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Who got shafted worse? Doran Martell or Stannis Baratheon


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17 hours ago, sifth said:

Doran did nothing on the show, kind of like how he is in the books. The only thing we missed out on where seeing all of his stupid plans blow up in his face. I really don't understand how some people consider this guy wise for doing nothing, but to each there own I suppose.

I think people were expecting big things but at least in the show......he was useless.

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18 hours ago, sifth said:

Doran did nothing on the show, kind of like how he is in the books. The only thing we missed out on where seeing all of his stupid plans blow up in his face. I really don't understand how some people consider this guy wise for doing nothing, but to each there own I suppose.

I'm curious, what was he supposed to do after the Rebellion? :)  Fight a war alone against all of Westeros?? Well, that is an option, I mean Dorne has done it before right? Wrong. A big part of the Dornish army died at the Trident with Prince Llewelyn Martell, so how was supposed the weakest kingdom in Westeros fight all the others?? with its army gone?? He literally had no options, he needed time to recover, to reform his army... that takes time at least 5 years. And revenge is not enough, he needed a claimant to the throne... It's not that he did nothing, it's that he didn't have any options. He could have assassinated Tywin, sure... but he says it himself, he wants to see him suffer, death is too easy.

Having said this, I still think Stannis had it worse in the show, because we saw glimpses of book Stannis. Each season had some amazing scenes with Dillane, making us hope we could get an amazing story. With Doran... we didn't get him at all, they should have taken the Talysa route and renamed him.

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Both, but in terms of how they were portrayed in the show compared to the books I would say Stannis got completely screwed. They had him kill his daughter right after they had a good scene where he talked about how he did everything he could to save here when she was little. Complete 180, and not to mention it is not possible for Stannis to burn her in the books considering they are 100s of miles away from each other with a blizzard separating them. 

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1 hour ago, Bayard said:

I'm curious, what was he supposed to do after the Rebellion? :)  Fight a war alone against all of Westeros?? Well, that is an option, I mean Dorne has done it before right? Wrong. A big part of the Dornish army died at the Trident with Prince Llewelyn Martell, so how was supposed the weakest kingdom in Westeros fight all the others?? with its army gone?? He literally had no options, he needed time to recover, to reform his army... that takes time at least 5 years. And revenge is not enough, he needed a claimant to the throne... It's not that he did nothing, it's that he didn't have any options. He could have assassinated Tywin, sure... but he says it himself, he wants to see him suffer, death is too easy.

Having said this, I still think Stannis had it worse in the show, because we saw glimpses of book Stannis. Each season had some amazing scenes with Dillane, making us hope we could get an amazing story. With Doran... we didn't get him at all, they should have taken the Talysa route and renamed him.

I totally agree with your sentiment but not your conclusion. Doran got it worse in the show. He was the embodiment of a GoT player. Physically powerless, but uses the long game to exact his revenge. He was Littlefinger if Littlefinger had any actual power. I think he was killed off in the show because D&D knew they had butchered the storyline badly without any link to Dany. 

 

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Let me add this - Kevan and Trystane should also make that list. Kevan for obvious reasons - a seasoned military commander played by a guy who looks like he couldn't take down Pycell. 

What would have been GREAT would be to have Trystane give the talk to the Sand Snakes that Doran gave in the book. That would have been much cooler, because Trystane could basically say "you ding dongs don't have any idea what P Diddy has up his sleeve. He is planning revenge." Then they would realize how stupid it was for them to have killed Doran. And all they needed was a plausible back story - like he has people in Mereen waiting to get Dany's act together. 

Bummer. 

 

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Stannis got shafted worse because they ruined his character before killing him. Show Doran was kind of bland, but nothing outrageous. Of course, he got killed by the show worst characters, but hey, I got a laugh of him giving much more of a fight to Ellaria than Areo gave to Bad Pussy (and that knife didn't seem long enough to pierce his skin).

Alas, they are both gone and no bad writing can harm them anymore!
 

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2 hours ago, thegreenmanalishi83 said:

I think people were expecting big things but at least in the show......he was useless.

The guy planned to marry his children to the Targ's yet just let them wander around Essos for nearly 14 years, without protection from all sorts people who could possibly kill them. I have no idea how this guy can be shocked that Viserys was killed. No worries though, he had a back up plan to send Quentyn to marry Danny, that's a fool proof plan, there's no way she'd ever turn him down..............well at the very least Quentyn isn't stupid enough to think he can ride a dragon...................dam it. At this point I'd say marring Arianne to Faegon is a bit of a hail marry play for the guy. Twice the guy has allowed the Lannister's to get away with murdering members of his family, which is two times too many, IMO

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On 26/4/2016 at 9:59 AM, The Boastful Knight said:

I'm gonna have to go with Doran. Mainly because I've never been a huge Stannis fan, although what D&D did to him was atrocious, I'll freely admit that anytime. But Doran got way less screentime than Stannis and he did nothing. Literally nothing. They wasted an interesting character and a good actor with him. D&D clearly have no idea what they're doing, they're making it up as they go, and at this point, they don't even care. They never were geniuses, but at least there was a time they somewhat cared about making a good adaptation. The whole butchering Stannis and Doran shows that clearly. They didn't even adress the Dorne scenes in this week's very insightful "Inside the episode" video, because I think they know what a clusterfuck that whole storyline is. I mean there are gaping plotholes left and right that they just can't explain.  

:agree:

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11 hours ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

It has nothing to do with dropping a few lines, and everything to do with failing to convey the characteristics that those lines conveyed about Stannis the character. 

Had they managed to convey it some other way I'd have been fine with it. But what we got was a Stannis that only superficially resemble his book counterpart. 

They worked to convey the more human elements of Stannis with the scenes between him and Shireen. 

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3 hours ago, sifth said:

The guy planned to marry his children to the Targ's yet just let them wander around Essos for nearly 14 years, without protection from all sorts people who could possibly kill them. I have no idea how this guy can be shocked that Viserys was killed. No worries though, he had a back up plan to send Quentyn to marry Danny, that's a fool proof plan, there's no way she'd ever turn him down..............well at the very least Quentyn isn't stupid enough to think he can ride a dragon...................dam it. At this point I'd say marring Arianne to Faegon is a bit of a hail marry play for the guy. Twice the guy has allowed the Lannister's to get away with murdering members of his family, which is two times too many, IMO

How do we know that the very reason that Viserys and Daenerys lived isn't Doran's doing. If Varys told Robert that Doran Martell is hiding the remaining Targs, Doran is a traitor and Dorne burns.

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I definitely think Doran got 'shafted' worse. What was the point of even casting him/bringing him into the show if they were going to make him as insignificant as ornate hilt with out a blade. A chair without a seat. A car without an engine or wheels. Why did they even go to Dorne at all?

Stannis got a raw deal but at least he had a storyline leading up to it. What happened in Dorne was just pretty costumes and pretty girls and shiny swords. 

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4 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

Let me add this - Kevan and Trystane should also make that list. Kevan for obvious reasons - a seasoned military commander played by a guy who looks like he couldn't take down Pycell. 

What would have been GREAT would be to have Trystane give the talk to the Sand Snakes that Doran gave in the book. That would have been much cooler, because Trystane could basically say "you ding dongs don't have any idea what P Diddy has up his sleeve. He is planning revenge." Then they would realize how stupid it was for them to have killed Doran. And all they needed was a plausible back story - like he has people in Mereen waiting to get Dany's act together. 

Bummer. 

 

Kevan is hardly a spring chicken in the books. He's portly, thick-waisted, balding, and deliberately contrasted with the much firmer and formidable looking Tywin.

Also I don't see how Tristane got shafted if he doesn't even appear on the books, so there was no character there to shaft in the first place. 

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Doran got it worse, but by gods almost all the male leaders of the houses are treated as bad/jokes.
Look at mace tyrell as a joke. Stannis got shafted down the idiot train. Tywin was shown to be blind and ass hole. Eddarded got treated well, but eh. Doran got murdered. Eddumure was treated as a stooge. Balon was treated like a fool. We really got no decent house leaders, and this was all treated badly.

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4 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Tell that to Quentyn 

 

Bold, doesn't mean stupid. Plus Quentyn was actually succeeding for a while, but he wasn't paying attention to the other dragon and...............well like I said he was stupid, lol

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I'd say Stannis got it worse. You can argue all day about which character suffered the most ignoble death, but Stannis suffered the character assassination of burning his own daughter. Doran may have died, but at least in the show he stayed true to his character. Those around him however.....

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Stannis got shafted worst beyond any reasonable doubt imaginable. The show destroyed his character to the point that those who don't read the books think he was one of the 'bad guys' on par with Joffrey and Ramsay Bolton.

That's not to take away from the fact that Doran was also royally screwed by D&D. Such a same, I'm a fan of Alexander Siddig and had they stuck closer to his character from the books, he could have done some good things with the character in time to come.

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Doran. I didn't like what they did to Stannis but at least I liked Stannis right up until he sacrificed his daughter. With Doran, I was always waiting that he'd turn into the ruler I knew from the books. They gave him nothing to do and killed him off. I'm angry beyond words.

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