teemo

[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

719 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Exactly. The weren't southern words. Ned said them and Catelyn said them because she heard Ned say them many times:

 

Welp, I was super wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

She was bad in the Terminator and her Breakfast at Tiffany's play closed after a couple of weeks.  She's not a good actress, she is worse outside of GOT than she is in it, which does not bode well for a long and stellar career.  Her next movie is a comedy, if she is bad in that as well, I'd think she's going to be a B movie star doing rehashes of khaleesi until she's too old for it.

Why don't you say what you really feel? :) My point is simply that the show has laughably bad writing and expecting actors to deliver the lines they're giving them in a believable manner is simply ridiculous. The writing for Dany (and most of the characters) has been getting more and more simplistic and cliched with each episode. Many of them seem to be phoning it in while hoping the nightmare will end.

I don't agree that Emilia is the weakest link in the cast. But even if I did agree, she's still being given some truly terrible material to work with, which wouldn't help her get better. It makes sense that as her material gets worse, she would also get worse.

Edited by Caerl Targaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I mean, you're not wrong, but I just don't like it, at all. 

lmao fair enough. Im only really hella salty about Dorne in this ep. Nothing else offended me that much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said:

No matter how much they want to hide behind Women On TopTM:
Sansa is infantilised: Theon, severely mentally and physically tortured, crossing an icy river that she doesn't want to despite claiming moments ago that she would rather die than be in Winterhell any more. And her forgetting the oath in front of Brienne and having to be reminded by Pod, while she is a Lord's Paramount's daughter, former betrothed to the heir to the Iron Throne, and knows all her courtesies.

Arya is kind of infantilised too if you compare her chapters to Blind Beth, but I guess "nothing is nothing", so she has to do nothing.

Props for Brienne showing some emotion for the first time since season 3?

I don't know how much more sympathetic they can try to make Cersei/Carol, rather than depicting her as the paranoid, evil ruler she is, who does stuff like burning down the Tower of the Hand. But no, she loves Myrcella/Madison, and only now realises the meaning of the prophecy from the S5 premiere, not having a weird obsession with it (and the valonqar bit was never the most important part of it or anything...)

Marg's narrative is more nonsensical than sexist tbh. I'm surprised she is genuinely in prison for perjury and not adultery, since we all know what a Scheming Sexual Manipulator she is.

Dany's is mostly nonsensical too, tbh, it seems they changed the "Dothraki men can rape random non-Dothraki women at will (e.g. MMD in S1)" to "they need the Khal's permission", as a plot device to bring her to the Khal, who didn't know who she was, (the woman whose name is known from Asshai to Oldtown), but immediately knew who Drogo was. I don't think it's really scripted as sexist, though, just illogical.

And Dorne. Oh Dorne. This is the perfect microcosm of the show's faux-feminism. Women kill "weak" men for reasons. Seriously, everything there was so, so stupid, the epitome of anti-logic.

I agree, boss.ass.bitch. sansa is totally infantilized, I can't imagine who thought it was a good idea to make her more afraid of wading through cold water than getting caught by Ramsay. And forgetting the oath of fealty, um, yeah, okay, whatever. brutal.

I was really sad to see some reviewers buying the 'woman on top' girrl power Dorne fiasco as some kind of insane feminism where killing your own family is a good thing.  That was so ass backwards as to make 'bad pussy' 'slap game' look logical.

Although it was crass, I didn't mind the Dothraki discussion of Dany too much, and while it may be a nitpick it's hard to believe any khalisar is not going to see the super blonde chick and think 'hmm, khal drogo'

The show doesn't "get" things.  Having a blind girl being beaten up in broad daylight in public...ehrm, might attract attention, it was done inside the House of BW in the book, but since you can't see shit in the show's version, maybe that's why.  It was a pointless scene, we already know even if we never read the books, that Arya will improve and eventually get the better of her catty colleague the waif.

Marg being in prison, as the queen, for lying is just fucking stupid.  It has been stupid since they did it.  All she has to confess to is I lied for my brother, who gives a shit, what kind of punishment can there be for that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ser Greenseer said:

Okay so how do you guys want Dorne to be destroyed? Glassing the entire country with Dragons maybe? Personally I'm up for Hammers of the Waters to smash them into oblivion. 

Nuke. From. Orbit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ser Greenseer said:

Okay so how do you guys want Dorne to be destroyed? Glassing the entire country with Dragons maybe? Personally I'm up for Hammers of the Waters to smash them into oblivion. 

Nuke. From. Orbit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I agree, boss.ass.bitch. sansa is totally infantilized, I can't imagine who thought it was a good idea to make her more afraid of wading through cold water than getting caught by Ramsay. And forgetting the oath of fealty, um, yeah, okay, whatever. brutal.

I was really sad to see some reviewers buying the 'woman on top' girrl power Dorne fiasco as some kind of insane feminism where killing your own family is a good thing.  That was so ass backwards as to make 'bad pussy' 'slap game' look logical.

Although it was crass, I didn't mind the Dothraki discussion of Dany too much, and while it may be a nitpick it's hard to believe any khalisar is not going to see the super blonde chick and think 'hmm, khal drogo'

The show doesn't "get" things.  Having a blind girl being beaten up in broad daylight in public...ehrm, might attract attention, it was done inside the House of BW in the book, but since you can't see shit in the show's version, maybe that's why.  It was a pointless scene, we already know even if we never read the books, that Arya will improve and eventually get the better of her catty colleague the waif.

Marg being in prison, as the queen, for lying is just fucking stupid.  It has been stupid since they did it.  All she has to confess to is I lied for my brother, who gives a shit, what kind of punishment can there be for that?

Also, can't believe I forgot Mel being revealed to be a female Maester Aemon! (I mean, she is his first-cousin-once-removed if Brynden + Shiera = Mel). But yeah, the "shocking" reveal of her being old, and we really needed her to be nude to make the point that, woah, the show's biggest sex symbol is actually an old unconventionally attractive woman!

Like, is Ellaria Princess of Dorne now? Everyone recognises the bastard daughter of Lord Uller as their rightful ruler, and has no problems with assassinating the royal family? And the most logical way to avenge the death of 2 Martells seems to be to kill off 2 more Martells. Okay.

Tbh, Dany would be in a sticky situation, but I mean that when she goes to the Khal, they laugh at Dany when she says who she is, and then immediately recognise Drogo. It seems a bit unlikely they would know who Drogo is but not Dany, or sneer at her when she claims that she is a 'khaleesi', but immediately believe her when she says she's a Khal's widow.

And it wasn't really her being "beaten up" in the books. Also, are they just training her to be... a really good fighter? It's not like she actively learned stuff and tried to improve the use of all her senses.

Lying in court is worse than adultering when the king was alive, it seems. But the Faith Militant now just really seems to really hate gay people in the show, so I guess being a straight ally is worse than having adulterous heterosexual sex.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Ser Greenseer said:

Okay so how do you guys want Dorne to be destroyed? Glassing the entire country with Dragons maybe? Personally I'm up for Hammers of the Waters to smash them into oblivion. 

Arianne, the Princess that was Promised and Azor Ahai reborn, shows up to take her birthright back from Ellaria. She then restores all characters to their canon personalities and storylines, and we have an A Song of Ice and Fire adaptation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About those Dothraki and Dany. I honestly dont think they care about her titles, more than not know of them. To them, the Dragon Queen in Slaver's Bay is a faceless entity that was full of rumors and speculation. Its likely there were some rumors of Drogo's widow being the same person, but how many believed that to be true? They kinda drive that home when she tells them her titles. They tell her "shes basically the queen of nothing" right now because...well...she doesnt have anything at the moment. Her telling them about Drogo and Drogo's death is something they can understand and relates to their culture directly. Queen of a city they'd rather sack, means diddly squat if she doesnt have the men to prove it. Moro's entire demeanor changes from scoffing, to a measure of respect because that is something that relates to his people directly. His surprise when she spoke Dothraki too. 

in short, those guys wouldnt know her from Adam just off hand, or they wouldnt believe its the same Queen of rumors, just off hand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

About those Dothraki and Dany. I honestly dont think they care about her titles, more than not know of them. To them, the Dragon Queen in Slaver's Bay is a faceless entity that was full of rumors and speculation. Its likely there were some rumors of Drogo's widow being the same person, but how many believed that to be true? They kinda drive that home when she tells them her titles. They tell her "shes basically the queen of nothing" right now because...well...she doesnt have anything at the moment. Her telling them about Drogo and Drogo's death is something they can understand and relates to their culture directly. Queen of a city they'd rather sack, means diddly squat if she doesnt have the men to prove it. Moro's entire demeanor changes from scoffing, to a measure of respect because that is something that relates to his people directly. His surprise when she spoke Dothraki too. 

in short, those guys wouldnt know her from Adam just off hand, or they wouldnt believe its the same Queen of rumors, just off hand. 

That's true to an extent. I just think that if they laughed at her when she claimed she was a 'khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea' and spoke Dothraki, then why would they believe her after she said that she was Drogo's widow? I guess it's more of a nitpick though.

The more glaring issue is the "needing Khal's permission to rape women" retcon and that Dany was entirely taken by surprise when they said she would be taken to the Dosh Khaleen. I mean, it has been a long time since season 1, so maybe they thought people would forget some key facts...

And Deadpan seems as deadpan despite having no dragons or supporters as she did in Meereen. Also the reveal of her speaking Dothraki seems awfully similar to her in Astapor at the beginning of S3... (like Arya in King's Landing Braavos at the beginning of season 5)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, i feel it a mistake that the Khal that found her wasnt a Khal she knew. The cliffhanger in the books was more interesting because it was Jhaqo. Someone she knew and knew her. That gave a level of suspense. This Moro chap, isnt someone she knows or knows her. As for her shock of the Dosh Khaleen, i honestly think she didnt really think of that, but its hard to tell with Clarke's spotty performance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

Honestly, i feel it a mistake that the Khal that found her wasnt a Khal she knew. The cliffhanger in the books was more interesting because it was Jhaqo. Someone she knew and knew her. That gave a level of suspense. This Moro chap, isnt someone she knows or knows her. As for her shock of the Dosh Khaleen, i honestly think she didnt really think of that, but its hard to tell with Clarke's spotty performance.

Yeah, the same reason that Arya was "Lanna of the Canals" in season 5, though her trying to change her identity whilst adopting her mother's name was kind of significant. I was genuinely surprised that Unella was called Unella, because at this point, the show is more likely to change something from the books than adapt it.

Really, though, the logic is at least better than Dorne... I seriously don't know how writing can be this bad...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Bolton fight scene hurt my insides. Brienne is once again the queen of convenience; she's right where she needs to be at exactly the right time. She's basically a Westerosi GPS. Ramsay's 'best' men must've been trained in the art of combat by one of the kennel master's dogs. They 1v1 instead of ganging up on their foes, have shields but don't use them, and in the heat of battle - once knocking down their opponent - slowly walk towards them with their back wide open (all while their comrades are being butchered). And where were the Bolton's bloodthirsty hounds during the whole fight? My theory is that Brienne used her mystical powers to send them into the Void.

 

Maybe I've just been spoiled by Vikings' fight scenes, but it was just hard to take the whole thing seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zara Zokan said:

Also, can't believe I forgot Mel being revealed to be a female Maester Aemon! (I mean, she is his first-cousin-once-removed if Brynden + Shiera = Mel). But yeah, the "shocking" reveal of her being old, and we really needed her to be nude to make the point that, woah, the show's biggest sex symbol is actually an old unconventionally attractive woman!

Like, is Ellaria Princess of Dorne now? Everyone recognises the bastard daughter of Lord Uller as their rightful ruler, and has no problems with assassinating the royal family? And the most logical way to avenge the death of 2 Martells seems to be to kill off 2 more Martells. Okay.

Tbh, Dany would be in a sticky situation, but I mean that when she goes to the Khal, they laugh at Dany when she says who she is, and then immediately recognise Drogo. It seems a bit unlikely they would know who Drogo is but not Dany, or sneer at her when she claims that she is a 'khaleesi', but immediately believe her when she says she's a Khal's widow.

And it wasn't really her being "beaten up" in the books. Also, are they just training her to be... a really good fighter? It's not like she actively learned stuff and tried to improve the use of all her senses.

Lying in court is worse than adultering when the king was alive, it seems. But the Faith Militant now just really seems to really hate gay people in the show, so I guess being a straight ally is worse than having adulterous heterosexual sex.

That may be it.  I have a bad feeling Loras is going to get a really ugly, torture porn  Faith Militant Hates Gays" death.

I'm not even moved by the gratuitous nudity, and then EWWW OMG Nude Old Woman EWWW.  It's gratuitous, that's how they roll at GOT.

Thats the problem with the show...when you watch it and don't reflect, most of it works okay, but god forbid you ever stop to wonder...yes, she says she's a khaleesi and speaks Dothraki, nobody gives a shit, but name drops Khal Drogo and all of a sudden they believe it...is sorta silly. Like why didn't the Dothraki rape her to begin with if they thought she was a hot blonde nobody? we saw in season 1 that they rape whomever they capture...so again, logic fail if you think about it.  This stuff would be less jarring if they got the larger issues right.

LOL.  Seriously.  We killed the rest of the actual Martells, whose name is Martell to avenge the Martells.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While there were certainly things I liked about this episode - all northern-related - my dissatisfaction can be summed up in a single word. 

Dorne. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

That may be it.  I have a bad feeling Loras is going to get a really ugly, torture porn  Faith Militant Hates Gays" death.

I'm not even moved by the gratuitous nudity, and then EWWW OMG Nude Old Woman EWWW.  It's gratuitous, that's how they roll at GOT.

Thats the problem with the show...when you watch it and don't reflect, most of it works okay, but god forbid you ever stop to wonder...yes, she says she's a khaleesi and speaks Dothraki, nobody gives a shit, but name drops Khal Drogo and all of a sudden they believe it...is sorta silly. Like why didn't the Dothraki rape her to begin with if they thought she was a hot blonde nobody? we saw in season 1 that they rape whomever they capture...so again, logic fail if you think about it.  This stuff would be less jarring if they got the larger issues right.

LOL.  Seriously.  We killed the rest of the actual Martells, whose name is Martell to avenge the Martells.  

Yeah, and then people will praise D&D for "bravely criticising homophobia" whilst they reduce Loras to his homosexuality, kind of made Oberyn's bisexuality into a joke in this very episode (the latest reference to Renly was about his sexuality too), and Ellaria is a cartoonish villain. Rather than establishing well-written LGBT characters like the books do. And oh, lord of light, lesbian/bi Asha/Yara is apparently going to be a thing this season (she's apparently merged with Victarion and the dusky woman is her gf). And it's not like the Sparrow movement formed because of the poverty in the Riverlands because of the War of Five Kings or anything, rather than hatred for gay people...

Also they retconned the Dothraki Rape Law so you need the Khal's permission, because Dany as an Empowered Woman On TopTM can't be raped by random nobodies and she needs a plot device to get to the Khal and reveal that she is Dany Stormborn, Queen of Westeros, etc. etc. etc.

And the House Nymeros Martell has ruled Dorne for a thousand years, and essentially founded the Dorne that exists today. To think that everyone is okay with killing them all off.... maybe Manfrey Martell is still alive, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Hrokkan of Skagos said:

I feel like that plotline is one colossal failure at trying to appeal to women.

"Look everyone, these are women... WHO FIGHT, and USE SWORDS.... LIKE MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!1!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!.... THEY KILL MEN....  THEY ARE STRONG WOMEN EVERYONE LOOK HOW FUCKING COOL THEY ARE HOLY FUCKING SHIT THEY USE WEAPONS LIKE ALL THE MEN USUALLY DO THEY ARE SO FUCKING BADASS AND SNARKY FUCK YEAH"

I mean... reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally though?

I agree 100% they Tarth the best fighter in all of Westros which is just not accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, The Onion Kniggit said:

SO GUYZ!!!

Did we just witness House Martell go extinct within a single episode?

Indeed we did, with the bonus point that it was done by kinslayers, triple win that to avenge the death of one niece and nephew, they killed the other one.

Show Ellairia is now seriously much crazier than Cersei.  She has gone bat shit crazy, but I'm pretty sure the show isn't going to use this as a lesson in the perils of revenge, but as WOOHOO, Women Warriors Taking Power!  Go Girlz. Badass.

I would almost have wished they simply said Dorne was destroyed by a vast earthquake and dropped the whole story than that they kill off Siddig, turn Ellaria into a total complete killling freak and keep Charlies Angels Dorne Style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now