Orphan Black 3: So, sometimes stuff just works out[SPOILERS]

[HelenaExMachina]

10 hours ago, karaddin said:

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I was actually pretty moved by it being Rachel that helped her do it as well after Sarah had noped on out of that. It never ceases to amaze me that these are all such utterly distinct characters, I forget they're played by the same actress.

 

Agreed, and it was quite a surprise too. The "Old Rachel" would probably have broken the needle but things have changed. Looks like we will get a slightly different Rachel this season - that looks as she came down from Westmoreland's manor was great, if slightly creepy. Very much "I am a true believer now and am blessed to be part of this community." Revival comes across more cultish the more I think about it.

Tatiana truly is great. Never seems to put in a bad performance or slip up in her portrayal of each clone. I don't think there are many actors or actresses out there who could do what she does as well as she does it.

[SpaceChampion]

Good interview with the producers.

Quote

9. Greg M. via Facebook: You’ve said you always wanted a 5 year show and had a plan for it. Have you stuck with that plan or was there an instance where you had to course correct?
JF: Oh, there have been plenty of course corrections. We don’t have crystal balls, and we plan, and certainly had a specific sort of structure in mind and kind of an endpoint to head towards. But Graeme and I like to work somewhat organically and so, as the new ideas arrive you want to be able to incorporate them. It’s definitely gone in directions that even Graeme and I couldn’t have ever foreseen.

And certainly right up to the very ending, we had a plan for Episodes 9 and 10, had gone down a path and written scripts, and kind of started to realize that maybe that wasn’t the right way. That the way we had seen from the beginning… that there was possibly a better answer to that. So even at the 11th hour we ended up rewriting Episodes 9 and 10 to suit something that we felt worked better. It was significant redirection; it wasn’t a small thing. It’s always the best idea that serves the story and the characters — that’s what we go for. So as much as you can plan ahead, you do, and sometimes you just don’t see all the twists and turns in advance.

 

[HelenaExMachina]

Interesting. BBC America also had a short video thing which I think was an amalgamation of several shows, presumably for Pride month...spoilers abound

There was footage of Cosima and Delphine and I would be shocked if they aren't getting married in that scene

[RedEyedGhost]

This is a SPOILER thread.  No need to tag all of the episode related stuff.

I don't get all the love for Cophine.  Delphine's a horrible person.

[Werthead]

That's a spoiler for unaired episodes, so yes, definitely that needs to go under a spoiler tag.

There does seem to be a lot of talk that the season as a whole is strong (wrapping everything up) but episodes 7-10 are particularly good. I'm hoping they deliver a good finale.

I'm also looking forwards to rewatching the show in one go. A relatively compact 50 episodes (which they were lucky to get, given the audience figures) with a good beginning, middle and end makes a nice change from shows that either get cancelled too soon or go on for way too long and become too daunting to start.

[karaddin]

17 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

This is a SPOILER thread.  No need to tag all of the episode related stuff.

I don't get all the love for Cophine.  Delphine's a horrible person.

There are plenty of meta reasons for it due to the wider media landscape in 2016, but also chemistry between the actresses, and also that she's really pretty.

Most of her morally questionable decisions since falling for Cosima have been driven by knowing the woman she loves is dying and doing everything she can to save her. The worst I'm remembering is the threat to/torture (did she actually do it, or just threaten and may not have carried through?) of the new gf (Shae? The actress was Kenzi in lost girl), which was driven by strong suspicion she was a spy. It's not defensible in an actual person, but it's the kind of thing we're used to excusing for love in dramatic fiction.

 

[HelenaExMachina]

18 hours ago, karaddin said:

There are plenty of meta reasons for it due to the wider media landscape in 2016, but also chemistry between the actresses, and also that she's really pretty.

Most of her morally questionable decisions since falling for Cosima have been driven by knowing the woman she loves is dying and doing everything she can to save her. The worst I'm remembering is the threat to/torture (did she actually do it, or just threaten and may not have carried through?) of the new gf (Shae? The actress was Kenzi in lost girl), which was driven by strong suspicion she was a spy. It's not defensible in an actual person, but it's the kind of thing we're used to excusing for love in dramatic fiction.

 

This is more or less the response I was going to make too. Delphine is...well I don't think she is a horrible person, but she isn't someone who has done horrible things, especially with the torture stuff (which is definitely inexcusable). But her every action is motivated by her desire to save Cosima (and her sisters) first and foremost. Even if that means doing things which may lead Cosima to hate her. And the relationship is (as I understand anyway) well loved by the LGBTQI+ community because the fact it's a same-sex relationship is pretty much irrelevant, it's a very real, very complicated relationship between two women that isn't often seen on TV. As I believe Cosima says, being a lesbian is the least fascinating thing about her.

 

Anyway, this week's episode was really good. Thoughts that cropped up in my mind early in the episode were actually relevant by the end (Namely: have they considered what Kira wants? Have they considered that it might be good to learn the truth? I know they have every reason not to trust Rachel and Neolution but still). Great intro to Westmoreland, and the actor has a strong presence which fits well with the role. MK's death was much darker and more upsetting than I would have expected, and the twisted revenge fantasy of Ferdinand was disturbing but well done. It does make me more concerned for Kira, going back to Karradin's comments last week. 

Looking forward to seeing more of Alison and Helena later this season. 

 

Edited June 18 by HelenaExMachina

[karaddin]

Yeah, I don't like Ferdinand anymore. He was always an evil fuck but when he's strangling neolution goons I could roll with it. That really savage murder of MK? No. Not even an actor I like is saving you, set Helena loose on him. Helena's departure from the hospital was another thing I *really* struggled with. And Westmoreland was indeed great, excellent casting there.

[RedEyedGhost]

On 6/17/2017 at 2:25 PM, Werthead said:

That's a spoiler for unaired episodes, so yes, definitely that needs to go under a spoiler tag.

The excessive tagging on page 11 is to what I was referring.

 

On 6/17/2017 at 5:33 PM, karaddin said:

There are plenty of meta reasons for it due to the wider media landscape in 2016, but also chemistry between the actresses, and also that she's really pretty.

Most of her morally questionable decisions since falling for Cosima have been driven by knowing the woman she loves is dying and doing everything she can to save her. The worst I'm remembering is the threat to/torture (did she actually do it, or just threaten and may not have carried through?) of the new gf (Shae? The actress was Kenzi in lost girl), which was driven by strong suspicion she was a spy. It's not defensible in an actual person, but it's the kind of thing we're used to excusing for love in dramatic fiction.

I guess I just don't care about the meta stuff.  I also don't understand how Cosima can forgive her for betraying her so completely in season 1.  The threatening (and being fully willing) to murder Shae because of bad intel (believed because of her jealousy) was just psychopathic.

 

12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Anyway, this week's episode was really good. Thoughts that cropped up in my mind early in the episode were actually relevant by the end (Namely: have they considered what Kira wants? Have they considered that it might be good to learn the truth? I know they have every reason not to trust Rachel and Neolution but still). Great intro to Westmoreland, and the actor has a strong presence which fits well with the role. MK's death was much darker and more upsetting than I would have expected, and the twisted revenge fantasy of Ferdinand was disturbing but well done. It does make me more concerned for Kira, going back to Karradin's comments last week. 

Looking forward to seeing more of Alison and Helena later this season. 

MK's murder was one of the most brutal on-screen deaths that I can ever recall seeing.  Just awful.  I hope Ferdinand gets his comeuppance. 

 

2 hours ago, karaddin said:

Yeah, I don't like Ferdinand anymore. He was always an evil fuck but when he's strangling neolution goons I could roll with it. That really savage murder of MK? No. Not even an actor I like is saving you, set Helena loose on him. Helena's departure from the hospital was another thing I *really* struggled with. And Westmoreland was indeed great, excellent casting there.

How so?  She had me believing that that nurse was working for Neolution by the time she took off.  Apparently you can catch crazy.  

[karaddin]

I wasn't suggesting you'd care about the meta reasons, just that I do. I'm a queer woman, I saw a lot of queer women killed in shows I watch last year and it really upset me. At the same time I had OB showing me just how much Cosima loved Delphine and then Delphine got brought back. 

As to the Helena/Hospital thing - I don't mean I struggled with why she left, I'm being deliberately vague because it was fucking gross but I mean what she did really triggers my "ewwww no no no" response.

[Nictarion]

MK's death was some shit straight out of a Scorsese movie. Fucking brutal. 

[HelenaExMachina]

On 20/06/2017 at 5:54 AM, RedEyedGhost said:

The excessive tagging on page 11 is to what I was referring.

 

I guess I just don't care about the meta stuff.  I also don't understand how Cosima can forgive her for betraying her so completely in season 1.  The threatening (and being fully willing) to murder Shae because of bad intel (believed because of her jealousy) was just psychopathic.

 

MK's murder was one of the most brutal on-screen deaths that I can ever recall seeing.  Just awful.  I hope Ferdinand gets his comeuppance. 

 

How so?  She had me believing that that nurse was working for Neolution by the time she took off.  Apparently you can catch crazy.  

I hope and expect Ferdinand to get his comeuppance. I'll be interested to see where it comes from though, because I could actually see Rachel having him killed at some stage down the line. Don't think we've seen the last of him though. I think he hates Sarah and her sisters just as much as he hates Rachel and Neolution.

I actually agree regarding the nurse. I was convinced she was Neolution by the time Helena stabbed her even if that might be a bit crazy. It was really gross to look at though. Did enjoy Donnie's second hilarious running away scene of the season (though last week's where he's try to wheel a suitcase through the woods was funnier). Trying to think where Helena would go to be safe where no one would find her. Not turning up anything yet, though I suspect it's going to be a throwback to an earlier season.

 

I rewatched the episode again tonight and got an even greater appreciation for it. It took the stuff Orphan Black has done well in the past, that we might have expected, and turned it on its head. Sarah needs to run, an underground network makes plans to get her away, Sarah impersonates another clone, Sarah gets away. But this time it goes wrong - Sarah's disguise is busted, a clone dies (sacrifices herself?) in the process, and at the end they don't go because Kira refuses. It was really cleverly done. And the stuff with Sarah and Kira was pretty heartbreaking. Sarah does everything for Kira so seeing them parted and Kira willingly agree to go with Rachel was tough. 

I think Maslany gets better each season, if that's even possible.

[Martini Sigil]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I think Maslany gets better each season, if that's even possible.

Agreed... she is an absolute monster.... I'd love to watch the show with someone who didn;t know that all those characters were played by the same actress, and see if they could figure it out...

[RedEyedGhost]

I can't believe you're all so weirded out by the nurse scene.  Don't you know anybody with a lip ring?  It wasn't any worse than that.  I don't understand how she didn't just pull it out and call security.

I could see Helena's safe place being that abandoned building where Tomas kept her in the cage.

 

6 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

Agreed... she is an absolute monster.... I'd love to watch the show with someone who didn;t know that all those characters were played by the same actress, and see if they could figure it out...

She really is amazing.  I don't know how many times I've forgotten that all of the different clones are her.

 

[karaddin]

I know people with lip rings, I would have smooch faces with them, but that doesn't mean a giant needle through one cheek, through the middle of the tongue and out the other cheek into a table doesn't gross me the fuck out. Its a completely different part of the cheek being pierced and a long hole to go through the tongue laterally like that!

Also I wouldn't watch it being done.

[SpaceChampion]

I guess the head was being stored in Cosima's lab under the comic store?

I always thought the show was keeping Alison in reserve for something, aside from comic relief.  As the politician of the sisters, if they went public with their existence in order to demand freedom and be able to contact all the other unknown Leda clones, I'd expect Alison to be the public face.  Maybe she's going to do that after figuring out who she is.

 

[Martini Sigil]

still no Krystal..... boooooooooo

who rocks a kilt like Donny?...... No one, that's who.

Edited June 26 by Martini Sigil

[HelenaExMachina]

Krystal will be along, don't worry.

Alison centric episode, wonderful as ever. Really quite moving seeing her existential crises over the course of the episode. Want to add an aside that as soon as she appeared in the first scene I could tell it was a flashback, even before they showed Ainsley. So well done to the show for that. Maslany is so good you can detect subtle difference in clone impersonations and even the same clone in different time frames. Great work. Her and Donnie singing Ain't no Mountain was touching. 

Well done whoever it was guessed where Helena would go. But, surely this isn't a church she grew up in - weren't they Proletheans, or at least in league with them? And located in Ukraine or something? She surely isn't that far. Will be interested to see what's what here.

 

The stuff with Kira is pretty creepy and disturbing. I wonder if Rachel is actively asking her to do things or just gently nudging her (This mouse can regrow its skin, I wonder if you could too?) Similar to Cosima's treatment, Kira overhears the conversation then yanks out her own tooth...whatever, it's disturbing.

(Obviously it's not been shown (yet) but that certainly seemed to be the implication folllowing the shot with the knife)

Promo for next week looks good. Also, based on the clips from before the season started (so still unaired)

i wonder if we get flashbacks for most of the clobes this season as a sort of last hurrah - look how far they've come? Ok maybe not all. I dont think a Sarah flashback would serve much purpose at this late stage. But we know little about Cosima pre-Clone club so a bit of backstory could be nice. I only suggest this because of Alison this week and what looked to be Helena's first clone kill in the early promo clips

Edited June 26 by HelenaExMachina

[HelenaExMachina]

Interesting episode, a lot more plot heavy than the previous few. I liked spending more time on the Island and revelations about Susan and Virginia. Can't trouble myself to scroll back right now, but I seem to recall speculating that Virginia may come back when I did my rewatch of seasons 1-4 last year. Obviously I didn't predict that this would happen but I like it, and doesn't feel forced. Makes for an even weirder dynamic between Ira and Susan though, given his mother-lover also imprisoned and forcibly sedated the woman in charge of Castor. 

Really like the actor portraying Westmoreland, he has an almost aristocratic air about him which fits perfectly for a wealthy 19th Century scientist. His scenes also feel very Gothic. Can't explain why but they do, and it works well for me. Rosemary Dunsmore is also a wonderful actress so it was great to see the two in their scenes together.

glad to see Adele come back. I think the whole revealing Sarah and co are clones things deserved a bit more attention but I get it, time constraints.

Mrs. S is the best

 

eta: Ira's jealousy regarding Susan and Westmoreland was both hilarious and disturbing

Edited July 2 by HelenaExMachina

[SpaceChampion]

I was waiting for / dreading a creepy incesty reveal like in Helix with Mud and Susan as daughters of PTW, doing breeding experiments.

On the matter of PTW's rejuvenation treatment, gotta be the blood of the young, ya?

Edited July 2 by SpaceChampion