Discussing Sansa XX: Run, Sansa, run...

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Taylor Swift said:

I like the Sansa - Brienne scene.

In episode 2, Brienne will tell Sansa about Arya, and then they may continue their travels to Castle Black and Sansa will reunite with Jon in ep 3 or ep 4.

I also am quite sure Sansa will send Theon home in ep 2 itself, with the title of the ep being Home.

So Theon is off to the iron isles, Sansa is on her way to meet Jon in ep 2.

So the Jon resurrection will be either ep 2 or ep 3, i am going to predict that it will occur in ep 2 itself.

 

 Jon and Arya? Show v books?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Ok, I'm kinda late on the discussion, but no one is debating the fact that Sansa is a victim. The point of the debate is WHY is such.

Even if you start a story with a victim, at some point, such victim must start to speak up against their oppressors, or show some progression. Otherwise, you're simply reading/watching some sort of masochistic/sadistic narrative here. 

The same with Sansa. D&d keep talking about this "empowerment" and, at least in my case, I don't see it. She's like Sisyphus: it doesn't matter how hard she tries to push the rock, she needs to start all over. Why? Because that's how they want to present her. This is how they perceive the character must be. That's what happened in Season 4, at the two finale episodes: Sansa realised LF lusted after her and she realised she could manipulate him. I'm not imagining this, it happened in text. Many readers here were even HAPPY that Sansa was FINALLY doing something. And that only served for D&d using this new found strength of her to make her take a decision on "her own" and remove any guilt from Littlefinger, who, we remember from the books, was the one sending Jeyne to one of his own brothels.

And no, the solution isn't turning the victim into Hero from one episode to another. It has to be progressive to be credible. And it's not credible if the "victim" can barely walk one episode and the next one, is all Goku about to fight Cell.

Now, in Season 5, it starts with Sansa being all fearful and insecure again: she can't cross a river, she doesn't remember her words... the excuse of  "but she's traumatized" shouldn't even be used because the point of having an "empowered" plot is that you overcome adversity. What will be the excuse in Season 7? "Sansa is just traumatised after she killed Ramsay with a sword, that's why she can't function again?".

 

 

[Ruhail]

For some reason the Sansa and Brienne scene sent me bursting into laughter.

[Clash]

2 hours ago, Ruhail said:

For some reason the Sansa and Brienne scene sent me bursting into laughter.

Go on admit it. You were actually tearing up at that scene and you laughed to cover it up.

[Mladen]

12 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

Ok, I'm kinda late on the discussion, but no one is debating the fact that Sansa is a victim. The point of the debate is WHY is such.

And that question alone brings us to whole another debate. Can woman, with all its feminine traits, truly be empowered in the world D&D created? Can a woman be strong without resorting to the power of widened legs or a sword? Essentially, do the producers see the empowerment of women solely by the male standards? And how sexually liberated they are? Not that there is anything wrong about women being sexually liberated, but widening the legs should not be the only way to achieve some power. Just as it is not ability to be badass in traditional masculine way.

All the flaws of their writing and understanding of female characters are completely embodied in Sansa. Telling the story of empowerment through battle, swordsmanship and kickassery is literally an old news. Yes, we have seen countless warrior-women, warrior-princesses etc. Yes, Brienne is strong, Arya is strong, Daenerys is strong, but the idea that, in this case women, can be strong in different ways simply eludes them.

That is why they have resorted to manipulative seductress Sansa was at the end of Season 4. The entire thing contradicts her rejecting Cersei's idea of power and even Margery's advice regarding men. And when they couldn't continue with that, they didn't reinvent her newly-attained empowerment, they basically retrograded her to her book 1-version. And that is the thing. Sansa would have been able to see right through Ramsay because she has been with Joffrey. Ramsay's sweet talk in Season 5 can't have the same effect as Joffrey's in Season 1. If you want her to be in WF and wedded to Ramsay, make sure we know she knows what that entails. The question many asked last year "what did the viewers expected?" was completely misdirected. Instead we should have been asking what this new manipulative seductress they gave us expected. And that is why entire thing fell like house of cards. Because that manipulative seductress proved to be more naive, gullible and blind than her originally naive version in season 1.

We also talked that empowerment and agency means Sansa does have a choice. And we are presented with Sansa having the say in this. But, her own choice here was not just bad choice. It was the choice void of so many complexities that were supposed to be there. She should be able to question more deeply LF's motives, she should have been able to see problematic nature of Ramsay, she should have known what the wedding means. Simply, her bad choice wasn't the consequence of Sansa having the liberty of making a choice, but the consequence of her character being so asinine that it completely undermined whatever point they were trying to make at the end of Season 4.

So, full circle now and we return to the beginning and what I have said - D&D simply don't know how to transform Sansa into what they want her to be. Turner, Martin, producers, they all seem to agree that Sansa is and can be smart player and influential piece of the puzzle. But, just like we had Catelyn being transformed into the Mother figure of the show, Sansa is damsel in distress figure. The only difference is that with Sansa we have to see this transformation, while Catelyn met her untimely demise. And so, how to make someone so feminine a bad ass? That is the root of all the confusion. That is their main problem. Inability to slide Sansa easily from princess in the tower to grown-up woman who can decide in her own name. And by doing so, to not disrupt the already established character by turning her into her own pimp or some traditionally masculine version of empowerment. 

[Clash]

11 minutes ago, Risto said:

And that question alone brings us to whole another debate. Can woman, with all its feminine traits, truly be empowered in the world D&D created? Can a woman be strong without resorting to the power of widened legs or a sword? Essentially, do the producers see the empowerment of women solely by the male standards? And how sexually liberated they are? Not that there is anything wrong about women being sexually liberated, but widening the legs should not be the only way to achieve some power. Just as it is not ability to be badass in traditional masculine way.

All the flaws of their writing and understanding of female characters are completely embodied in Sansa. Telling the story of empowerment through battle, swordsmanship and kickassery is literally an old news. Yes, we have seen countless warrior-women, warrior-princesses etc. Yes, Brienne is strong, Arya is strong, Daenerys is strong, but the idea that, in this case women, can be strong in different ways simply eludes them.

That is why they have resorted to manipulative seductress Sansa was at the end of Season 4. The entire thing contradicts her rejecting Cersei's idea of power and even Margery's advice regarding men. And when they couldn't continue with that, they didn't reinvent her newly-attained empowerment, they basically retrograded her to her book 1-version. And that is the thing. Sansa would have been able to see right through Ramsay because she has been with Joffrey. Ramsay's sweet talk in Season 5 can't have the same effect as Joffrey's in Season 1. If you want her to be in WF and wedded to Ramsay, make sure we know she knows what that entails. The question many asked last year "what did the viewers expected?" was completely misdirected. Instead we should have been asking what this new manipulative seductress they gave us expected. And that is why entire thing fell like house of cards. Because that manipulative seductress proved to be more naive, gullible and blind than her originally naive version in season 1.

We also talked that empowerment and agency means Sansa does have a choice. And we are presented with Sansa having the say in this. But, her own choice here was not just bad choice. It was the choice void of so many complexities that were supposed to be there. She should be able to question more deeply LF's motives, she should have been able to see problematic nature of Ramsay, she should have known what the wedding means. Simply, her bad choice wasn't the consequence of Sansa having the liberty of making a choice, but the consequence of her character being so asinine that it completely undermined whatever point they were trying to make at the end of Season 4.

So, full circle now and we return to the beginning and what I have said - D&D simply don't know how to transform Sansa into what they want her to be. Turner, Martin, producers, they all seem to agree that Sansa is and can be smart player and influential piece of the puzzle. But, just like we had Catelyn being transformed into the Mother figure of the show, Sansa is damsel in distress figure. The only difference is that with Sansa we have to see this transformation, while Catelyn met her untimely demise. And so, how to make someone so feminine a bad ass? That is the root of all the confusion. That is their main problem. Inability to slide Sansa easily from princess in the tower to grown-up woman who can decide in her own name. And by doing so, to not disrupt the already established character by turning her into her own pimp or some traditionally masculine version of empowerment. 

Well reasoned sir. The one thing you left out is that show Sansa is the marriage of two differnt characters who don't really fit together.

[Grail King]

On 4/25/2016 at 9:55 PM, The Northern Scholar said:

On 4/25/2016 at 10:04 PM, Risto said:

Exactly... And to have Pod remind her, of all the people... God, almighty...

The editing and writing was abysmal. For a split of a second I caught myself thinking "She will warg the dog" and then I realized what I was watching.

 

On 4/25/2016 at 9:55 PM, The Northern Scholar said:

I mean, it's hard to reconcile the courtesy armor that protected her in King's Landing with the woman who forgot the vow on the show.

I mean, it's hard to reconcile the courtesy armor that protected her in King's Landing with the woman who forgot the vow on the show.

I'm quite late to this thread (busy on others and work) what are you talking about both of you!

Sansa Started the oath ON HER OWN!, she forgot the next few words, where Pod helped and she concluded the last ten or so words ON HER OWN! some where between being almost killed, jumping from the walls, running from dogs, wading through a running icy river getting a brief 30 second resat bit where you can see her mind racing and trying to comprehend what has transpired, then face to face again before Brieenne rescues them and your faulting her for forgetting a few words of an oath she didn't expect to say.

Lets see how you both do if some horrific thing happens to you and you need to recite some oath you never had to say prior.

[Mladen]

11 minutes ago, Grail King said:

I'm quite late to this thread (busy on others and work) what are you talking about both of you!

Sansa Started the oath ON HER OWN!, she forgot the next few words, where Pod helped and she concluded the last ten or so words ON HER OWN! some where between being almost killed, jumping from the walls, running from dogs, wading through a running icy river getting a brief 30 second resat bit where you can see her mind racing and trying to comprehend what has transpired, then face to face again before Brieenne rescues them and your faulting her for forgetting a few words of an oath she didn't expect to say.

Lets see how you both do if some horrific thing happens to you and you need to recite some oath you never had to say prior.

The problem with Sansa is never in ONE scene, it is in the pattern of behavior that writers consistently force on her. She is frightened, scared, needs a proper push to run, she is unable to run on her own, she needs someone to help her with the words... It is not about the logic of her forgetting the lines, it is probably expected, but if Pod can remember the lines he has never said prior and he probably never will after the excitement of battle, I see no reason why Sansa wouldn't be able. 

59 minutes ago, Clash said:

Well reasoned sir. The one thing you left out is that show Sansa is the marriage of two differnt characters who don't really fit together.

Well, Jeyne is not fully fleshed character, so from that perspective, merging her with Sansa is not that unsuitable. But, here is the problem. Sansa, as POV, is the hero of her own story. Jeyne, as horrifying as her ordeals were, she is part of someone else's story. And that was the problem in the TV show. That producers didn't know whether to put Sansa in the spotlight or to make her a facilitator of Theon's recovery. They tried to do both and they failed.

[Clash]

7 minutes ago, Risto said:

Well, Jeyne is not fully fleshed character, so from that perspective, merging her with Sansa is not that unsuitable. But, here is the problem. Sansa, as POV, is the hero of her own story. Jeyne, as horrifying as her ordeals were, she is part of someone else's story. And that was the problem in the TV show. That producers didn't know whether to put Sansa in the spotlight or to make her a facilitator of Theon's recovery. They tried to do both and they failed.

It's easy to understand Jeyne thinking marrying Ramsay and being the lady of Winterfell is a good (if odd in the circumstances) idea. Not so much Sansa who has to be bent into shape to fit the part. That bits over now and Sansa can go back to being Sansa instead of a frightened girl who let the bright lights dazzle her long enough to bite the metaphorical bullet. It was bound to fail but I'm sure if we were to go back to the discussion at the time, people would have pointed that out.

[Xcorpyo001]

33 minutes ago, Grail King said:

I'm quite late to this thread (busy on others and work) what are you talking about both of you!

Sansa Started the oath ON HER OWN!, she forgot the next few words, where Pod helped and she concluded the last ten or so words ON HER OWN! some where between being almost killed, jumping from the walls, running from dogs, wading through a running icy river getting a brief 30 second resat bit where you can see her mind racing and trying to comprehend what has transpired, then face to face again before Brieenne rescues them and your faulting her for forgetting a few words of an oath she didn't expect to say.

Lets see how you both do if some horrific thing happens to you and you need to recite some oath you never had to say prior.

 

Ohhh, the poor thing was scared and cold and couldn’t think straight. Thing is, from all the people in that clearing, lady Bolton was the only person that shouldn’t be afraid of anything, because those soldiers couldn’t do anything to hurt her.

 

Pod on the other hand had to fight for his life, kill a guy, and stare death in the face when he was almost killed before being saved by Theon 2.0. But with all these shocks to his system, he still managed to remember an oath he wasn’t ready to say, and shouldn’t even know in the first place, because he will never be in a position to say it.

 

This one scene could have been the turning point in Sansa Bolton’s characterization. All she had to do was accept her offer without outside interference and say two easy lines.

Heck, since she was a little disheveled, I would have understood a small hesitation. Then she should have recovered herself and finish the damn thing without help from Pod.

But it’s season 6, and she still needs Theon’s approval to accept Brienne’s help, and help from Pod to say her courtesies.

 

Please, tell me one scene from the book or show when Sansa makes a decision for herself, without being coached, led to it or tricked into doing it.  Well, except that time when she betrayed Ned’s plans to Cersei.

[Grail King]

On 4/25/2016 at 8:46 AM, Numantia said:

Appart for the dogs-dissaperance thing, i really liked the rest. Theon was like a brother for ther  now he has gained a little bit of redemption. He went to the hands of the Boltons without blinking just to try to save her, even knowing that it would meant a horrible death for him, and it was wise for her to recognize that. He was her brother and she needs that again. Making her forget her lines, make her human also. After all the jumping, running, almost captured again, rescued in the last minute in "a couple of hours?" even the pope would have forgetten his lines. Pod's situation wasn't the same, he has just helped (as better as he can) to rescue Theon and Sansa, hi is sort of an hero, he was an expert in sigils, probably he is an expert in all lord-related things. For me it was natural that she forgot the lines, but still he remembered.

Agin I'm real late to the thread, and it may be posted already, someone either here or reddit went over the scene and counted 4 on horses 2 handlers and the dogs;after the battle there are 5 dead Boltons,where is #6? As the person who looked into it I agree to think Bolton #6 ran back to Wf dogs too, what would give Ramsey a reason to mention Sansa is going to CB and decide to send men there? the reason; one person got back to tell him she escaped with help from others and Ramsey is the only one that he knows of that told her that.

Oh I would not think Bolton #6 living to long after he tells Ramsey.

[Grail King]

17 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

 

Ohhh, the poor thing was scared and cold and couldn’t think straight. Thing is, from all the people in that clearing, lady Bolton was the only person that shouldn’t be afraid of anything, because those soldiers couldn’t do anything to hurt her.

 

 

 

Pod on the other hand had to fight for his life, kill a guy, and stare death in the face when he was almost killed before being saved by Theon 2.0. But with all these shocks to his system, he still managed to remember an oath he wasn’t ready to say, and shouldn’t even know in the first place, because he will never be in a position to say it.

 

 

 

This one scene could have been the turning point in Sansa Bolton’s characterization. All she had to do was accept her offer without outside interference and say two easy lines.

 

Heck, since she was a little disheveled, I would have understood a small hesitation. Then she should have recovered herself and finish the damn thing without help from Pod.

 

But it’s season 6, and she still needs Theon’s approval to accept Brienne’s help, and help from Pod to say her courtesies.

 

 

 

Please, tell me one scene from the book or show when Sansa makes a decision for herself, without being coached, led to it or tricked into doing it.  Well, except that time when she betrayed Ned’s plans to Cersei.

 

Two different mediums, if people hate the show stay in the rant group.

And because she has a title to her name she should not fear an ass hole who skinned alive an old woman, had other people killed because they bored him or got pregnant or didn't pay taxes, or totally torchered a person Sansa personally knew she should not fear this person, really.

Pod suffered nothing like Sansa or Theon, in the show Pod states that Tyrion made sure to know house sigials, who married who and who dislikes who, teaching that oath would be part of being a knight which not only Tyrion is helping him with, but so is Brienne.

She's not getting his approval more like is this person trusting, she still doesn't know if she takes someone on if they wont betray her and in show she's 14 15 tops she's a kid.

Let's see,: Threathen to push Joff off the the castle, going to the Godswood ( with a knife) not knowing if it's a trap or not, pleading for her father's life in court, knowing or figuring out Cobray is working for LF and also may be double crossing LF, made a wise decision at the time not to go with the Hound, would you go with a drunk who put a knife to your throat?

Lying for LF in both show and books, outing herself out to Lord Royce, knowing Brienne was in danger at the inn and refusing her at that time and lets face it, if someone told you a ghost killed someone you think twice also.

Rightly or wrongly telling the Boltons, and Myranda off in WF, even about belittling  Theon, picking up the cork screw to free herself ( she should have kept it )her decision to place the candle, understanding Stannis was screwed and making the jump etc.

And she didn't betray Ned's plans Ned did that himself in the KL Godswood to Cersei

 

[Mladen]

2 minutes ago, Grail King said:

She's not getting his approval more like is this person trusting, she still doesn't know if she takes someone on if they wont betray her and in show she's 14 15 tops she's a kid.

She was 14 three seasons ago, and it seems that official GoT wiki believes that one season counts for one year.

4 minutes ago, Grail King said:

Pod suffered nothing like Sansa or Theon, in the show Pod states that Tyrion made sure to know house sigials, who married who and who dislikes who, teaching that oath would be part of being a knight which not only Tyrion is helping him with, but so is Brienne.

And Sansa had the best education possible, so the point is mute. Simply, it seems that excuses works for some characters and not for others. Excitement, trauma, age, whatever reason one may think of, is always there when we need to make excuse for Sansa (in this case), but God forbid if we have the same standards for everyone.

But then again, Podrick "sex machine" Payne is expected to know everything when needed and be naive fool when needed. If anything, producers show remarkable consistency in the inconsistencies...

21 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

Ohhh, the poor thing was scared and cold and couldn’t think straight. Thing is, from all the people in that clearing, lady Bolton was the only person that shouldn’t be afraid of anything, because those soldiers couldn’t do anything to hurt her.

Lady Walda? We are talking about Sansa here. Sansa Stark. All the other names are nothing else than fanfiction as GRRM, producers of TV show are rather clear about the name - Sansa Stark. Now, if we want to degrade character who was raped by making stronger connection with her rapist, that is whole another debate, but let we stick to the established names here. Thank you very much

[Xcorpyo001]

3 minutes ago, Grail King said:

Two different mediums, if people hate the show stay in the rant group.

Pod suffered nothing like Sansa or Theon, in the show Pod states that Tyrion made sure to know house sigials, who married who and who dislikes who, teaching that oath would be part of being a knight which not only Tyrion is helping him with, but so is Brienne.

She's not getting his approval more like is this person trusting, she still doesn't know if she takes someone on if they wont betray her and in show she's 14 15 tops she's a kid.

 

I don’t hate the show, I just think some scenes could have been handled better. According to D&D we have only 22 episodes left of this show, and I’m yet to see some huge advancement in Sansa’s characterization. She need to start thinking for herself, and stop waiting to be saved every time, ask permission for every decision, and not manage to do even the things she should excel at.

Pod has several months of study under Tyrion. And the only part of the oath he needs to know is the first one(used by Brienne), and the part said by the lord only for some extra credit.

Sansa on the other hand has been trained by a maester, septa, and saw her father and mother doing these things for all her life. The books states multiple times that she excels at everything a young lady should know, from singing, knitting, history, and all the courtesies. The show also emphasizes this several times.

Furthermore, Pod is almost the same age as Sansa, both in the book and show. His several months of study with Tyrion(when he cought the guy not drunk or deep in some bad fluff) is no match for more than a decade of intense study Sansa went through.

She should know that stuff in her sleep.

[Clash]

4 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

I don’t hate the show, I just think some scenes could have been handled better. According to D&D we have only 22 episodes left of this show, and I’m yet to see some huge advancement in Sansa’s characterization. She need to start thinking for herself, and stop waiting to be saved every time, ask permission for every decision, and not manage to do even the things she should excel at.

Why does she have to?

Maybe that's just who she is.

[Xcorpyo001]

42 minutes ago, Risto said:

Lady Walda? We are talking about Sansa here. Sansa Stark. All the other names are nothing else than fanfiction as GRRM, producers of TV show are rather clear about the name - Sansa Stark. Now, if we want to degrade character who was raped by making stronger connection with her rapist, that is whole another debate, but let we stick to the established names here. Thank you very much

 

I am sorry if I offended you in some way, but the only fanfiction I was quoting is the show itself

 

- There they are!

 

- Get them!

 

Where is Lady Bolton?

 

- Dead.

 

- Liar.

 

She broke her leg jumping from the ramparts.

 

I know that in the books this issue isn’t a problem, but this is the show. And in the show Sansa married a Bolton, by the customs of the old gods, and the union was also ‘finalized’, so it’s official. The fact that Sansa or us as viewers don’t like doesn’t make it less true.

 

I guess after the Boltons are dealt with, the guy in charge can annul the marriage, or she can marry again once Ramsay is dead and change her name that way, but at the moment she is recognized at Lady Bolton. Watch the scene again if you think I made up those lines. Those soldiers clearly say Lady Bolton.

 

[Grail King]

16 minutes ago, Risto said:

She was 14 three seasons ago, and it seems that official GoT wiki believes that one season counts for one year.

And Sansa had the best education possible, so the point is mute. Simply, it seems that excuses works for some characters and not for others. Excitement, trauma, age, whatever reason one may think of, is always there when we need to make excuse for Sansa (in this case), but God forbid if we have the same standards for everyone.

But then again, Podrick "sex machine" Payne is expected to know everything when needed and be naive fool when needed. If anything, producers show remarkable consistency in the inconsistencies...

Lady Walda? We are talking about Sansa here. Sansa Stark. All the other names are nothing else than fanfiction as GRRM, producers of TV show are rather clear about the name - Sansa Stark. Now, if we want to degrade character who was raped by making stronger connection with her rapist, that is whole another debate, but let we stick to the established names here. Thank you very much

Start of GOT at the feast Cersei asked her age Sansa's reply was 13 and the time of one season is one year can't fit, Gilly's baby be like 4 or 5 if that's the case, can't go by the wiki as GRRM himself didn't make the time line linear.

Can have the best education anywhere, brightest mind and still have a brain fart so Sansa's suppose to be some super girl, super everything, the reason people either like or hate Sansa is because she's a normal girl people seem to forget this.

As far as Pod keeping the childish sex stuff out, it isn't out of the norm for a squire or aid to both Tyrion and Brienne to learn and know what Sansa knows as far as house words, court etiquette and laws.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

30 minutes ago, Clash said:

Why does she have to?

Maybe that's just who she is.

If Sansa is supposed to be a doormat, then why is her purpose in the story?

It's like watching Cinderella and expecting she remains being the stepmother's servant because that's who she really is.

[Grail King]

3 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

If Sansa is supposed to be a doormat, then why is her purpose in the story?

It's like watching Cinderella and expecting she remains being the stepmother's servant because that's who she really is.

Fook! love your Avatar and words, been a while since I've been here.LOL

[Xcorpyo001]

40 minutes ago, Grail King said:

Start of GOT at the feast Cersei asked her age Sansa's reply was 13 and the time of one season is one year can't fit, Gilly's baby be like 4 or 5 if that's the case, can't go by the wiki as GRRM himself didn't make the time line linear.

Can have the best education anywhere, brightest mind and still have a brain fart so Sansa's suppose to be some super girl, super everything, the reason people either like or hate Sansa is because she's a normal girl people seem to forget this.

As far as Pod keeping the childish sex stuff out, it isn't out of the norm for a squire or aid to both Tyrion and Brienne to learn and know what Sansa knows as far as house words, court etiquette and laws.

 

I never expected her to do something beyond her capabilities. She can’t run or fight well because she never put much stock on physical training because she spend that time learning from her maester, septa, tutors and her highborn family.

So I understand the fact that she doesn’t pick a sword to kill a couple Bolton soldiers, or warg a dog or convince them to betray the Boltons and join her little party.

But something directly connected to the very thing she should excel at should be doable. She is slotted to be a unifying presence in the North, the Queen of the North or at least the face of the Stark family. In order to become that, she will have to start to act like it. And not being able to say two lines under duress doesn’t bode well for her future.

It’s like an athlete spends a decade training like crazy to win the gold during the olimpics. Everyone is certain he’ll ace it, but the day of the event he forgets to set his alarm clock and misses the competition.She is entitled to make mistakes, nobody’s perfect, but when it counts she better be able to do the things everybody knows she can do.

Will she have Pod talking for her when she’ll be dealing with the northern lords? Don’t you think they’ll test her mettle to see if she’s worth the danger they’ll be in if they chose to accept her as their liege lady?

She’s only 13 as of season 1.

Stannis Baratheon: "The Lady of Bear Island and a child of ten. I asked her to commit her House to my cause. That's her response."

Jon Snow: "[reading aloud] 'BearIsland knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark'."

That’s a normal girl of 10 as of season 5. At least normal for the North.

If Sansa wants to do anything in the North, she’ll better find a way to get rid of that brain freeze of hers. And grow a pair while she’s at it. We are running out of time after all.

It’s a good thing Brienne didn’t forget how to fight in the middle of the battle. That would have been a little awkward.