What did this episode spoil about AsoIaF/tWoW? [Spoilers]

[Daske]

On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 8:12 AM, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Also how did you reach the conclusion that Trystane and Doran will die in the books based on what we saw tonight?  Ellaria who killed them on the show is the polar opposite of book Ellaria.

Wasn't me that said that but on past form most of the deaths in the show have been the same or close to the books. The exceptions have been a few very minor characters, and the rest are recent ones (Stannis, Shireen, Barristan, now Doran, Trystane), so it makes sense that these will happen in the next book. Maybe not, but seems likely. The differences in plot lines between show and book have not been that different that these characters would not die imo.

 

[SevasTra82]

1 hour ago, Daske said:

Wasn't me that said that but on past form most of the deaths in the show have been the same or close to the books. The exceptions have been a few very minor characters, and the rest are recent ones (Stannis, Shireen, Barristan, now Doran, Trystane), so it makes sense that these will happen in the next book. Maybe not, but seems likely. The differences in plot lines between show and book have not been that different that these characters would not die imo.

 

Keep in mind, GRRM said himself that there are people who die in the show that remain alive throughout the entire ASOIAF series.

So at this point, nothing the show does can be taken literally with the books any longer.  They are two separate entities doing their own thing.

[SevasTra82]

23 hours ago, redeagl said:

Mel is older than SS. She is 400 years old.

Not necessarily.  the "400 year old" quote comes from an actor on the show during an interview, there is nothing concrete in the show nor the books that indicate she is *that* old.

There is actually plenty of evidence in the books that she *is* SS and BR's daughter.  Of course, the show could do it's own thing and make her as old as they want, but at least by book canon, the evidence points to closer to 100 then 400.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

1 hour ago, Daske said:

Wasn't me that said that but on past form most of the deaths in the show have been the same or close to the books. The exceptions have been a few very minor characters, and the rest are recent ones (Stannis, Shireen, Barristan, now Doran, Trystane), so it makes sense that these will happen in the next book. Maybe not, but seems likely. The differences in plot lines between show and book have not been that different that these characters would not die imo.

 

I can see it happening. There is already a slight dissatisfaction with Doran and his inactivity, were his plans to not work out quickly enough then there may be a reaction to get things moving forward. I now don't think he has any sort of extremely clever master plan other than ones speculated on already.

[Nerevanin]

In my opinion the only thing it could spoil was that the wildlings may or may not partake in the aftermatch of the NW betraying Jon, which is something I didn't think about before.

I expected Melisandre to wear some kind of illusion to change her true looks ever since her POV chapter, so this was more like a verification and less a spoiler for me.

oh... and Dany brought to Vaes Dothrak but I think it was expected in case that the Dothraki would be able to sieze her in the books considering she has a dragon on her side.

Other than that nothing imo. Most of the other characters' storylines have been way too changed (in fact, Sansa is in the Vale, Theon with Stannis, Jaime and Brienne in the Riverlands, Myrcella alive...). The Dorne plot doesn't really tell anything imo. In the books Doran is clearly up to something big while in the show it seems like they decided to eliminate the whole Dorne plot after the negative reactions and they probably didn't have enough time from the start to include Doran's book schemes. I personally think that Doran can easily survive the whole ASOIAF and the S6E1 thing was just a way how to deal with Dorne.

[Jon Snow Bengal]

So now that we know Dornes & the Boltons intentions we can speculate the following-

Dorne declares war on KL and the Lannisters.

Tommen will be killed thereby fracturing the Lannister-Tyrell alliance.

The Boltons may join Dorne & send their army. Little finger may align the Vale with Dorne & The Boltons.

The Wildling Army will attack & defeat the Nights Watch (which they will suspect will kill them otherwise without the protection of Jon as Lord Commander). 

Jon (if alive...), Davos & the Wildling Army will march on Winterfell. If Bolton army have left then that would be easily taken but if not... Jon Snow & Sansa will rally the north, Sansa will tell the people of the Vale the truth about Littlefinger & take Winterfell. This leaves the Lannisters without the Boltons as allies. Then onto the Twins... (or Casterly Rock which has been completely forgotten about in the series).

Frey army may have be called to defend KL against Dorne leaving the Twins without defences. Or the Freys may be annihilated by Jon & Sansas Army before they can leave.

Jon may have more encounters with The Others.... May try to negotiate a treaty with the help of Bran...

The Lannisters are now alone against Dorne 

Enter Dany & Ironborn who will decimate the victor (Lannisters or Dorne).

Enter Jon & the Others who will kill Dany & Ironborn [Big awesome battle with Ice Dragons. Bran wargs into Dragons and basically does his thing to help]

Jon becomes King.

Nights King kills Jon.

Nights Kings dies from secret Dragon Glass dagger hidden in Iron throne (by Arya with Sams help).

Arya becomes Queen.

Gendry finally reaches Kings Landing.....

The End.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JonSnowed]

I agree I can see the Sand Snakes potentially being the ones to kill Tommen now.

[marsyao]

On 4/25/2016 at 2:30 AM, Attitude said:

So, what in your opinion has been spoiled for the books, or what do you think will spoil the books? So far the things that are/ might be spoilers:

- Big hints on Melisandre being (a decendent of) Shiera Seastar. 
- They will try to make Dany a part of the Dosh Khaleen (well, trailer spoiled that already) 
- The killing of Trystane & Doran. Seems possible in the books, but most likely

  Reveal hidden contents

they will join (F)Aegon[\spoiler] 

 

Since I'm know most here are better spotters for certain hints compared to me; What do you guys think?

You are still wonder about that? I mean, dude, seriously?

[Masha]

 

6 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

Keep in mind, GRRM said himself that there are people who die in the show that remain alive throughout the entire ASOIAF series.

So at this point, nothing the show does can be taken literally with the books any longer.  They are two separate entities doing their own thing.

I don't remember that GRRM said "throughout the entire ASOIAF series" he only said they were alive as of Winds of Winter book, and not even implied that they stay alive throughout that book. I am assuming to many characters that died on the show will die before end of TWOW such as Stannis, his daughter/wife, Doran/Arianne (instead of Trystane who is a little kid in a books), Myrcella, and khal Jhoqo.

3 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

I agree I can see the Sand Snakes potentially being the ones to kill Tommen now.

It looks like that unless they want to completely drop Dorne connection in the show. Now both in the books and in the show there are Sand Snakes in the Kings Landing.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

15 hours ago, hallam said:

Sheesh, all these people yelling that the PRODUCERS GOT IT WRONG because the plot didn't work out the way they hoped. 

Shireen burns, get over it. It wasn't a surprise in the show because the books made it obvious that is where Stannis was headed.

I can't see what the whining about Dorne is all about. Dorne hasn't been on the screen for more than about 30 minutes total. And they iced one of Cersei's kids. People whined about the poison scene with Bronn then we saw the point with Myrcella's death. It was the same at the start of season 5 when people were complaining about the gay sex scene with Loras. The scene that the entire High Sparrow plot is hinged on.

I like the Dorne bits, they are stunning visually and they are establishing the sand snakes as a major threat to the Lannisters. And they have to be busy with something or else they might actually start taking notice of the white walker threat.

The show Sansa plot has actually got to an interesting juncture. Sansa has actually taken charge of something. After being a pawn in other people's schemes, she is now expected to stand on her own feet and to lead. GRRM is surely going to get there eventually. But the show has got us there quicker. And it isn't the travesty that people imagine when you understand that Sansa was originally going to have that plot line in the books and  GRRM introduced fake Arya as an afterthought because he couldn't move the characters about fast enough.

Um, no. The Joffrey that Sansa was going to marry wasn't a psycho like Ramsay just an unpleasant person.  And I don't think he was planning for outline Joffrey to rape and torture her 

GRRM just completely changed his plans 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Masha said:

 

I don't remember that GRRM said "throughout the entire ASOIAF series" he only said they were alive as of Winds of Winter book, and not even implied that they stay alive throughout that book. I am assuming to many characters that died on the show will die before end of TWOW such as Stannis, his daughter/wife, Doran/Arianne (instead of Trystane who is a little kid in a books), Myrcella, and khal Jhoqo.

It looks like that unless they want to completely drop Dorne connection in the show. Now both in the books and in the show there are Sand Snakes in the Kings Landing.

No he explicitly said that there are characters that the show has killed off that will be alive at the end of the story.

GRRM:

Just consider. Mago, Irri, Rakharo, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, Pyp, Grenn, Ser Barristan Selmy, Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen, Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis are all dead in the show, alive in the books. Some of them will die in the books as well, yes... but not all of them, and some may die at different times in different ways. 

And this is what D & D said:

 

“People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled – and it’s really not true,” Benioff told EW. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that – and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”

[Sand11751]

Nothing was spoiled this season; Arya / Mercy's killing of kingsguard was last season. As far as I'm concerned, the show exists in an alternate reality.

[Masha]

58 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

No he explicitly said that there are characters that the show has killed off that will be alive at the end of the story.

GRRM:

Just consider. Mago, Irri, Rakharo, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, Pyp, Grenn, Ser Barristan Selmy, Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen, Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis are all dead in the show, alive in the books. Some of them will die in the books as well, yes... but not all of them, and some may die at different times in different ways. 

And this is what D & D said:

 

“People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled – and it’s really not true,” Benioff told EW. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that – and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”

Lets see, I would assume most if not all of these: Mago, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Barristan Selmy, Shireen, Stannis, Myrcella, Mance Rayder will die in this book. Irri and Rakharo are such minor characters that I don't care and don't consider it making it a huge difference. Pyp and Grenn might survive till the Others attack.

Mago - Dany swore revenge on him - so he will die, Xaro/Selmy are in great danger of both plague and Battle of Fire which the 2 dragons would soon join so I doubt both will survive, Shireen - confirmed will die in this book, I doubt Stannis will survive her long. Myrcella will die too perhaps not in the same way or order (Tommen might beat her in the books) but she will die, Mance probably will die if Ramsey's letter is to be believed.

I doubt that more than 10% of people you mentioned will survive till the end of the story and none of the survivors would be prominent characters just extremely minor ones like Pyat Pree, Irri, etc

[three-eyed monkey]

I haven't been a regular show watcher since midway through season 2, but i tuned in on Sunday to gauge how spoilery this season might be. To be honest, I don't think it is going to spoil much. It has diverged from the books so much, Brienne in Winterfell, Davos in Castle Black, Jaime in Kings Landing, etc., and so many of the books little mysteries aren't even touched upon in the show. I'm certainly optimistic that the book won't be spoiled.

[The Dames do Moan]

20 hours ago, hallam said:

Sheesh, all these people yelling that the PRODUCERS GOT IT WRONG because the plot didn't work out the way they hoped. 

Thank you. WARNING: upcoming rant please move forward if you don't agree with the quote.

I feel like we're going to get a lot of... OMG, D&D don't know shit and I can't stand this fan-fiction they are putting just because they don't like it. I noticed it a lot with Jaime. People going "OMG, Jaime looks like he is going back into kingslayer mode. What terrible writing after GRRM was making him more relatable." For all we know GRRM is giving Jaime a redemption arc so we can see him digress back into kingslayer mode because of events around him. Maybe not, but we simply don't know yet.

Last year we got the "I can't believe they aren't including the riverlands and iron island plots. They just don't get what's going on" oh... Wait, what's happening now?

You know if aDwD hadn't come out yet people would be saying "freaking D&D ruining the story and killing Jon off. There is no way GRRM would do that. They are just idiots and don't comprehend the story."

[hallam]

39 minutes ago, The Dames do Moan said:

Thank you. WARNING: upcoming rant please move forward if you don't agree with the quote.

I feel like we're going to get a lot of... OMG, D&D don't know shit and I can't stand this fan-fiction they are putting just because they don't like it. I noticed it a lot with Jaime. People going "OMG, Jaime looks like he is going back into kingslayer mode. What terrible writing after GRRM was making him more relatable." For all we know GRRM is giving Jaime a redemption arc so we can see him digress back into kingslayer mode because of events around him. Maybe not, but we simply don't know yet.

Last year we got the "I can't believe they aren't including the riverlands and iron island plots. They just don't get what's going on" oh... Wait, what's happening now?

You know if aDwD hadn't come out yet people would be saying "freaking D&D ruining the story and killing Jon off. There is no way GRRM would do that. They are just idiots and don't comprehend the story."

Try telling people that bastards can't inherit and R+L=J is so obvious it can't possibly be right. 'Fanfic'.

People are complaining that Mel took the red Jewel off in an earlier scene, CONTINUITY ERROR! Only there is absolutely no reason to connect the red jewel function in the show to the book where it was in any case serving a totally different purpose for a totally different spell

What the scene proves is that spells can alter appearance. Oh well, that really puts the nail in the coffin of R+L=J. I think Jon looks Stark because of a blood magic spell cast by Lyanna. 

But oh no, when D&D reveal that these folk were wrong, wrong wrongety wrong with a side order of wrong sauce and fries, they will be squeaking that D&D changed it.

[The Dames do Moan]

30 minutes ago, hallam said:

Try telling people that bastards can't inherit and R+L=J is so obvious it can't possibly be right. 'Fanfic'.

People are complaining that Mel took the red Jewel off in an earlier scene, CONTINUITY ERROR! Only there is absolutely no reason to connect the red jewel function in the show to the book where it was in any case serving a totally different purpose for a totally different spell

What the scene proves is that spells can alter appearance. Oh well, that really puts the nail in the coffin of R+L=J. I think Jon looks Stark because of a blood magic spell cast by Lyanna. 

But oh no, when D&D reveal that these folk were wrong, wrong wrongety wrong with a side order of wrong sauce and fries, they will be squeaking that D&D changed it.

Personally I like the challenge to D&D saying they were specifically told by GRRM that Melisandre was "several centuries old." Because that would obviously rule out the BR+SS. I've seen a lot of "D&D probably just made that up and didn't actually have a convo with him Or they just just don't understand what GRRM says and have taken it completely wrong."

If they reveal R+L=J the. It will be "they just oversimplified it because they couldn't adapt the real version onto screen or introduce other characters." If they reveal something other than R+L=J "They just wanted to oversimplify it and not introduce the whole Rhaegar thing or They specifically wanted to make fanfic different from the books even though we know GRRM confirmed it is R+L=J to them."   

Really when things are shown that haven't been in the books, people will say they don't think they will be in the books if they don't line up with their theory's. If they do then it will be canon that it's in the book. 

There literally won't be one thing all season and possibly next season that people agree is a spoiler.

 

[Miley the Monstrous]

Something that is...fairly obvious, but oh what the hell, I'll say it anyway: the fact that Jon is dead dead, and not only wounded, because I've seen a lot of people arguing for the latter. 

[NoneofYourBiz]

The fact that the Dorne and Aegon plots have little to no impact on the end game.

[The Dames do Moan]

6 hours ago, DebL66 said:

The fact that the Dorne and Aegon plots have little to no impact on the end game.

That Victarion has no impact to the end game.