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Speculation :TV show vs. what the books will be


Howdyphillip

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I found myself quite enjoying the show tonight, even if it was with a slight pang in my heart from not being able read the story first. Of course,the richness of the story will be truncated, but all in all, I personally think that the show is doing a good job of telling a story. With that said, I wanted to start this thread to discuss ways in which we believe that the show will prove itself different from the books, and ways that will probably be similar.

Obvious differences

1.Sansa/Theon/Brienne

Obviously these characters are no where near each other in the narrative of the books, but as a TV show, I quite like linking the characters together. I was quite exited to see Brienne to ride in to the rescue tonight, and look forward to what will come next.

2. Tyrion/Varys 

There roles are quite different in the books, but I suspect that these two will have a similar story line as Barristan the Bold has in the books minus some of the details about the Harpies.

3. Martels

I have to believe that this will be a huge deviation. I just don't see Doran being killed off.

4. Daenerys

I just don't see sending her to a retirement home for widowed Khal's wives being something that could take place. It seems thatis a departure from what we know about Dothraki culture.

 

Similarities 

1. John Snow

He is indeed dead. I'm not too sure that the theory that he has warged into Ghost is out of the realm of possibilities either.

2. Melisandre

I really like the necklace of glamour being removed tonight. This seems like something that is to be expected in the books.

 

Please feel free to leave any other speculation here as well.

 

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Given how... "creative" the show is being.... I'm pretty sure that Aegon will end up marrying Sansa in the end as the fairy tale prince she always desired/was brought up to expect.  Daenarys will be slain by Barristan for betraying/opposing the One True King, whilst Varys has Tyrion shipped off to Pentos as a court jester/slave and Jaime takes his proper place as the redeemed Lord Commander of King's Guard after saving King's Landing from Cersei.

 

Heck if I were GRRM I'd make it [eventually] happen even if I didn't originally plan it this way, at this point who cares? You already got paid and the D&D deserve it for the sheer... I hesitate to even call it butchery for fear of being generous... they made of the last two couple of seasons.

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4 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

4. Daenerys

I just don't see sending her to a retirement home for widowed Khal's wives being something that could take place. It seems thatis a departure from what we know about Dothraki culture.

FYI, this is not the case. Dany went to Vaes Dothrak in A Game of Thrones and we know the crones are in fact former Khalessis. So this is book canon, and I think a huge confirmation she will be returning there in TWOW.

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Agreed - wasn't that a threat levied at Dany at one point? One of the Khals that rose after Drogo's death said he would take here there. So I've always seen her returning to the Dosh Kaleen before uniting the khalasars behind her. In the books, I am not sure how they take her without her permission as Drogon stands at her back, but who knows. To go forward, you must go back ...

And regarding the horrible mess in Dorne, in very broad strokes, we have a country ready to go to war. Aside from, you know, all the details, that's what's happening in the books too. Very, very broad strokes.

How they chose to show Melisandre wasn't a huge shock, and I think it works well for tv. We suspected she was very, very old, but I was imagining it differently. Taking into the account that Mel doesn't need to sleep or eat, and neither does Moqorro stuck in the sea for days, I imagined her as a kind of fire-wight. A parallel to the ice-wights. She doesn't feel the cold, either as she is warmed by the fire that animates her (maybe). I don't think all priests are like this since Thoros didn't seem supernatural, but maybe just high ranking ones. It fits better for me than just being flat-out old and using glamour. I'm holding out hope that the books will tell it differently than the show.

I also think they left room for Jon to have warged into Ghost, and since the show hasn't touched on that at all with Jon, I just assume it's to simplify things. And bringing back the wildlings approximates the chaos that covered Jon's book assassination. So yeah - this story is probably the most similar so far.

Sansa/Theon makes sense for the show, but I don't see them staying together for long. I can't see Jon welcoming him at the wall. He and Sansa have the shared experience of Ramsey to make them at least a working team. I don't expect any other Starks to tolerate him. I'm looking for Asha to find him soonish, or maybe he hears where she is at? Is she even in the North?

I'm looking forward to seeing Jaime's reactions to what Cersei was accused of. They've got to put him back on track at some point, right? Of everything, the thing that breaks my heart the most is how they've ruined his story. I can't imagine a break from Cersei feeling earned at this point.

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Actually I fully expect Dany to mirror that story in Winds, I am sure it's touched upon in one of the books that all widow's of Khals are sent to Vaes Dothrak.  Pretty sure that the events of castle black will go down in a fairly similar way too (with those loyal to Jon fighting the mutineers, Mel losing some faith).

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4 minutes ago, JonSnowed said:

Actually I fully expect Dany to mirror that story in Winds, I am sure it's touched upon in one of the books that all widow's of Khals are sent to Vaes Dothrak.  Pretty sure that the events of castle black will go down in a fairly similar way too (with those loyal to Jon fighting the mutineers, Mel losing some faith).

Dany has a huge dragon standing right next to her at the end of Dance (unlike the show where Drogon seems to have gone AWOL.) There is absolutely no reason for her to do anything at all that the Dothraki khalasar wants her to do - she can get on Drogon and fly away, burn all of them to pieces, ask for their worship, whatever. But I guarantee they won't be taking her anywhere against her will.

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Yup. Not only will it almost certainly happen as well in TWoW (but differently, with Drogon around from the start rather than what they're going to do on in the TV show), but it was even in the original outline for ASoIaF:

The original plan, when this was a trilogy, was for Daenerys to get the dragons and then use them to conquer the Dothraki much earlier on. Based on the original outline, Slaver's Bay and even Qarth are never mentioned. It actually appears that the dragons grew up much faster and Daenerys turns right around, conquers the Dothraki and invades Westeros en masse very quickly.

I think George's plan was always for Daenerys to join up with the Dothraki, exact her revenge on Mago for his treatment of Doreah and then use them to invade Westeros. Everything else has been effectively giving her something to do whilst he spent vastly more time and detail than originally envisaged on the War of the Five Kings.

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2 hours ago, LadySoftheart said:

Dany has a huge dragon standing right next to her at the end of Dance (unlike the show where Drogon seems to have gone AWOL.) There is absolutely no reason for her to do anything at all that the Dothraki khalasar wants her to do - she can get on Drogon and fly away, burn all of them to pieces, ask for their worship, whatever. But I guarantee they won't be taking her anywhere against her will.

:agree:

It feels like the show would rather have Dany go through some... erhm... hardships before Drogon/Jorah/Jorah come to the rescue. Maybe as a way to remind viewers that the Dothraki are ruthless? Although I'm not sure it was necessary, tbh. 

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l dont think i can really think of a show plot thats even remotely following the books outside of some plot points because D&D love to change everything and then go back to the books.

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4 hours ago, Gertrude said:

How they chose to show Melisandre wasn't a huge shock, and I think it works well for tv. We suspected she was very, very old, but I was imagining it differently. Taking into the account that Mel doesn't need to sleep or eat, and neither does Moqorro stuck in the sea for days, I imagined her as a kind of fire-wight. A parallel to the ice-wights. She doesn't feel the cold, either as she is warmed by the fire that animates her (maybe). I don't think all priests are like this since Thoros didn't seem supernatural, but maybe just high ranking ones. It fits better for me than just being flat-out old and using glamour. I'm holding out hope that the books will tell it differently than the show.

I still have the theory that she's not only super old but also reanimated like Beric and Stoneheart (which would explain why her memories seem foggy and distant in the books and why she doesn't need to eat or sleep), so she's warmed by the "fire of life" or whatever within her (like in "The Road" ;)), and she's gonna pass the "fire" on to Jon like Beric passed it on to Cat. 

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28 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

I still have the theory that she's not only super old but also reanimated like Beric and Stoneheart (which would explain why her memories seem foggy and distant in the books and why she doesn't need to eat or sleep), so she's warmed by the "fire of life" or whatever within her (like in "The Road" ;)), and she's gonna pass the "fire" on to Jon like Beric passed it on to Cat. 

Good insight. Although I disagree with Mel was reanimated cause she's incredibly old and she may be old as the R'hllor religion, but I like the idea that she will pass on her fire to Jon the same way Beric passed his to Cat.

Which brings the question, is all of the Red priests and priestesses old as well?

If that the case, be careful of Kinvara!

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 Right after posting this last night, I looked up Vaes Dothrak and then remembered that this indeed is a thing in the books. I was almost sure that this was a departure at least culturally, but am pleased to see that I was wrong.  

 The absence of Drogon does seem to make things a bit different, but without the internal monologue to describe what Daenerys is thinking, this gets her where she needs to be. 

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10 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

 

3. Martels

I have to believe that this will be a huge deviation. I just don't see Doran being killed off.

 

Ludicrous of me to say this, but I do believe Doran will die in Winds.

Remember, S6 plots are loosely based on Winds and some of the remaining ones in Feast, but mostly from Winds. So we honestly don't know how the Dorne plot will play out in the book, specifically with Doran and Darkstar.

I don't see Doran have any reason to live aside from dealing with Darkstar, let alone his son, Quantyn, died recently. Which since this season just killed off Doran and Areo, this brings a new speculation that they will get kill by Darkstar. Make sense if you think about cause you that would leave Arianne to be the head of Dorne and the Martell house with Aegon having full alliance with the Martells, possibly Darkstar siding with him.

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5 hours ago, Gertrude said:

How they chose to show Melisandre wasn't a huge shock, and I think it works well for tv. We suspected she was very, very old, but I was imagining it differently. Taking into the account that Mel doesn't need to sleep or eat,

Yes but that scene didn't end with just her standing there. They made a point of showing her getting into bed and crawling under the covers. Not sure if it's book canon or show but her magic has some boundaries 

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Yeah, I think what they did for TV works well. If there is something more to it than just a glamour, it would be too complicated to get into for the show. The rest of my post about Mel not sleeping/eating was me speculating about book cannon. Hee hee, spec could get confusing mixing book and show freely.

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2 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Ludicrous of me to say this, but I do believe Doran will die in Winds.

Remember, S6 plots are loosely based on Winds and some of the remaining ones in Feast, but mostly from Winds. So we honestly don't know how the Dorne plot will play out in the book, specifically with Doran and Darkstar.

I don't see Doran have any reason to live aside from dealing with Darkstar, let alone his son, Quantyn, died recently. Which since this season just killed off Doran and Areo, this brings a new speculation that they will get kill by Darkstar. Make sense if you think about cause you that would leave Arianne to be the head of Dorne and the Martell house with Aegon having full alliance with the Martells, possibly Darkstar siding with him.

I sort of think so too, especially because Doran

sent away his protector, Hotah, and is now vulnerable

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Doran could just die of disease if GRRM desires so. He has already "passed the torch" so to speak to Arianne. Buuuut... here's the deal with the Dornish plot in the books: if it's go get Dorne behind Aegon and Aegon' purpose in the narrative is just to weaken the oversized Tyrell army (while Euron does the same from the West)... well, the show never really mentioned the size of the Tyrell army in comparison with their rivals, so it can be as big or small as the showrunners want. The Redwyne Fleet doesn't exist in the show, or at least, it hasn't been mentioned yet.

So, in the show, Dorne becomes unnecessary except for that place where Tyrion sent Myrcella back in season 2. In other words, whatever happens to Dorne this season could point us at Aegon's ultimate fate. If Dorne turns irrelevant this season (say/hopefully it's just mentioned in passing as a region in civil war), then we know Aegon will fail and may take Arianne in his fall.

 

As for Tyrion/Varys... well, Barristan was dealing with an enemy outside the gates. It may be that Tyrion/Varys manage to clean up house in Mereen in time for Yara to arrive with the Iron Fleet, Dany to arrive with a Dokrathi horde and everyone finally get their asses back to Westeros by the end of the season.

Considering that GRRM mentioned that Dany and Tyrion would merely cross paths in TWOW, I believed Dany won't make it back to Mereen and would link with her unsullied infantry and maybe the Iron Fleet near the Essosi western coast by the end of the book. Then again, I don't see why the Unsullied would march west without Dany. Maybe Grey Worm starts his own liberation crusade after hearing about a Volantene revolt or something? In any case, this will be different paths leading to the same goal: Dany's long postponed invasion of Westeros and clash with the Night's King.

Hopefully.

 

Regarding Sansa and co., the storylines are too different at this point. It may be that Sansa's Northern conspiracy sans Stannis (if it happens) mirrors TWOW GNC ditching Stannis and seizing power in Rickon's name.

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Sansa continues Jeyne's plot in Winds, seeing as we know Stannis sends Jeyne to the Wall just like Theon tells Sansa to go to Jon.

I do wonder if Davos's continued presence at the Wall does not reinforce the idea that he goes to Jon with Rickon, after leaving Skagos.

As for Jon's fate. I think Episode 1 has given usa fair depiction of what happens at the Wall directly after his death. The Wall does not suddenly fall. The Horn does not suddenly sound announcing the arrival of the Others in full force. There is not immediate wholesale slaughter.

In fact things are relatively calm, if tense, while the buildup to his big resurrection commences.

Also, Davos's over optimistic faith in Mellisandre, coupled with the depiction of her vulnerability and self doubt makes it more obvious to me that she will not be the one to resurrect him. He will be much more than just another Beric or Lady Stoneheart.

 

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