karaddin Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Well Capitalism in the real world seems to be heading in that direction rather quickly, so it would only be realistic! I'm perhaps getting more concerned about Kira, although I still don't think actually having her die fits the shows tone. The sudden improvement in the relationship of Sarah and S was really well done though I thought, they had done all the work needed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Adele is fantastic... just a flighty neurotic lovable mess, wrapped in a really smart, capable young woman who makes awful life decisions... The Kira thing is annoying me.... she;s still a child... and yet she runs the house... its not like she's getting her way about going to a water park... she's insisting on getting experimented on by a murderous psychopath.... and Sarah gives in?... really?... "Oh... OK Kira.... you can go to the evil laboratory... but no ice cream before dinner, young lady!" every time Mud is on, I think of Wile e Coyote... and I internally giggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 51 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said: Adele is fantastic... just a flighty neurotic lovable mess, wrapped in a really smart, capable young woman who makes awful life decisions... The Kira thing is annoying me.... she;s still a child... and yet she runs the house... its not like she's getting her way about going to a water park... she's insisting on getting experimented on by a murderous psychopath.... and Sarah gives in?... really?... "Oh... OK Kira.... you can go to the evil laboratory... but no ice cream before dinner, young lady!" every time Mud is on, I think of Wile e Coyote... and I internally giggle. I'm not sure Sarah has a lot of choice to be honest. She doesn't want to turn Kira against her by uprooting her life and taking her in the run against her will. But at the same time she clearly isn't happy about Kira going to Rachel, and is making efforts to put an end to it, only she's doing so covertly. Plus she only found out about Kira's self-mutilation this week. Kira didn't yet go back to Dyad since then. I mean, what can Sarah really do at this stage? She and her sisters don't have a lot of bargaining power with Neolution right now. It's why she and S go on their (freaking awesome) con mission together - because they need something as leverage against Neolution. As for Kira wanting to stay and allowing the experiments to go on, it makes a lot of sense. First off, she's had a very disrupted life. Children like and need some kind stability, so the idea of yet again taking off with Sarah and going into hiding isn't exactly appealing. In addition to this, Kira wants to understand herself. She's undeniably unique, and Rachel offers the chance to understand what this is and what it means. I think anyone experiencing what Kira does would want to get to the truth. It's just unfortunate she has to rely on a sociopath and a skeevy, unethical walking corpse. eta: @karaddin I think this season will explore some pretty dark stuff with Kira (and others - see MK's death, the experiments on the child on the Island etc). But because of the tone of the show, as you mention, I think it will end in a good way for her and the sisters (I.e. Not with her death). I certainly hope I am right about that. If I'm not...well I just hope it's handled tastefully/well and doesn't feel like a cheap move for shock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 The Kira plot annoys me too. Child actors tend to be the bane of any show's existence and this one is just sucking the life out of this final season. If they knew that the child actor would be central to the end plot, they really should have started with a baby or toddler so that it would have been easier to change out the actor as she grew. Not much time has passed in the show so it's ridiculous Kira started out as a tiny pre-schooler and is now a tween. It makes the stakes seem comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I have to say, for the first time in this series Kira is beginning to annoy me. Not because she insists on the Rachel/Neolution stuff: just something about the way the actress is playing her. I don't know if it's deliberate, but it's there. Anyway, yeah, it is nowhere near as simple as Sarah or even S putting their foot down with Kira. Going on the run from a well-resourced organisation is hard enough: with a kid who doesn't want to be there, it simply won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 35 minutes ago, mormont said: I have to say, for the first time in this series Kira is beginning to annoy me. Not because she insists on the Rachel/Neolution stuff: just something about the way the actress is playing her. I don't know if it's deliberate, but it's there. Anyway, yeah, it is nowhere near as simple as Sarah or even S putting their foot down with Kira. Going on the run from a well-resourced organisation is hard enough: with a kid who doesn't want to be there, it simply won't work. I agree with you regarding the actress playing Kira actually. I don't think her way of portraying Kira has changed much from previous seasons, but as she is more prominent in terms of plot this season it's more noticeable. I think it's because she has a vacant expression throuout most of her scenes. Bit disappointing but doesn't take much from my overall enjoyment of this season, thankfully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 This season certainly seems to be doubling down on the disturbing stuff. Thought this was a very strong episode that did a lot to advance the plot and bring things together. Loved Cosima and Delphine's scenes together, especially when they walked down looking like they were about to get married (there was a shot of this in a promo I watched...I mistakenly thought they actually were getting married). It was also nice to see some acknowledgement that their relationship isn't perfect but they love each other anyway, and to have it reiterated that all the unpleasant stuff Delphine does is to protect and help Cosima. The dinner scene with Westmoreland, Susan, Ira, Rachel, Delphine and Cosima was brilliant. The ending was deeply distressing though Was also happy to see Sarah re-establishing her relationship with Kira and bringing her into the know...it's about time, really. Yes she's young, but she's in the middle of some seriously messed up stuff. It's probably more dangerous to keep her ignorant. The secrecy surrounding Delphine helping Mrs. S doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I understand that the more people who know, the greater the chance of discovery, but does it really make a huge difference having Sarah and S know versus just having S know? It's not like Sarah will run and tell Rachel, or inadvertently let something slip to Rachel over coffee. So, Westmoreland is not actually Westmoreland, he is just a fraud pretending to be to give himself an air of importance/legitimacy? Why didn't this rather obvious possibility occur to me before it was suggested on the show? I also really loved the theme of this episode, of the patriarchal control over women's bodies/lives, and standing up to prevent that. Beautiful scene between Delphine and Cosima when Cosima speaks about being 'owned' and Delphine says they can't possess her humanity, her humour, etc. Touching stuff. And I'm glad they didn't tiptoe around this topic (patriarchal control) and just explicitly made it a focus of the episode. I'm all for explicitness on this kind of thing right now. Wondering if we will actually see Alison again this season. Her episode seems more and more like a goodbye. Maybe we see her again in the finale when everything is resolved and the sisters reunite, hopefully saying hello to Helena's twins? Mild spoiler from next week's promo... Krystal's back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: So, Westmoreland is not actually Westmoreland, he is just a fraud pretending to be to give himself an air of importance/legitimacy? Why didn't this rather obvious possibility occur to me before it was suggested on the show? I was thinking a clone, but imperfectly done so he is aging rapidly like Dolly the Sheep. I don't know if they'll go there, but with a brain transplant from the original PTW. They've lost the original PTW dna so cannot make a good copy of him, just more that age rapidly. So he needs gene therapy with Kira's magic gene to age normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said: I was thinking a clone, but imperfectly done so he is aging rapidly like Dolly the Sheep. I don't know if they'll go there, but with a brain transplant from the original PTW. They've lost the original PTW dna so cannot make a good copy of him, just more that age rapidly. So he needs gene therapy with Kira's magic gene to age normally. That would be an interesting route to go. Not sure if they will go as complicated as that, or just keep it as an old scientist masquerading as Westmoreland to save himself from old age. But your idea is certainly interesting. Also, if he is a fake I don't think Susan or anyone else is aware of it. Rachel certainly isn't. He needs to maintain this God-like facade to maintain his authority over the cult camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 It's definitely a cult, with a book and messiah. We have to see Alison again. I wonder if she's in Geneva too, or forced to go somewhere else for Rachel. Would be nice to see Donnie help out Clone Club, especially to be there for Helena, but he's probably got his hands full with the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said: The secrecy surrounding Delphine helping Mrs. S doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I understand that the more people who know, the greater the chance of discovery, but does it really make a huge difference having Sarah and S know versus just having S know? It's not like Sarah will run and tell Rachel, or inadvertently let something slip to Rachel over coffee. Well... Sarah did just decide to start telling Kira things without consulting with S first, so there's that. 12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said: So, Westmoreland is not actually Westmoreland, he is just a fraud pretending to be to give himself an air of importance/legitimacy? Why didn't this rather obvious possibility occur to me before it was suggested on the show? At this stage I think it's still just a possibility. If it's true, he's fooled some smart people (Coady, Susan, Rachel and possibly Leekie) so he must have something more than just some stylish outfits to back it up. It'll be interesting seeing how this shakes out. Maybe Scott's detective work exposes him? That would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I'm missing both Alison and Helena. I hope we see more of them. I was very uneasy with that scene with Sarah putting Kira in the know when S arrives, especially when Kira was saying you need to give people what they want to put them at their ease. Did I imagine a connection with Kira giving Sarah what she wanted (a closer connection with Kira) to get the info she was after? Am I being too cynical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Perhaps too cynical. Sarah has close relationships with Felix, S, and her sestras, so we know she has a model for how to achieve that, and we know that connection is genuine. Whenever they need something from each other they give it when that makes sense personally as not crossing any boundaries, because they do trust each other, and as this season's tagline says together they are stronger. The way to closer connections is usually through sharing vulnerabilities. Kira voiced her desires for understanding herself, expressing her vulnerability over being different. Sarah is making an effort to help her, and also give her options about who she shapes herself to be, and helping her be stronger together. Sarah is sharing with Kira her vulnerabilities too, as much as Kira can understand, which is perhaps more than most parents are comfortable with. Yeah, Sarah wants information, but Kira certainly will benefit from that info too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said: Perhaps too cynical. Sarah has close relationships with Felix, S, and her sestras, so we know she has a model for how to achieve that, and we know that connection is genuine. Whenever they need something from each other they give it when that makes sense personally as not crossing any boundaries, because they do trust each other, and as this season's tagline says together they are stronger. The way to closer connections is usually through sharing vulnerabilities. Kira voiced her desires for understanding herself, expressing her vulnerability over being different. Sarah is making an effort to help her, and also give her options about who she shapes herself to be, and helping her be stronger together. Sarah is sharing with Kira her vulnerabilities too, as much as Kira can understand, which is perhaps more than most parents are comfortable with. Yeah, Sarah wants information, but Kira certainly will benefit from that info too. I figured I must be, as no-one else mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Can I just say I'd forgotten how much I love Krystal. I mean, she's the comic relief, but she also takes absolutely zero shit. Tatiana must have an absolute ball playing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Krystal is a fab character. Great to see her in this ep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Krystal was an absolute goldmine of hilarity this episode, from calling Sarah Australian, her Skype chat ("is she necessary? She's like, so rude, every time!") and her lack of subtlety when Sarah tells her not to be obvious that she was asking about Dyad it was also pretty cool having Tat's boyfriemd play the bearded goon. The episode overall was great I thought, though had two very contrasting stories going on, with Krystal's comic relief and the more serious island chenanigans. PT is an awful awful person, and he and Coady shape up as a great pair of antagonists to end the series. I loved Susan and Ira's efforts to undo the damage Susan and PT (or, John, apparently) had done together. Was surprised that she knew the truth of the myth about his age though. RIP to Susan and Ira though. As skeevy as the relationship was, it was nevertheless very touching seeing them die beside each other. My one problem so far this season is that we haven't seen enough of all the characters. I want to see the corporate espionage in Geneva with Felix Adele and Delphine. I mean, that sounds like great TV. And we've also seen very little of Alison and Helena, which is disappointing (though I see from the promo that the latter will be back next week). Speaking of the promo I spy Gracie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I've been waiting for Krystal since the start of the season... and they didn;t disappoint... damn that was wonderful... I really hope Scott gets laid.... he deserves it... Every time I hear the name Mud I giggle like schoolgirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I felt so sad for Ira, which was quite the feat when I just wanted the Castor clones gone before he was brought in. Poor guy was nothing like his brothers and deserved a better life surrounded by better people that didn't abuse him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 A Rachel-centric episode was always going to be excellent, but this surpassed my expectations. The flashbacks were very insightful and showed how her experience growing up considering herself as simply the possession of others influenced how she is now. Loved the scenes cutting between PT giving her possession of herself (which, ew, so disgusting, but obviously it's hugely important for Rachel given her upbringing) and her realisation that it's all a lie. Have to say that I thought from almost the beginning of the episode she would end up helping Kira escape, but the fact that was obvious didn't detract from the episode at all. Alison's return was weird. "Liver deep" Nice to see the return of Mark and Gracie. Interesting to see what happens with each of them (and how Gracie found Helena). That last scene @karaddin good luck with this one Not going to lie, I actually curled myself up into a ball cringing watching it. Eta: very interesting. Their promo for next week contains no footage of next week at all. Spoiler-y I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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