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Trial by Seven: 7 v 1?


dsug

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Cersei has chosen trial by combat to settle the charges of regicide, incest, and treason the Faith has placed against her. Her champion is Ser Robert Strong. A popular theory (Cleganebowl notwithstanding) is that the Queen's trial may be end up being a trial by seven. Rather than a traditional 1 v 1 fight, seven champions from both sides fight it out, in order to honor the gods more thoroughly. 

On the wiki, it says if the accused cannot find seven champions, they are guilty by default. If this were to happen, could Cersei scrape together six other schmucks to fight for her? Or...could the High Sparrow tweak the rules? 

I could see him making it Ser Robert vs Seven Faith militant, if he's really out for blood. Being that he's the High Septon, and the accuser, he can pretty much do whatever he wants. Would he ever consider doing this? It would certainly be unprecedented in Westerosi history, but so is arresting the Queen and making her do a penance walk through her own city. 

thoughts? :)

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16 minutes ago, dsug said:

Cersei has chosen trial by combat to settle the charges of regicide, incest, and treason the Faith has placed against her. Her champion is Ser Robert Strong. A popular theory (Cleganebowl notwithstanding) is that the Queen's trial may be end up being a trial by seven. Rather than a traditional 1 v 1 fight, seven champions from both sides fight it out, in order to honor the gods more thoroughly. 

On the wiki, it says if the accused cannot find seven champions, they are guilty by default. If this were to happen, could Cersei scrape together six other schmucks to fight for her? Or...could the High Sparrow tweak the rules? 

I could see him making it Ser Robert vs Seven Faith militant, if he's really out for blood. Being that he's the High Septon, and the accuser, he can pretty much do whatever he wants. Would he ever consider doing this? It would certainly be unprecedented in Westerosi history, but so is arresting the Queen and making her do a penance walk through her own city. 

thoughts? :)

Cersei's a tad short of 7 KG with the Kettleblacks in the black cells but I'm sure she could whip up enough.  I don't think however that it'll come to that.  Cersei's trial is likely to go her way, doubt very seriously that Ser Strong loses his first 1v1.  It's Margaery's trial that looks more promising...

 

The Edit feature for mobile devices doesn't seem to accept my changes.

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9 minutes ago, Ser Knute said:

Cersei's a tad short of 7 KG with the Kettleblacks in the black cells but I'm sure she could whip up enough.  I don't think however that it'll come to that.  Cersei's trial is likely to go her way, doubt very seriously that Ser Strong loses his first 1v1.  It's Margaery's trial that looks more promising...

 

The Edit feature for mobile devices doesn't seem to accept my changes.

Yeah this site doesn't agree with my iPhone either :P

but yeah I get what you mean. Since Cersei is a queen, she can only be represented by a Kingsguard. And she'd need all seven, which is literally impossible. 

But idk, I could see the High Sparrow pulling some shit on Cersei like that. Cersei may off-handedly boast that "Ser Robert has the strength of ten men" or something like that, and the High Sparrow could reply with "well then surely he can face seven." I dunno. Just spitballing, but I think it's a possibility lol. 

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6 minutes ago, dsug said:

Yeah this site doesn't agree with my iPhone either :P

but yeah I get what you mean. Since Cersei is a queen, she can only be represented by a Kingsguard. And she'd need all seven, which is literally impossible. 

But idk, I could see the High Sparrow pulling some shit on Cersei like that. Cersei may off-handedly boast that "Ser Robert has the strength of ten men" or something like that, and the High Sparrow could reply with "well then surely he can face seven." I dunno. Just spitballing, but I think it's a possibility lol. 

Oh for sure, it'd be cool to see.  I'd have to go back to the novellas and see what precipitated the 7v7 with Dunk.  He struck a blood royal if memory serves... but the rest of the details that morphed his trial into the 7v7 I'm fuzzy on.

Eventually Ser Strong has to meet his match, I wouldn't want to see him just be overwhelmed with numbers... that'd be too smart!  We need some chivalry and plain old ballsiness from one guy!

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42 minutes ago, Ser Knute said:

Eventually Ser Strong has to meet his match, I wouldn't want to see him just be overwhelmed with numbers... that'd be too smart!  We need some chivalry and plain old ballsiness from one guy!

Let's see him go 1 on 1 with Wun Wun.

 

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Maybe Robert Strong will have to fight 7 champions of the Faith in succession. Don't think it will be any problem for him, particularly when whoever is last knocks his head off and he keeps fighting.

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15 hours ago, Ser Knute said:

Oh for sure, it'd be cool to see.  I'd have to go back to the novellas and see what precipitated the 7v7 with Dunk.  He struck a blood royal if memory serves... but the rest of the details that morphed his trial into the 7v7 I'm fuzzy on.

Aerion demanded a Trial by Seven, in theory because he wanted to allow his brother to fight with him as he considered Prince Daeron to have first claim to Dunk's blood, but in reality almost certainly because he was afraid he'd be beaten.

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1 hour ago, Maester of Valyria said:

Aerion demanded a Trial by Seven, in theory because he wanted to allow his brother to fight with him as he considered Prince Daeron to have first claim to Dunk's blood, but in reality almost certainly because he was afraid he'd be beaten.

I always saw his demand of the 7 as a dick move to make his brother look bad. The way he acts and talks gave me that impression. I dont remember the exact quote but it came off as a subtle f you to Daeron. Another thing I think is that Aerion is too insane to be afraid, he thinks himself a dragon after all

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One of the charges that will be defended by Cersei's trial is that her children were bastards born of incest...

Quote

He nodded. "Last of all, and worst of all, there are some who say your children were not fathered by King Robert, that they are bastards born of incest and adultery."

 

"Stannis says that," Cersei said at once. "A lie, a lie, a palpable lie. Stannis wants the Iron Throne for himself, but his brother's children stand in his way, so he must needs claim that they are not his brother's. That filthy letter there is no shred of truth to it. I deny it."

 

The High Septon placed both hands flat upon the table and pushed himself to his feet. "Good. Lord Stannis has turned from the truth of the Seven to worship a red demon, and his false faith has no place in these Seven Kingdoms."

 

That was almost reassuring. Cersei nodded. "Even so," His High Holiness went on, "these are terrible charges, and the realm must know the truth of them. If Your Grace has told it true, no doubt a trial will prove your innocence."

 

A trial, still. "I have confessed"

Cersei I, Dance

If Cersei loses her trial, Tommen will lose his crown and Stannis will be seen as Robert's true heir. The Faith would have to fight his claim, much like Aeron is fighting Euron and the Church fought Henry VIII & Elizabeth I.

So, if the Faith throws anyone against Robert Strong, he will be a sacrifice, since the Faith does not want to win. Poor Lancel...

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8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

One of the charges that will be defended by Cersei's trial is that her children were bastards born of incest...

Cersei I, Dance

If Cersei loses her trial, Tommen will lose his crown and Stannis will be seen as Robert's true heir. The Faith would have to fight his claim, much like Aeron is fighting Euron and the Church fought Henry VIII & Elizabeth I.

So, if the Faith throws anyone against Robert Strong, he will be a sacrifice, since the Faith does not want to win. Poor Lancel...

thats assuming the HS is not a fanatic. Ive seen that argument, but im not convinced he is playing in Cerseis favor. If the HS were just a player wanting to advance the power of the Faith, then he is a natural ally of the current regime is he not? i mean both Euron, and Stannis are trouble for the Faith of the Seven. Why be enemies with the lannisters at all? Why give any more credit to the accusations? Why take both queens prisoners?
Or maybe the time is ripe to extract concessions from the IT, like he did in AFFC with the faith militant..yet the HS never makes a demand.

IMHO he is behaving as a fanatic. The gods will provide for the answers. its his job to be fair in the respective trials. and if they are trials by combat, then the gods will decide the result.

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

So Lancel wins, Cersei is executed. Lancel the kinslayer. Cersei wins, Lancel dies. Cersei the kinslayer.

The fanatical High Septon is not going to create a situation where kinslaying must occur.

If death in a trial by combat is not considered murder (As Doran thinks) it shouldnt be considered kinslaying.

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19 hours ago, GoldhandtheJust said:

I always saw his demand of the 7 as a dick move to make his brother look bad. The way he acts and talks gave me that impression. I dont remember the exact quote but it came off as a subtle f you to Daeron. Another thing I think is that Aerion is too insane to be afraid, he thinks himself a dragon after all

Different interpretations I suppose? I always saw Aerion as being both insane and cowardly, a bit like Viserys.

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My own opinion is that Robert Strong either never makes it to Cersei's trial or has been weakened to the extent that he's helpless. How? Tyene Sand figures out that he's UnGregor and finishes the job Oberyn started by administering a poison that even Qyburn can't counteract. This may be with the connivance of the High Sparrow, if she informs him of Robert Strong's real identity, so that he considers RS an abomination to be extirpated by whatever means.

Anyhow, a trial by 7 seems really unlikely. Reasons for either side insisting on one are pretty weak, mostly to justify a wish for it to happen because is sounds cool.

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3 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said:

Different interpretations I suppose? I always saw Aerion as being both insane and cowardly, a bit like Viserys.

And for a third take on the matter, I read it as Aerion knowing Dunk probably couldn't find six champions and wanting to force him to grovel for mercy.

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14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Aerion was a whacko, but cowardly? 

Typical bully: acts all tough when he's holding all the cards, but take away his support and introduce the possibility that he might actually get hurt and he goes weak at the knees. Viserys is a good example.

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