumbs necessary for such a pass time. When did Ramsay love Myranda? I thought last season it was established that he only keeps her around because she doesn’t bore him, I always got the impression that he goes through multiple girls and then hunts them when he doesn’t like them anymore. That’s kinda in line with Ramsay’s character. D&D try to make him sympathetic in a bid to make themselves look like good writers (“we’re so good, we write layered and morally complex villains - Vince Gilligan, eat your heart out, look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!”), but of course, nothing beside remains, and it ends up being a forced and laughable failure. How is anyone supposed to sympathise with this murderous, rapist hobbit/Joker-impersonator on crack? This is just ridiculous. On a side note, Myranda’s corpse is looking fine considering that she fell like 100ft and landed face first, I’m no expert in what corpses look like after falling from significant heights (and I’m not about to do research), but I’m guessing that she should be a mangled, bloody mess. Lots of people thought Ramsay was gonna go all necrophilia on her, I’m sure D&D are keeping that one in their back pocket though.

---

“Your command of the cavalry was impressive…”

“Ah yes, the magical cavalry of thousands of men and horses that randomly spawned out of nowhere and that we could somehow sustain even though we didn’t have enough food and space for them given that we were preparing for a siege until this very morning, thank you for those cheat codes, father.”

“The false king, Stannis Baratheon is dead, even though we don’t have his body, he could still be alive for all I know, and if we do have his body we really outta cut to a shot of his head on the battlements…”

“Normally I’d want to seek out Stannis and display his flayed corpse for all the North to see, but I’m just not feeling it today, father.”

“Fair enough. I’m now worried about the Lannisters invading because they have a pretty beast army, it’s kinda making me wonder why I even agreeed to this in the first place…anyway, we need the entire North to face them, even though they’re busy with the cartoony Faith right now, are thousands of miles away and we could stop them coming north by holding Moat Cailin - oh wait, I forgot you could just go around it!”

“You can? Then doesn’t that make my whole crusade to take back the castle from the Ironborn in season four pointless?”

“Yep.”

“That’s it, I’m taking more fingers from Reek when I get him back.”

“We need Sansa Stark or they won’t help us, in hindsight I’m regretting not sending wedding invitations to every major house in the North.”

“Not to worry father, I’ve got some good men and my best hounds on the job, they won’t get far.”

“But were they 20 good men?”

“No…”

“You fool! I’m totes gonna goad you into killing me and my wife for this! And why aren’t you participating in the hunt yourself? I thought you loved hunting, feels kinda out-of-character…”

“I’m just not feeling it today, father."

---

Meanwhile, Sansa is literally running slower than the castrated cripple whose had several toes removed and is limping ahead of her. They flee until their path is impeded by an icy river, and Sansa says its too cold to cross, but Theon reminds her that being cold is better than being recaptured. Um, guys, shouldn’t you take off your clothes before crossing freezing cold waters? You’ll get hypothermia! Oh well, we see them all dry and right as rain in the following scene, but then they’re immediately found by Ramsay’s Not-20-Good-Men and hounds. Not to worry though, conveniently teleporting Brienne has come to hulk out and smash them all without pity or remorse (“Tell Gwen to growl like a tiger and scream more, it’s empowering!”), along with her wacky sidekick Pod the Rod. And in classic fashion, all of the men decide to attack her one-at-a-time, how nice of them. And the hounds just disappeared for some reason. And Theon finally grows some balls again (funny how he is only redeemed when he murders somebody) as he saves Pod by stabbing that random Bolton soldier in the back…even though he had a massive shield on his back so there was no way he could have impaled him, and Theon doesn’t have the fingers to grip a sword properly…ah fuck, this fight was a mess. 

 

King’s Landing

The first shot of Cersei mirrors how I felt throughout this episode: bored and scratching my head. She’s told Myrcella has returned and trots down to the harbour like an excited puppy…wait, since when was the harbour Myrcella left from at the Red Keep? And who told Robert Strong to wait there? But then her face slowly cascades into despair as she realises her daughter floats across the water in a golden casket. And gold will be their shrouds. My main problem with this scene is that D&D have gone way too far in trying to make Cersei sympathetic, whitewashing her to the point where she no longer resembles her book character or emanates even the smallest glimmer of villainy - her narcissism is relinquished, and she now thinks of herself as mean, jealous, and a monster (she and Jaime can be monsters together - it really is true love!). She doesn’t seem angry with Jaime at all, he’s been around for two of her children’s deaths now and he failed to protect them. She doesn’t swear revenge on Dorne either, whatever happened to “I’ll burn their cities to the ground if they hurt her”? She’s still believing in a childhood prophecy though, but she probably should’ve stopped believing in it when she had four children instead of three. 

In other news, Jaime doesn’t care that a monstrous corpse is part of the Kingsguard, apparently. And Bronn waits patiently off-screen to be rewarded for his wacky adventure with Jaime on Sex Island (who wants to bet D&D will forget about this?) while dealing with his Vietnam flashbacks of hearing “bad pussy” whispered in his ear. 

Meanwhile, we learn that Septa Spoonella has more words in her vocabulary than just “confess” and “shame”. Not much to say about this scene except Margery’s punishment for perjury is ridiculous - but is she even being punished for that in the show? Grandpa Sparrow doesn’t mention her committing that, he’s just being awfully vague and talks about her being impure, almost like he’s forgotten why she’s there and is too embarrassed to ask her directly. Where will you be when the alzheimer’s hits? The next time we see Margaery she’ll be probably be brainwashed, and it’ll be so ridiculously cartoony.

Dorne

Ground Zero. No-Man’s Land. Mordor. The realm of fuckery that even the most devout show apologists have trouble defending. Doran waddles around lamenting about how boring and unfulfilling his life has been because he hasn’t been fucking beautiful women (“And men!”) like Oberyn did (you’re not a true man unless you fight n’fuck, fuck n’fight), but Ellaria has enough of this and murders him after he learns of Myrcella’s death, and decides to finally get revenge for Oberyn by killing his beloved brother and nephew, beginning her insanely irrational vengeance against the Lannisters for killing Martells…by killing off the Martells. And everyone in Dorne is okay with kinslaying, one of the greatest taboos in Westeros, for “no man is as cursed as the kinslayer, in the eyes of gods and men.” Okay. The Dornishmen hate Doran for keeping the kingdom fed instead of waging a devastating war that would bring it to ruin? Whatever, pacifism is for pussies anyway. “Weak men will never rule Dorne again.” Is this supposed to be ‘women on top’? Hey wait, if the Dornishmen hated Doran all along, then why didn’t Ellaria just have him overthrown from the beginning instead of going through the theatrics of a failed assassination attempt on Myrcella and getting captured last season? Oh yeah, D&D don’t plan this shit in advance, they are literally just making this shit up on the spot. 

We then cut to Trystane in the Membrane, who is on the boat in King’s Landing (maybe it would be a good idea to hold him prisoner in the Red Keep?), but receives a surprise visit from the Sand Snakes, who teleported all the way from Dorne to kill him. They then tell Trystane to choose which of them he wants to be killed by, and he doesn’t want to choose because they’re family, but then they ask again and he immediately changes his mind and shrugs off the notion of kinslaying in typical Dornish fashion. He picks Nymeria, which is a smart move because a whip against a sword in close-quarters will not turn out well for her, but then he turns his back on someone who just stated her intention to kill him, and he gets a spear shoved through his mouth. Fucking dumb. And, of course, their victory becomes shrouded in cattiness. You see that big rock over there? I want you to take it and beat me over the head with it the next time we get another Dorne scene. RIP Siddig’s potential. RIP Hotah, you died like a bitch.

Meereen

Over in A Clash of Kings, I mean, Meereen, Saint Tyrion and Varys Marx are walking around trying to figure out how to resolve all of the city’s problems, but why are they walking around without an escort or guards to protect them when the indiscriminately murderous Sons of the Harpy are on the loose? They're supposed to be disguised as merchants, but what would that do for Tyrion? He's a dwarf, they saw him at the fighting pits with Dany, the Sons of the Harpy would recognise him. Not to mention there was also that subplot where dwarves were being killed throughout the world because they were fought to be Tyrion, who has a hefty bounty placed on his head by Cersei. “It’s a good thing you’re not a boy anymore…because you don’t have a cock.” So immature, but this is Emmy award-winning writing, so what do I know? Varys then demonstrates his fluency in Valryian by giving money to a poor mother, but then immediately fucks up when he says that ‘Mhysa’ means ‘mother’ in Valryian. ‘Mhysa’ is old Ghiscari for ‘mother’, this is established within the show’s own continuity, in S3E10 when Dany frees the slaves from Yunkai. It’s a nit-pick, but it shows that D&D don’t proof read or double check when writing the scripts. 

And it looks like Ramsay sent his 20 Good Men to burn Dany's fleet, because it was just suddenly destroyed out of nowhere. Why didn't Varys and Tyrion hear about or even see a massive fucking fire happening before? Where are the Second Sons? They're the ones who captured the Meereenese fleet in the first place, they should be protecting it. Where are the Unsullied? They're supposed to be keeping the peace. Why would the Sons of the Harpy destroy Dany's fleet anyway? I thought they don't want her around to rule Meereen and want her to leave? Destroying her fleet is only gonna keep her there, this makes no sense. 

"Well, she won't be sailing to Westeros anytime soon." More expert foreshadowing by D&D. I love their casual attitude to this whole situation: “Oh would you look at that? It appears we’ve lost our fleet, old boy." It's almost like they aren't worried because they read the script and know the Ironborn are coming to give them a new fleet.

Meanwhile, the Super Daario Brothers are doing detective work in the Dothraki sea. This is one of the better scenes, I honestly expected more dudebro dialogue from Daario, where he brags to Jorah about getting to fuck Dany while he doesn’t, then it would escalate into a cartoony fight where they roll down the hill while hitting each other, and then they’d stopped when they find Dany’s ring. Glad it didn’t turn out that way. But Jorah is the same as always, reduced into the hilariously friendzoned mopey knight and checking his rapidly growing greyscale real subtle like. 

Then we cut to Dany who, as expected, spends the entire episode being played by a bad actress (who might have gained weight as well…this doesn’t affect the episode’s quality, I’m just making an observation) and listening to rape threats from the Brothraki, with these barbaric frat boys philosophising about the existence of white pussy hair and their desire for anal rape, just glorious Emmy award-winning writing all around (and we haven’t even got to the dick sucking humour yet!). Dany stays conveniently silent so that she pull off the same trick from season three and reveal she speaks the language the whole time so that the audience can go “woah, so badass!”, and breaks out her titles in the traditional deadpan fashion (there’s empowering eye squinting too, that’s a new trick). The women aren’t impressed with this, demanding for her to be decapitated as they seethe with jealously of her beauty - oh joy, more cattiness. The audience had to sit through five minutes of rape threats and a homage to Monty Python before getting to the plot point of Dany being taken to Vaes Dothrak, which could’ve been achieved at the very end of last season if they concluded it the same as the books did.

Braavos

After the audience is beaten over the head with shitty dialogue, newly blinded Arya gets beaten by the catty Waif (who is still around…why? I thought they were supposed to be ‘faceless’ men? Why do they only stick to one face? And if Kindly Jaqen is still around, who died from drinking the poison last episode?) in public, and nobody seems to give a shit about it. And that’s pretty much the scene. “Hey Dabid, let’s copy Daredevil.” “Ah yisssss!"

Will it ever be explained as to how Arya became blind? Will Sansa activate her Boss Ass Bitch mode? Will Bran warg Hodor and rape Meera? Find out next time on Dragonball Z.

[Rockroi]

7 hours ago, The Boastful Knight said:

Of course there is none. They're making everything up as they go. There's backtracking and retconning all over the place. I bet it's been years they read any of the books. GRRM may have told them what he's planning and even then they have no obligation to follow that. But I think they'll try anyway in their half-assed way and fail big time, like they always do. See, I think they don't really care. So there is no endgame for any of the storylines, because, they change things on a whim. You know, everything makes sense to them creatively, because they want it to happen. Screw logic, story progression, consistency, character motivations, plot, themes etc. 

This comment should be my new tag-line.  I almost did not comment on this thread merely because BK said everything I wanted to.  Regardless ... 

Is it a sign of the times where the SPOILERS thread has ten pages .... but the "Criticism Without Repercussions" Thread has close to 30?  Oh how the overrated have fallen... 

Oh, and really quickly: Lazy Bazooka is amazing.  

What I liked:  

Breinne and the Queenmaker: Again, I always like it when disparate story lines finally, at long last, come together without any further delay.  If there is one OVERHWHELMING criticism of GRRM's writing style is that it does not tie up its ends orderly (mostly because life is not orderly).  The show does a good job of doing this.  Brienne did not lose her; she did not follow the wrong girl; she did not get captured; Pod did not break his leg and she had to keep him alive.  None of that. Brienne finally found Sansa and advanced that story-line.  

The King Slayer and His Queen: Jaime is doubling-down on being a Lannister, and that is far more interesting than anything else going on (more on the end of Dorne later).  Jaime only took ownership of his children once he started losing them.  He does not want to lose what it means to be a Lannister.  And he will burn everyone else to do that. That is great.  Meanwhile, Cersei's pain is overwhelming and in a good way.  We see that she sees herself are this horrible person and that she looked at Myrcella as evidence that she could make something pure and good.  Losing Mycella sets her off. How she reacts will be interesting.  

Lord Commander Thorne, First of His Name:  So, the guy who plays Allister Thorne is an actor by the name of Owen Teale and Teale is an acting bad-ass.  He was in a great ensemble work called Conspiracy from HBO where he played one of the most notorious Nazi's, the jurist Roland Freisler.  The man can act.  And the show has realized something - they have to use him because they fucked that story line 15 ways from Sunday (more on that later).  He gives a fantastic rationale as to why he had to kill Jon Snow (one that makes ... perfect sense... in so so so so so many ways, Jon Snow was a fucking abysmal Lord Commander).  Thorne's actions are horrifying.  Then again, so are dead people coming over the wall and wildings raping the countryside.  The show is doing a great job with Thorne and with what he is up to.    

On the Fence:

The Wall: Why are we watching this?  Why is this important?  Jon Snow is in a room?  They are angry he's dead... sure Delorous Edd is clearly angry- he was Jon's friend.  But who the fuck are the rest of these people?  Remember Pyp?  Gren?  The others?  Remember how they were formed characters?  Remember that you cared about them?  Yeah, the show killed them.  Why?  Because THAT'S THE WAY THE SHOW-RUNNERS THINK YOU ADVANCE A STORY!  You kill important characters!  And what do we have a left?  A Wall populated with 1) the bad guys (Thorne), 2) good guys from other places (Mel, Davos) and 3) TOTAL FUCKING STRANGERS!  So why would we care? 

Who are these guys who love Jon Snow and willing to die for him?  Do we know them?  No.  Why would we care about them?  Don't know. But the show HAS TO make them this way because ... there are no actual characters left at the wall WHO WOULD be with Jon Snow.   This is the result of not having a plan in the story you are telling- its so so so so so obvious now.  After the runners stopped following the written story, after they used character death as a substitute for drama, after they realized they were on the wrong road, they are left with extras acting as dramatic markers.  And its pathetic.  I don't care what happens to these people if Jon is dead (he's not dead), the struggles of these people is boring, not interesting, artificial and pedestrian.  Kill them, don't kill them IT DOES NOT MATTER!  

Except... for Davos.  I am invested in Davos. To me, Davos matters.  I like watching him struggle with the problem, trying to solve it, trying to survive.  That's good. 

But why is this a problem for him???  At its apex, Davos Seaworth is in trouble because ... he found a dead body?  WTF!?  Why is he in danger?  Just leave!  

Regardless, I think the Wall is a dying story line because the show-runners have killed it.

Arya the Blind:  I don't care.  She's not in any danger.  She will absolutely overcome this trifling struggle.  Arya is blind the way C. Thomas Howell was black in Soul Man- she is going to get out of it.  Its not compelling.  Really, just do a fucking montage.  Its better than this.  

Happy Gilmore Said it Best:  The big reveal of the episode was that, apparently, Mel .s ... well Really Old.  

I know this is supposed to be a big deal, but ... why?  So, she's old?  Does that change ANYTHING!?!?!  Is it really important that Stannis fucked an old lady?  No? Then how is that a "reveal?"  Its not.  Its just something that may be interesting if its done correctly.  I am not holding my breath.  

 

What I Did Not Like (because it was terrible):

The Avatar's Plot Armor: So, Sansa is struggling across the snow and the VERY FIRST THING I thought was "Where is Brienne?"  She found the river and I thought, "Is Brienne there yet, because this scene has gone on for exactly 2 minutes too long without her."  She got to the tree stump and I thought, "FUCK!  JUST HAVE THE AVATAR OF THE FANS show up, kill the men with ease and GET THIS SCENE OVER WITH!!"  And so she does.  

As soon as she road up, I knew how the scene would play out:  Somebody would say "That's a woman," and she would descend on these morons with ease, slicing threw them with no difficulty at all.  Which was EXACTLY what happened.  So, I can hear the apologists say "But the show made it hard on her!  She ... fell off her horse."  Okay... let me ask you this... was there ANY FEAR AT ALL IN ANY WAY IN YOUR MIND THAT SHE WOULD DIE IN THAT SCENE?!?!  Any at all?  If you said 'yes, I was afraid she would die,' you don't know what this show is about since the Red Wedding (satisfying the fans); if you said 'no, I knew she would live', then IT DOES NOT MATTER!  She has the thickest and most impregnable plot armor in the show- even thicker than Tyrion and Dany.  She is a great actress in a huge role that the fans ... LOVE!  So we KNOW she is going to succeed; she will win, she will overcome all.  Its as boring as anything in this show.  

The Death of Common Sense in Dorne:  So ... Dorne is dead.  I thought I would be happier.  But Dorne is the quintessential example of how the show has failed.  And failed.  And failed.  The Dorne story line, in the books, is half-baked (almost literally); its still in development, and has many more moving parts.  Doran Martell is playing a series of games that his sisters and daughters are undermining.  He has Quentin going to Essos; he has Swan in Dorne; he stops the plot with Myscella- the guy knows things and does things.  Fire. And. Blood.  

In the show, the Dorne story-line is, basically, "We are angry that The Red Viper is dead because he was killed... in a fair fight that he agreed to ahead of time ... so... hate!"  And the show did about as bad of a job with Dorne as they did with anything.  They fucked up the Sand Sisters; they did not know what to do with Tristane, with Mycella, with the plotting etc.  They did not flush out Doran, the show-runners DID NOT GIVE DORAN ANYTHING TO ACTUALLY DO!  He was there and the show did not know why.

So, they killed him.  And they killed Tristane.  And there is no real understanding why.  We are told that the people of Dorne HATED Doran.  OREALY!!!!????  Because this is the first time we have head about this.  GREAT STORY TELLING!!!! Why did this happen

Why is Stannis dead? 

Why are Pyp and Grenn dead?  

Why is Mance dead? 

Because the VERY INSTANT the show-runners were left without a book- once the books stopped but the show petered on-  they did not- in any way - know what to do.  But worse... they thought they knew what to do.  They thought they could advance the story by killing off characters, because, they surmised, the book killed characters, so we can to!  But Martin NEVER EVER EVER killed a character without a reason; without advancing the plot.   

The show does it and has a major problem: they are left with a barren story line.  Sure, its a great "GOTCHA" moment when Martell is left dying on his terrace, but ... what's left?  Is Ellaria Sand going to do anything worthwhile?  Start a war with the Lannisters?  Why?  Because a characters we NEVER met died 15 years before the show started!  Hey, here's a hint - WE DON'T FUCKING CARE!!!!  We do not care about the death of characters we never met; we care about the lives of the characters we already know.  

The show doesn't know that.  They don't know (or respect) what Martin was trying to do (2017 can't get here fast enough); they don't know why DOrne was important; they didn't know why Stannis was important; so, much like a barbarian raiding a city, they destroy and pillage what they don't understand.  

And we are left with a story populated with 1) people we don't know or care about; 2) people we know are safe from any type of harm; 3) people who die to make things seem dangerous, but really, these characters popped up just to die (ie: Tristane).  So, ist very hard to care about what is going on and the show looks more and more like its going nowhere.  

And we are stuck with it.  

Overall Grade: 4/10.  

[Dolorous Gabe]

58 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

10% of the series devoted to "previously on GoT". Nothing much happens aside from a swift metaphorical kick in the nuts to some peripheral characters and the writers chanting "we ain't in Kansas no more, you haven't got GRRM looking out for you now".

This is the trouble of effectively trying to tell the story of WW2 from the point of view of everyone involved. When Winston Churchill tried it he ditched the idea of describing what people had for breakfast every day instead opting for the grand strategic view. This is GRRM and the tv writers' downfall. You can do one or the other, and if you elect to do the former you have to restrict your vista.

Keeping with the WW2 metaphor I'm pretty sure if you did examine the deeds and intentions of all the major players they wouldn't coalesce into a coherent single thread. There would be radical departures from the overall story all over the place. Accordingly it's a waste of time people criticising the writers for "out of character aberations", that is the lot of human beings. We don't all conform to some perceived norm.

Accept the series for what it is. Glamourised medieval pap with boobs.

But that is not how stories are told. Characters in stories are either gradually revealed over time or go through some kind of a kind of discernible arc. Usually the main characters have an arc and the secondary/tertiary characters are revealed over time.

I might actually say it's not entirely true as well. Some people may have the capacity to act seemingly out of character but that tends to be in itself a facet of such peoples' character.

[Dolorous Gabe]

1 hour ago, Milady of York said:

Hello, people:

The documentary on GOT that Miodrag Zarkovic had been preparing since last year is finally completed, and will be aired soon.

You can watch the trailer here: Fair Game.

Nice trailer.

looking forward to it

[JonSnow4President]

7 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

But that is not how stories are told. Characters in stories are either gradually revealed over time or go through some kind of a kind of discernible arc. Usually the main characters have an arc and the secondary/tertiary characters are revealed over time.

I might actually say it's not entirely true as well. Some people may have the capacity to act seemingly out of character but that tends to be in itself a facet of such peoples' character.

To add, yes there are sudden changes in character.  In good storytelling, these tend to happen as a result of a sudden epiphany brought on by the character's circumstances.  So you have a big change from Jon the whiney little kid "better than all of them," when confronted by Tyrion.  The books add in another significant change where he focuses a lot more on his NW vows after killing Qhorin.  And his relationship with Ygritte is his big springboard into understanding the wildlings as people rather than that other type of people.  Jaime changes drastically when he loses his swordhand because it is the aspect that he chooses to define himself as prior to his maiming (in the show as well, which is why I am particularly pissed about his regression back to his Kingslayer-type self). 

So sudden changes or complete 180's can be a very good thing in the narrative if they are set up in a logical manner.  Game of Thrones doesn't do that very well.

[Tijgy]

37 minutes ago, LazyBazooka said:

Here are some of my thoughts on the episode, which can only be summarised like this: http://i.imgur.com/UnCeM6M.jpg 

 

(...)

 

Brilliant. LMAO Especially with the mashed potatoes

 

[darksellsword]

This episode was hilariously bad at some points, Sand snakes catching up with Trystane and Jaime's ship and boarding it, as idiotic as it was to replace Arianne with Trystane in the first place couldn't they have just had Myrcella transferring the poison to him via a kiss therefore killing him too, sandsnakes anticipate being able to talk their way out of Myrcellas death but once Doran learns that Trystane is dead they realize it is a kill or be killed situation, nope instead D&D opted for another teleportation and yet another cartoon Sand snakes scene. I have no idea how they could be that comfortable with murdering their kin, How could the Sandsnakes be that unrecognisable in kingslanding, surely they would've stuck out like a sore thumb ,it boggles my mind how illogical the writing has become. I think the main problem with the show is the writers trying to appeal too much to the feminist audience. It is pretty clear that most of the female cast seem to gush about how empowering it is to have such strong female characters in a TV show to the point were it is all D&D hear about at these cons . I have no problem with strong female characters but D&D are striping the layers away from each character to the point were it is impossible to understand what motivates them resulting in meaningless dialogue and murders that are supposed to shock the audience but fall flat to show only watchers because none of them care about a character like Doran because he didn't make sense. Tyrion and Varys walking around Meereen unguarded?? The whole of Meereen saw him sitting with Daenerys in the arena the Harpies aren't gone so why are they strolling around Meereen, which brings us to the revelation that the ships that conveniently appeared have now been burned. This may just seem like a stupid attempt to throw the audience off guard and have them worrying about whether or not Dany will go to Westeros but to me it is a clue to a much greater problem.

Spoiler

I think D&D were planning on leaving out the Ironborn in Meereen storyline but after consulting with George learned that it was essential some how in the rest of the story so what we have are three writers rushing ahead with very poor foresight unable to plan more than a season ahead and writing very stupid changes

The dothraki have never heard of Daenerys , her dragons or the fact that she married the most powerful khal, very dumb. I don't mean to be crass but realistically she would've been raped dozens of times before she even reached that Khal had she not established that she is a widowed khaleesi, this show has truely gone down the crapper.

[Zara Zokan]

Just realised that Myranda has been more mourned by the narrative than Stannis and Shireen were, and probably Doran will be.

D&D really do love their original characters. Maybe Olly will be 999th Lord Commander if Alliser decides to hold an election (he seems to have just declared himself in charge of the Night's Watch by virtue of assassinating the last Lord Commander... yep... a true loyalist to the Night's Watch, who killed his Lord Commander and overturned the 8000 year old system of democracy).

Btw, for the people who claim that the Martells are extinct, we didn't see Manfrey die. But seriously, to whoever said that Tyene will be legitimised and will reunite with Bronn and marry him (and then Bronn will rule Dorne because jure uxoris is TOTALLY a thing in Dorne, like Doran's father ruled, and not his mother)... this wouldn't even surprise me now.

[Cas Stark]

Its beyond obvious that Dan and Dave do not deal except in the most superficial way with multi season issues.

I agree.  They gave her a navy with a throw away line.  But, now, for some reason, they need some Greyjoy to go to Meereen, I fear how awful that is going to be, so they burned the fleet.  But it was a totes surprise...another Ramsay rambo type job where apparently the whole thing went up in immediate simultaneous flames.

I'm wondering if Varys will be killed since they showed people watching the two dopes wandering around without guards.  Tyrion knows better than this, or he did once.

Dan and Dave are the double down type of guys.  This is why we saw the bad pussy snipet again and probably Bronn will get killed by the snakes, why we have now two lines of graffitti in Meereen written in the common tongue, which no one speaks in Meereen, but they threw in 'mysha'.  It's why they killed Doran and not the snakes.  

The North story is just all shot to shit.  No one's motivations make any sense.  Now Roose is worried about the Lannisters? When he didn't give a shit last season and was worried about Stannis.  He forgot he believed they could outlast anyone that sieged WF.  Everyone forgot that Cersei already said in season 1 nobody could hold the North except Northerners so his fear now of a Lannister invasion is kinda strange, and around and around it goes.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

11 hours ago, MarieAntoinette said:

Dorne was just plain awful. I think that the Dorne Storyline is not good in the books either, but this was one abysmal failure. The sand snakes are the worst characters on the show, I despised the scene in which they kill Trystane. I hated the "Greedy bitch" line. Was this supposed to be funny?

I'm thinking the D's are a bit crazy with that follow up line of 'greedy bitch' with the Slaughtering Snakes.  It's as if the Dude Bros seem to think we might still give one fuck about what these women think and feel after they single-handedly murdered Oberyn's male family members.  No one gives a shit, DumbD's........just make these Horrible Hoes go away NOW!!  I hope they disappear as fully as Gendry has, ya know?  

[Winter's Knight]

Hey guys remember last season when people were upset about Sansa's rape and one excuse offered was that once she was married there was no way to avoid it without changing the fundamental rules of their society? 

Apparently D&D have no issues changing the fundamental rules of fictional societies when it suits them re: Dany and the Dothraki.

 

(And I'm not arguing Dany should have been rape, I'm arguing there was no reason for Sansa to be, even you wanted her to marry Ramsey. 

 

[Cas Stark]

Coster-Waldau notes that things have definitely been strained between Jaime and Cersei for quite a while. “She hasn’t been happy with him for a long time,” says the actor. “I think, actually, since he came back with no right hand, she kind of lost a bit of interest in him. And I think now she needs him. And I think he is, for now, happy to step up. But she’s not an easy lady to deal with.” (You don’t say!)

So what does that mean for what happens next? We asked Coster-Waldau what we can expect for Jaime coming up. “His father’s gone, Tyrion’s gone, he’s all Cersei has now,” says Coster-Waldau. “He has to deal with protecting their last kid, Tommen, who’s also the king — who is also a teenager in love, which is also not easy to deal with. It’s hard to control him. So he has to deal with that. And first the biggest enemy here, of course, is the Faith Militant, this religious uprising, being spearheaded by the High Sparrow. He has to deal with him. That’s what he’s gonna do.”

[Cas Stark]

But there are really easy fixes for this stuff where you don't introduce these logic fails.

All they had to do was have the Khal himself be among those who find her.  They can do the whole scene there in almost the same way.  The men can talk about her pink skin and white pussy, LOL, and she can spout off...but it will all make sense and be consistent with what we know of the Dothraki...instead of having inexplicably, they find a beautiful woman alone, take her for a slave but nobody rapes her, and the entire horde is apparently riding around w/out the Khal to begin with....

But they wanted to have Dany seem to be in danger, and we see her walking and getting whipped.  

This is my beef with the show.  The failures they make are from total sloppy work, 80% of the continuity errors, plot holes etc. could be fixed with less than 30 seconds of dialogue being shifted around or minor changes to the segments.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

But there are really easy fixes for this stuff where you don't introduce these logic fails.

All they had to do was have the Khal himself be among those who find her.  They can do the whole scene there in almost the same way.  The men can talk about her pink skin and white pussy, LOL, and she can spout off...but it will all make sense and be consistent with what we know of the Dothraki...instead of having inexplicably, they find a beautiful woman alone, take her for a slave but nobody rapes her, and the entire horde is apparently riding around w/out the Khal to begin with....

But they wanted to have Dany seem to be in danger, and we see her walking and getting whipped.  

This is my beef with the show.  The failures they make are from total sloppy work, 80% of the continuity errors, plot holes etc. could be fixed with less than 30 seconds of dialogue being shifted around or minor changes to the segments.

It seems the sloppy, lack of continuity that mounted over the years (along with our complaints about such) have morphed into a full fledged......."Fuck it" from the D's.  They just want to finish, it seems, and get to whatever one or two 'end points' seem to matter to them, and the rest is big rush to the finish line, along with a giant Middle Finger to fans like us.  I do see where they could have added some sense to even a lot of the mess last night, but the lack of such in just this first episode ALMOST makes similar problems from the past couple of seasons look small.  That's why I interpret it as a giant Middle Finger in the middle of their rush to the end.  

[Sir Loin Steak]

14 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

He has to deal with protecting their last kid, Tommen, who’s also the king — who is also a teenager in love, which is also not easy to deal with. It’s hard to control him.

Classic Larry! Struggling to control the most easily manipulated character in the entire series.

Poor Tommen is living on borrowed time now that the Royal Kryptonite has returned. 

[Dolorous Gabe]

20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

But there are really easy fixes for this stuff where you don't introduce these logic fails.

All they had to do was have the Khal himself be among those who find her.  They can do the whole scene there in almost the same way.  The men can talk about her pink skin and white pussy, LOL, and she can spout off...but it will all make sense and be consistent with what we know of the Dothraki...instead of having inexplicably, they find a beautiful woman alone, take her for a slave but nobody rapes her, and the entire horde is apparently riding around w/out the Khal to begin with....

But they wanted to have Dany seem to be in danger, and we see her walking and getting whipped.  

This is my beef with the show.  The failures they make are from total sloppy work, 80% of the continuity errors, plot holes etc. could be fixed with less than 30 seconds of dialogue being shifted around or minor changes to the segments.

Like remembering they had a pair of dogs in a scene. That might be helpful!

Totally agree about Dany as well. The extra !drama! Was unnecessary and relied upon dubious Dothraki behaviour for it to work. Being taken to the Dosh Khaleen would've been an obstacle enough for her story. It's pretty simple: Have someone know who she is, have them forcibly take her to Vaes Dothrak and that's enough of an obstacle for her to overcome (even though she'll likely be saved again. Surely, if Drogon saves Dany in the books from the Dothraki it will link nicely with the fact that Dany saved Drogon in Daznak's Pit).