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Did Tywin know Robert hit Cersei?


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I think Tywin would care that a Baratheon was mistreating a Lannister, not so much that Robert was mistreating Cersei. The family matters more than the individual to him. Even if he did know, I think he would let it slide if it wasn't public knowledge that would shame his house (in his mind anyways). 

I think Tywin does love Cersei, but in his mind she's doing her duty to the family. Also, I don't think Robert was "beating the shit out of" Cersei like the OP suggests. Not trying to defend violence against women, but I don't think it was a constant thing. I don't know about you guys, but I always saw Robert as a good, but flawed man. A different person when he was wasted, which is about all he had to do as king. 

Cersei wouldn't have told anyone because of her "I am just as good as a man" complex. I think she would rather suffer silently than go crying to the men in her life for help. Plus she had to know that if she ever told Jaime he would fly off the handle and do something stupid. 

I don't think armies and allies would ever come into the discussion unless Robert did something truly terrible, like kill her with witnesses. 

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11 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

Cersei wouldn't have told anyone because of her "I am just as good as a man" complex. I think she would rather suffer silently than go crying to the men in her life for help. Plus she had to know that if she ever told Jaime he would fly off the handle and do something stupid.

That's true.

And in the end of the day Cersei really didn't need her daddy or brother to get back at Robert.
 

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On 26/4/2016 at 0:05 AM, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Sadly what happens to a man and wife would be their business. I doubt either publicized what happened between closed doors nor do I imagine the few people who were to witness such events (like Ned) would tell others about it.

The fact that Jaime, who lived with them, did not know about it means that Tywin in the Westerlands would have no idea.

The bruise those words had won her had been hard to hide from Jaime

Unless Cersei actively wanted vengeance I don't think there is anything that Tywin would have done if he had found out about it though he may have found other ways to punish Robert for his mistreatment of a Lannister.

 

Not much to add to that. Robert, sadly, could do what he wanted with his wife. And Cercei was certainly too proud to go tell daddy.

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On 27/04/2016 at 1:12 AM, Tianzi said:

</snip>

And to all fairness, Cersei hit Robert too, she broke his teeth once.

'to all fairness' are you referring to:

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"Robert ignored him [Joffrey w.]. He would have beat him if I’d allowed it. That brute you made me marry once hit the boy so hard he knocked out two of his baby teeth, over some mischief with a cat. I told him I’d kill him in his sleep if he ever did it again, and he never did, but sometimes he would say things …”
“It appears things needed to be said.” Lord Tywin waved two fingers at her, a brusque dismissal. “Go.”

Have to say, I don't think Cersei making a verbal threat to Robert, after Robert bashes the teeth out of five year old Joffrey's mouth, could be fairly characterised as breaking Robert's teeth.

The only reference I could find to Robert Baratheon's teeth in the book, implies they were just fine:

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His smile was a flash of white teeth in the thicket of the huge black beard.

(AGoT, Ch.04 Eddard I)

Also, I think the quote about Robert's assault on Joffrey shows us how far Lord Tywin was willing to overlook Robert's violence, posthumously at least. Even against his own grandson. Lord Tywin clearly blames Cersei for indulging the boy, not Robert for assaulting him. Given his drathers, he blames Cersei for Robert's violence...as you have shown, it is easily done.

Although, I don't think he really liked his son-in-law. In fact, I think maybe one of the reasons why Tywin was at Casterley Rock rather than Robert's court was because he despised Robert. That Robert set off for Winterfell rather than asking Tywin to be his hand, could be seen as a slight.

It seems likely too, that Tywin was aware of Robert's lusty nature. Just as Edric's conception seemed to be tailor-made to mock Stannis' union with the Florents, the bastard twins at Casterly Rock are as likely to have left Tywin seething with indignation as Cersei. The fact that Robert could hardly have sired twins just to insult his prudish host, does not change the fact that Robert was fond of doing stuff to women in the dark of night and claiming that he was to drunk to know what he was doing, in the cold hard light of day.

Robert was usually careful not to hit Cersei where the bruises showed

Quote

Ned touched her cheek gently. “Has he done this before?”
“Once or twice.” She shied away from his hand. “Never on the face before. Jaime would have killed him, even if it meant his own life.”

(AGoT, Ch.45 Eddard XII)

However, it is very probable that Tywin was occasionally the witness to unseemly scenes of marital discord like the very public one that Sansa saw:

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the king on his feet, red of face, reeling. He had a goblet of wine in one hand, and he was drunk as a man could be. “You do not tell me what to do, woman,” he screamed at Queen Cersei. “I am king here, do you understand? I rule here, and if I say that I will fight tomorrow, I will fight!”

(AGoT, Ch.29 Sansa II)

In fact, those twins were probably sired on a night like that.

Even if Tywin suspected his daughter was being abused by the King, I doubt he would let it cloud his judgement, especially if it meant relinquishing an honour or being a public scandal, for instance, sheltering his daughter if she fled her husband, or refusing him access to her at Casterly Rock. More likely, he would insist on his daughter being seen at the King's side, doing what she could to shore up the Lannister influence.

Tywin clearly doesn't need to lecture Cersei on this point - she has got jobs for her cousins at court, and in fact, has gained a lot of her influence over Robert by shaming him for his weaknesses. Robert's 'tell' of guzzling wine compulsively before doing dirty deeds he is ashamed of (note that he is drinking even when he orders the assassination of newly pregnant Daenarys, and note also his rage when Ned shames him with “I thought you a better man than this, Robert. I thought we had made a nobler king.”(AGoT, Ch.33 Eddard VIII)). 

The conflict between Robert's wish to be a just and noble King, and those other dark wishes he doesn't want to acknowledge the existence of,  including the desire to indulge his prodigious physical strength to commit gendered violence (especially against his non-Lyanna wife),  ensures that Cersei always has a recent outrage that he ought to be ashamed of, and therefore gets things done when Tywin wants her to get another cousin appointed to a position at court, or to take SweetRobin to Casterly Rock, or whatever.

If Robert's violence against Cersei was put to Tywin as a choice between his daughter's well-being and her ability to influence the King, I'm not sure where he would stand.

After all, Robet didn't kill her, or her progeny (and while Joffrey, the only one that we know Robert actually hit, suffers from the same dark desire to hurt the object of his lust, the same love of sadistic violence against animals, the same rage and fear that people will think him weak or pathetic, as Robert did, Tywin blames Cersei for that.) Maybe, as long as there is no nasty rumours or public scandal, Tywin's usual attitude of giving whatever it takes for the sake of the family,  would win out over his only daughter's safety. As it is, he has plausible deniability

When it comes to the rapes Cersei experienced when Robert was attempting to sire a legitimate heir, I think Tywin would have come down squarely on Robert's side, and he would also be likely to rationalise Robert's infidelity as Eddard did:

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in the end it mattered little whether the king had one bastard or a hundred. Law and custom gave the baseborn few rights... none of them could threaten Robert’s trueborn children

(AGoT, Ch.30 Eddard VII)

When he was wrapping up the war of five kings, Tywin did not hesitate when the opportunity to marry Cersei off to a Tyrell presented itself, and how she felt about it made no matter to him:

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“So long as you remain unwed, you allow Stannis to spread his disgusting slander,” Lord Tywin told his daughter. “You must have a new husband in your bed, to father children on you.”
“Three children is quite sufficient. I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, not a brood mare! The Queen Regent!”
“You are my daughter, and will do as I command.”

(ASoS, Ch.19 Tyrion III)

I think Tywin was overreaching his power a little here - he lost guardianship of Cersei when Robert put the Baratheon cloak over her shoulders, now she is the Queen Regent, and he is her Hand. Still, it is clear that he had no greater regard for her feelings when he was her guardian, when he arranged her marriage to Robert, as we can see from her reaction to this new proposal:

Quote

“No. Not again."

(ASoS, Ch.19 Tyrion III)

I can't help but suppose that if Tywin had any thoughts on the matter in the first couple of years of Cersei's marriage, before Joffrey was born, it would be along the lines that her husband wasn't raping her enough. His concern would have been, as it was in the Tyrion/Sansa match, to secure an heir and spare of Lannister blood, and if he had any feelings, they would probably be fury with Cersei for failing to seduce her husband at every opportunity, rather than at Robert for attempting his Kingly duty.

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19 minutes ago, Walda said:

'to all fairness' are you referring to:

No, I'm referring to a passage when Cersei hits Robert with a wine cup or an ale horn when he annoys her with drinking. I can't locate it right now, maybe someone else remembers.

And I don't aim to defend Robert here. I'm just saying that Cersei may be ineffectual in many other areas, but in her marriage she was able to give as good as she got:

- Robert cheated, she cheated

- Robert abused and humiliated her, she abused and humiliated him

- well, she didn't marital-rape him back, but terminated her pregnancy with him and raised three bastard children as his heirs under his nose

- he would execute her if he ever found out, but she killed him first.

I won't get into 'who started it' and I think that they were both terrible people, but it's indisputable that the power lied with Robert and he could do his stuff much more openly, while her would have counted as treason. With such a disadvantage, I would say, if I can word it that way, that she did well against him.

39 minutes ago, Walda said:

Robert was usually careful not to hit Cersei where the bruises showed

Come to think of it, that's probably where Tywin would have been really concerned: if abuse of a Lannister became public. I agree that he wouldn't care about marital rapes, though I also think that as soon as those bore heirs (or it seemed so), he wouldn't also care about Cersei organizing Robert's assassination (as long as she did it discreetly). It really didn't seem like anyone except Ned valued Robert too much and had Joff not been raised to a little shit he was, the power shift could go relatively peacefully.
 

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Robert's womanizing and the failure of his wedding were surely known to Twyin but I doubt he cared. Even if he knew Robert hit Cersei he couldn't do anything.Robert had North,Riverlands,Vale,Stormlands supporting him and he could have Jaime,Cersei and her children as hostages. Cersei probably hid her bruises from everybody and pretended to be the loyal wife, so as not to be a suspect fot Robert's death.

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On 4/28/2016 at 4:59 AM, Lord Vance II said:

Plus she had to know that if she ever told Jaime he would fly off the handle and do something stupid. 

Not.  Jaime must have known.  He certainly knew that Robert forced her sexually.  He didn't do anything because she didn't want him to.

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