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Did Tywin know Robert hit Cersei?


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I know Tywin isn't all fuzzy about his children, but I can't imagine him being ok with some drunk perv beating the shit out of his golden daughter. Robert publicly cheated on Cersei and embarrassed her every chance he got. IMO, Tywin would not take this lightly. 

What do you guys think? 

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Aerys publicly cheated on Rhaella and plenty of targs fathered bastards.  I think your overestimating the strength of Twin/underestimating the strength of kings.  Ned, Jon Aryn, and Hoster Tully would have backed Roberty in any conflict.  With Robert controlling the Stormlands and Crownlands, that leaves only Dorne and the Iron Isles for Tywin to ally with.  Obviously a loosing proposition.

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Sadly what happens to a man and wife would be their business. I doubt either publicized what happened between closed doors nor do I imagine the few people who were to witness such events (like Ned) would tell others about it.

The fact that Jaime, who lived with them, did not know about it means that Tywin in the Westerlands would have no idea.

The bruise those words had won her had been hard to hide from Jaime

Unless Cersei actively wanted vengeance I don't think there is anything that Tywin would have done if he had found out about it though he may have found other ways to punish Robert for his mistreatment of a Lannister.

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10 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Sadly what happens to a man and wife would be their business. I doubt either publicized what happened between closed doors nor do I imagine the few people who were to witness such events (like Ned) would tell others about it.

The fact that Jaime, who lived with them, did not know about it means that Tywin in the Westerlands would have no idea.

The bruise those words had won her had been hard to hide from Jaime

Unless Cersei actively wanted vengeance I don't think there is anything that Tywin would have done if he had found out about it though he may have found other ways to punish Robert for his mistreatment of a Lannister.

Topic = owned

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Yes, but Tywin seems to be of the opinion, that rules don't apply to the Lannisters.

If he knew, he could start to be difficult with money lending or something. Though I'm not sure if he would. Fifty-fifty.

And Cersei had no business telling him, if she wanted quick vengeance. she would tell Jaime.

And to all fairness, Cersei hit Robert too, she broke his teeth once.
 

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Tywin was in a bit of a tough position.  He was aware of, or at least strongly suspicious of, the twincest.  As an intelligent man, he had to have known that other people besides himself had an equal level of awareness of that possibility.  He would have known that Robert might actually have had suspicions of his own that he did not act on out of convenience's sake.  Pressuring Robert could easily result in a chain of events that resulted in both his favorite children having their heads removed and his family shamed.  I'm sure that colored his decisions regarding Robert's abuses of Cersei.

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I don't think that Tywin would have caused a war for such incident. However the noose was tightening around Robert's B neck. More and more Lannisters were getting close to him and his debt towards CR was getting bigger by its passing day. Robert's fears weren't totally unfounded

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Even if Tywin knew about the physical harm Robert was inflicting on his Cersei, feudal society prevents a lot of direct action. Others have mentioned the debt that was owed to CR. Others have mentioned the Coalition of the North, Vale, Stormlands/Crownlands, and potentially Riverlands that the Lannisters would be facing, not to mention the hostage that would be confined in the Red Keep.

War would not be feasible, economic sanctions would be possible, but if one were wanting to preserve outward appearances, cutting off future loans from CR would give the appearance that all was not well and good in the Kingdom.

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I believe that Tywin and Robert had been dueling with one another for a long long time. Tywin wanted more power, something he got by having his daughter marrying the King. Robert on the other hand wanted a lavish life, which Tywin provided the funds for in exchange for more power (Lancel being appointed as cup bearer, Jamie doing what he wants without being punished). This relationship got more difficult with every passing year. Tywin must have started to fill the strain of bankrolling his king and Robert was getting a bit claustrophobic having so many pesky Lannisters around. Hence why he wanted Eddard to KL as hand of the king (no one is better for the role then daddy in law) and wanted to marry off his son to Eddard's daughter (the North tend to be looked down by the Southerners). 

Returning to the subject I doubt that Tywin would have liked that his daughter has been slapped. He built his legacy by instilling a sense of invincibility around the Lannisters and having his daughter being paraded around with a bruise on her face by a Baratheon doesn't help. Having said, that would have never lead to a war. Tywin knew that a rebellion would have been crushed easily. The Starks, Tullys, Arryns and Baratheons would join against him. Also soon enough someone would whisper in Robert's ear that his children weren't his, which would lead to annulment, the arrest of the twins followed by the marriage between Margaery and Robert. That would mean that the Tyrells would join the loyalists too. 

Having said that, there where two strategies Tywin could use that would hurt Robert greatly without causing a rebellion

a- have him killed (if Cersei can do it....)

b- stop funding his lavish life. That would bring KL in an economical breakdown which would force Robert to humiliate himself at Tywin and come to terms with his lesser (could the release of Jamie from the KG be part of the negotiations?).

Hence I believe that this slap could have been a game changer in Westeros although not in the way people may think

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, dreem24 said:

He will not like it but then again what does he care once Robert dies the king is his grandson... Only the prince is a bastard by his own son and daughter..

He is a bastard, whether Robert lives or dies, it's done deal and Tywin has to work with what he has (and we never learned if he knew). The fact is, after the heirs were old enough Tywin didn't really need to care about Robert's well-being. I think he would be fine with Cersei and Lancel assasinating him, only getting angry that it wasn't done earlier and more discreetly, before the rumors about Cersei and Jaime (discrediting House Lannister) came out. Well, and that nobody prepared Joff how to be a king.

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If Tywin was aware of it, there would not be much that he could do except maybe stop lending money to the crown... Tywin's strenght and influence is often overestimated; before the events of 298 AC, any act against the beloved King Robert was suicidal given how Bob had four of the seven big houses on his pocket and the fact that Dorne and the Iron Islands despised Lannisters... We also have to remember that the Bob-Cersei marriage was the political move that allowed the Lanns to keep face after the war; making a move against the king was not the best idea if he wanted to keep the status quo.

What really surprises me is that Cersei went as far as to hide it from Jaime; was it out of fear or a weird sense of shame? I think that most likely she didn't want Jaime going at Robert who even in 298 AC was hardcore enough to kill the boar that gored him while being drunk as hell and had other six warriors protecting him.

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Even with Bob at his post glorious days, fat as a horse, only armed would jaime avoid getting his neck breaked in half by the much, MUCH stronger Robert (easier and less dangerous would be cersei poisoning him in his sleep)... so no, i don´t believe Tywin or Cersei (using Jaime) would punish the King who gave them power instead of a house cleaning... particulary because of a melee wedding (cersei's words)...

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10 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

What fears?

Robert B was a lousy king who kept piling debt with the Lannisters, Tyrells and the Iron Bank. Soon enough shit would hit fan and those who were loaning the money would either ask for it or at least stop loaning it, causing a rift in the Kingdom. His allies were relatively strong but they had 3 weaknesses

a-      They were honourable. Eddard would have gone to hell and back for Robert but would probably back off at the prospect of fighting the Tyrells because they refuse to let the King squander more of their money

b-      They weren’t very rich themselves

c-       They were growing old. For example Lord Arryn died leaving little sweet Robin at the helm.  That means that if the King needed military help then the Vale would probably be less enthusiastic to help. Tyrion was heir to CR and let’s face it, he’s not a big fan of Cersei or Joffrey.

Things weren’t going to get better in the future, not unless Robert managed to come out with a plan. Think about it. Joffrey wasn’t exactly King material and unlike Robert he didn’t had the luxury to live under Lord Arryn’s roof and alongside Eddard Stark. If he pissed the Northern alliance off then there was a realistic chance of them not coming to his rescue or even turn against him. Therefore there were two near future realistic threats that could happen

a-      His debtors decide not to lend him more money. The situation gets sour, the iron bank finance an expedition. Danny + Dothraki + Golden Company + a horde of mercenaries arrive to Westeros. The Tyrells and Dorne joins them, Lord Tyrion (who is pissed off at his sister and his bankrupted king) decides to remain neutral and voila there’s a civil war

b-      Joffrey becomes king, he pisses off everybody (he’s not very fond of Uncle Tyrion and he also think that the Northern people are a bit meah) and someone with actual military brains (an older Robb Stark?) decide to rebel. An older and more mature Robb would call Uncle Edmure, Cousin Robin and who knows even Renly (someone needs to rule Westeros after) whom in turn would drag the Tyrells and you get the drift.

Both could end up very badly.

TBF I think that Robert was making plans to anticipate that

a-      He appointed Renly as Lord of the Stormlands. Renly was great in diplomacy (that seat would get him closer to a potential great marriage with the Tyrells) + he knew that the boy would be grateful to his brother for such act of generosity

b-      By appeasing the old Lannister without releasing Jamie from his KG duty, Robert was aiming to have Tommen as successor to CR.  I doubt that the kind hearted boy would turn against his father. Actually he would probably forgive all the debt

c-       Sansa and Joffrey marriage which meant stepping into the Northern alliance.

HHowever until all those things happened, Robert's situation was far from safe

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