Orphan Black 3: So, sometimes stuff just works out[SPOILERS]

[denstorebog]

A hit and miss episode. Beth's story is engaging, even if it's obviously made up long after the inception of the first two seasons and tacked on. I liked Malone's actress, if not her convoluted role in the convoluted story, so kinda sad to see her go.

But for fuck's sake, this is turning into a show for veteran doctors. I have absolutely no idea what to feel when Scott says that 'they've wiped all our data', because I have no clue about the significance of that data, and it seems like every other episode there's a moment where all hope seems to be lost and the villains have the upper hand, and then someone comes up with a techy idea that is explained in five seconds and everything is good again. Yeah, so the data is lost, whatever it was. I'm sure they'll get some other data from somewhere else and do some science exposition and all will be good again.

This show was so good when it focused on the thriller / espionage aspects. Now it's just a handful of good character moments mixed in with a fast-moving, incomprehensible plot.

Also, does anyone really want to see this series end in a showdown between the clones and ... Cho? What? After all that mystery about what the clones were for and why they were created, the main villain is now someone who just wants to get rid of the whole cloning experiment and forget about it? That's really short-sighted storytelling.

[Born Yesterday]

We've known for a long time that they're making this up as they go along. The side-effects are not at all unexpected: giant plot holes, jumping from villain to villain without rhyme or reason, entire arcs that make no narrative sense once they're concluded, etc.

Still, even at its lowest (plot-wise), Orphan Black remains great drama and great comedy, delivered by great actors playing great characters, and all the while posing great questions about science and human nature and shit. So despite everything, I love this show.

In this episode, the reveal of Evie Cho's involvement was random enough to distract me. First, if she believes that getting rid of Susan gets rid of the problem, I fail to see how a convoluted conspiracy to destroy every cell of the original and force the clones to stand down is a good backup plan, 4 seasons later. Why not go straight for Susan and get done with it? She was right there.

Second, that "Cho was the one who put the gun in Beth's hand" really came out of the blue. They had plenty of time to set it up this season, have Beth receive intel from an unknown party and then reveal it was Cho, but they didn't. (Unless they did and I missed it?)

More nitpicking: why should Kendall be the only clone-able person? This is neither explained, nor makes any scientific sense as far as I can tell. Also, why do you need cancer cells to find a Leda cell in Kendall's body? She's a female/male chimera with functioning lady parts. Just take a sample from these parts, and you're certain they didn't come from the male twin. There, problem solved.

And I'm not even getting to the clusterfuck of Neolution/Dyad/Topside/Susan Duncan/Castor, who's working for whom and what they even do and how they interact, because I'm sure this will never make sense anyway.

And yet, despite all that, The Scandal of Altruism was a very powerful episode. Beth's now full character arc was just amazing, Kendall's wasn't bad either, and the "all is lost" scene and entire setup was fantastic. I want more, and I still love love LOVE this show.

(It's just a bit of a bummer, because if the planning was better and the plot made more sense, we'd be talking about a sci-fi masterpiece. And now we don't.)

 

[denstorebog]

14 hours ago, Born Yesterday said:

(It's just a bit of a bummer, because if the planning was better and the plot made more sense, we'd be talking about a sci-fi masterpiece. And now we don't.)

Yeah, exactly. It's pretty much precisely how I feel about Battlestar Galactica, which, at its best, is some of the best sci-fi put to any screen. If the last season and a half hadn't veered off into weird territory, it'd be the kind of show I'd just recommend to anyone without any need for caveats. But now both BSG and OB are shows that I describe to people as masterpieces ... before urging a healthy dose of caution.

[Born Yesterday]

5 hours ago, denstorebog said:

Yeah, exactly. It's pretty much precisely how I feel about Battlestar Galactica, which, at its best, is some of the best sci-fi put to any screen.

Heh, I thought about BSG, too.

But making it up as they go along was a disaster for BSG, because it resulted in a huge tonal shift at the end. We were given a thrilling mystery and promised the reveal of a PLAN from day 1, but 6 years later no one had managed to come up with a satisfactory resolution, and the whole thing fizzled with "god did it" - which is exactly as infuriating as "a wizard did it", and only slightly less insulting than "it was all a dream".

(Note that I wouldn't be so salty about BSG's conclusion if I didn't love it so much until then.)

Orphan Black may have its moments of "anticipated reveal proves underwhelming", but it doesn't put all its eggs in one basket. There's not a single overarching mystery, advertised over and over, that we expect to knock us out in the end and neatly explain everything that's happened since the beginning. So a fuck-up of BSG proportions is probably not gonna happen. OB's structure is more "multiple mysteries in rapid succession", so if some of these work and some don't, eh. We can live with it.

If I'm not mistaken, the only mystery that remains from Season 1 is "what the heck is up with Kira". All the other initial questions have been answered (some better than others), and we've moved on to new questions.

 

[Commodore]

Quote

And I'm not even getting to the clusterfuck of Neolution/Dyad/Topside/Susan Duncan/Castor, who's working for whom and what they even do and how they interact, because I'm sure this will never make sense anyway.

This.

If the clones are betamax and obsolete, why is Cho going to such lengths to destroy them? And why leave Cosima alive?

I'm completely lost. need an explainer to keep track of it all.

[Arkash]

For me, no matter what happens in the show, it will always remain unique and special just thanks to Tatiana... but I personally dont feel let down by the story. Sure, some mysteries were lost or forgotten down plot holes, others could have been handled with more subtlety... but in the end, I am truly engaged and invested in that story and will remain so ! 

[Martini Sigil]

13 hours ago, Arkash said:

For me, no matter what happens in the show, it will always remain unique and special just thanks to Tatiana... but I personally dont feel let down by the story. Sure, some mysteries were lost or forgotten down plot holes, others could have been handled with more subtlety... but in the end, I am truly engaged and invested in that story and will remain so ! 

Yeah.... me too.... I can forgive the convoluted story and weird swerves, and retro-arcing, and bad decisions... because in the end it's still just a really fun watch.... and Tatiana Maslany is a singular talent.  

[Igziabeher]

So on the brightside, the all hope is lost episode is behind us, so now it's time for the final ride of Wyatt Earp Sarah Manning and her untouchable seestras.  I really wish Art finished off the mole for neolution in the police union.  He didn't even seem bruised at his appearance at the Hendrixes later on that night.

We get the reveal that Delphine might still be alive, but who picked her up? I can't think of any pro-Leda people out there that are unaccounted for.  Cool to see M.K. make her return the way she did.  I look forward to seeing if she goes all in with her sisters or remains in the fringe.  Wonder if Rachel is going to tip off the other clones that neolution has put a hit on all of them.  Really want to see the remaining 7 clones(sans Tony) unite under a common cause for once.

[denstorebog]

The episode in which absolutely nothing happened. Sarah went on the suicide path, but changed her mind. Cosima decided to implant the worm that they spent so much time getting out of Sarah,  but changed her mind. So, no plot developments in all of 50 minutes. I can't think of a single thing that moved things along (we already knew that Delphine was alive). 

Stopping the plot completely is actually fine by me, since it doesn't make sense anymore. But how they could make a Hendrix slumber party and Sarah bar hopping so utterly uninteresting is really quite remarkable.

This felt like filler on every level. From weird little shots of S loading her shotgun, to showing 20 facial shots of the lead singer during the bar scene, to Rachel and Susan completely ignoring Castor clone's suicide attempt last ep, to all the main characters ending up where they were when the episode started, to Felix forgetting to tell Cosima that the love of her life isn't dead (what!?), this was just more fuel for my disappointment in the series post-season 2. Bleh. Kill this show off already and let us keep the memories of two great seasons.

[karaddin]

I normally disagree with you, but that post there is really peak disagreement to the point of confusion.  Character development is a thing, emotional fallout is a thing. A ton happened in this episode and you even listed it, you've just (like some other people) arbitrarily declared it to be nothing/filler if its primarily internal to a character rather than extrinsic plot movements.  Stories comprised solely of the latter are dramatically inferior works imo, plot works best when driven by the character emotional beats and that's what this was all about.

Clone club hits rock bottom and almost shatters under the strain, before ultimately pulling back together - Sarah & Felix are working together again, Sarah & S are finding a way past things as well, Alison & Sarah seem likely to bury the hatchet and start working together with Alison finally putting some attention back on her sisters and needing help saving Donnie, and Cosima has found hope again.  This was an amazing episode and exactly what you need after the huge events of the previous week, that much loss has to have an impact and at this point having them all be on the edge of breaking makes perfect sense.  The season has also been utterly amazing, I really don't understand how you could say season 1 and 2 were great but not like 3 or this, I feel like 2 was clearly the weakest, with 3 a substantial improvement over that and 4 on the standard of 1.  Everyone's tastes vary, but how about you just stop watching instead of calling for a show to be killed off that most people seem to feel has been doing better not worse.

[HexMachina]

Yes it was a slow episode plot wise, but I think it was exactly what was needed after the utter disaster that hit Clone Club last week. It would have felt a bit jarring if things had gone on as though nothing had changed after last week. Plus, we got a bit of backstory in Neolution, which I thought was interesting. It also pretty much confirmed, IMO, a psychological link between the clones, which further manifests itself in Kira.

At the end, was that supposed to be Rachel's Neo-Eye glitching out? Is that supposed to be significant?

[SpaceChampion]

I think it was MK hacking Rachel's eye, assuming it has a wifi or bluetooth connection.

[denstorebog]

11 hours ago, karaddin said:

I normally disagree with you, but that post there is really peak disagreement to the point of confusion.  Character development is a thing, emotional fallout is a thing. A ton happened in this episode and you even listed it, you've just (like some other people) arbitrarily declared it to be nothing/filler if its primarily internal to a character rather than extrinsic plot movements.  Stories comprised solely of the latter are dramatically inferior works imo, plot works best when driven by the character emotional beats and that's what this was all about.

A primary reason why S1 and 2 were so good was because they managed to make plot and character development the same thing. That's pretty much the epitome of good plotting. The BSG finale failed so hard because it decided to abandon the plot and answers in favor of character moments.

11 hours ago, karaddin said:

Everyone's tastes vary, but how about you just stop watching instead of calling for a show to be killed off

First, I still loved the first episode of the season, while two or so of the others had a lot of good moments. I still want to experience the good parts of OB, even though there are fewer and fewer of them.

The second reason is that I find it interesting to see how writers decide to tackle knots that they've gotten themselves entangled in. Creative writing is part of my professional and private life, and I'm interested in learning both what to do and don't.

(If what you really meant was "why do you keep posting criticism in this thread", well, I don't see the problem. I love discussing plotting. I have no problem with reading the posts of all the people who still enjoy the show. It doesn't diminish my own view of what OB is, and I think it can work the other way around as well.)

11 hours ago, karaddin said:

instead of calling for a show to be killed off that most people seem to feel has been doing better not worse.

It always makes me feel iffy when someone in passing decides to speak for 'most people', but I'm sure you get that data from somewhere. Where, exactly? Because a quick look shows that the US ratings for S1, 2 and 3 were pretty constant with a slight decline, but with season 4, the series lost almost 60% of its viewership (!) from the get-go, and now averages out at half the viewership. Something happened there, maybe multiple things - but people didn't just abandon the show in droves because the show was moved, but still as good as always. I expect to see another dip at the beginning of season 5.

So yeah. I don't particularly like discussing numbers in these threads, but it seemed relevant as a response.

[karaddin]

I have no issues with you posting criticism in the thread, and was simply engaging your criticism for the most part - I find your opinions incomprehensible, but that's not a problem.  It was specifically the "Kill this show off already and let us keep the memories" that I was objecting to, since it's both calling for the cancellation and (at least as I read it) also claiming to speak for everyone.  Maybe the majority of the audience is not enjoying this season and that may well be reflected in the ratings, the majority of people who post in this thread whose opinions register with me (and for the record, you are someone who does register, you just are in the group that doesn't agree with this) seem to be enjoying this season more.  That's a self selecting and hugely skewed way of measuring it to be sure, but I simply meant 'most in this conversation, whom I thought you were speaking on behalf of'.

Please by all means continue watching the show and critiquing it as you see fit, I don't typically object to that and find the flame wars that erupt around 'just stop watching' tiresome.  Just a sore spot because I'm absolutely loving the show and from a certain point of view, it is already cancelled - there is just another season to go

Tat is truly amazing though, I thought that 3 seasons ago and it just gets more and more true, the different clones are such distinct and discrete characters that I cannot think of them as all the same actress when I'm thinking of screen time, she just has made them so individually clear.

I completely disagree with the finale of BSG btw, perhaps within the context of that one episode it was all about the characters, but it just doesn't fit to me because it wasn't consistent and didn't fit the characters. It was just bad writing full stop.

[Igziabeher]

I think season 4 has been a step up from season 3.  I can't speak for the ratings, cuz I've never followed the ratings in the first place, but it did change it's original air day from Saturday to Thursday and I've seen other shows ratings drop off when they go thru a change like that.  Do I think season 2 was miles better than season 4?  Not particularly.  I think the show has evolved, and it most definitely has always been a character study on how a set of clones can see the world differently.  So there had always been some exchange rate of plot for characterization, but I don't think the plot is absolutely horrid.  It's bounced around a bit changing the big bad from Dyad to Prolethians to Castor now to Neolution, but now that it's settled on what I assume to be the major evil force, I think it has a chance to settle in.

[Igziabeher]

I can't take a villain that wears earmuffs seriously. 

[RedEyedGhost]

3 hours ago, Igziabeher said:

I can't take a villain that wears earmuffs seriously. 

Seriously!  I don't think I've ever seen anybody other than a little girl wearing earmuffs in real life.

[denstorebog]

Well,  not to placate the OB lovers, but this was finally a good episode, probably the first for me since ep 1 this season. The reason was really obvious as I was watching: I always knew what the fuck was going on. Seriously, it was a relief to finally see Orphan Black in a version where I knew what people wanted and what they did to achieve it. Getting Malone out of the way and reducing the genetics stuff to a bare minimum was really the key here.

There were a couple of places were logic was strained. Alison committing time to rehearsing a community musical while her husband's life was in danger was extremely unbelievable, but I can see why they wanted the scene. I've also found Mrs. S.'s relationship with her mother to be very ambiguously established - she continually threatened to drown Malone in acid in the last season - so her rash desire for murderous vengeance seemed a bit sudden. But on the other hand I feel that they've had a hard time finding actual stuff for Mrs. S. to do since season 2, so at least it's good to see her in a proactive role.

I will never forgive them for the late introduction of Cho (and Dukow) as main antagonists. It's just too random and late to make for good drama. I'm hoping that Rachel will become the final villain of season 5 - that's the only way to create some actual, personal conflict at this point as I see it.

In any case, a good episode that hearkened back to the simplicity and fun of season 1 and 2.

[Arkash]

Personally, I'd be frustrated if Rachel ends up the main antagonist. I think the character has had quite an interesting path and is more relevant to the story as a (even if a little reluctant and distant) member of Clone Club.

[Igziabeher]

I hope they dispatch of Evie Cho in the next two episodes and have the last season focused on their main antagonist, the disease that terrorizes Castor and Leda.  But as that's not enough of an antagonist for tv drama, they're going to have to keep an evil face around or bring in a new one.