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You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids


James Steller

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So, I will answer this with my Ned-Hat on and not my Faera-Hat.

I believe Ned would have probably sought to keep most – if not all – of his kids in the North, with maybe only the girls marrying into Southern families and even then, only traditional Stark allies located in the Vale and Riverlands. He is not an overly ambitious man and saw the big-scale alliances of the past tear his family apart and bottlenose the Stark family to only two survivors – of which, only one married. So, Ned would have mostly picked men and women from his principle houses.
 

Robb

Robb is the most eligible bachelor in the North and every one of his bannermen are chucking their maiden daughters into the limelight in the hopes that Ned might remember them come betrothal time. The Starks seem happy to marry daughters of any of their principle bannermen regardless of location – they are not fussy. Ned would probably pick a daughter from one of his principle houses who are “due” a Lady of Winterfell since it has been a couple of generations now since a bannerman got a look in.

Of the named choices, either Wynafryd or Wylla Manderly would be where my money is. Marriage with the Manderlys had occurred quite a few times and Wyman is willing to do a lot off his own back in service to House Stark. It also gives the Starks a renewed, close tie to White Harbour, which always a good thing. I suspect Wylla would be picked over Wynafryd as, presently, unless there is a younger brother Manderly we haven’t seen yet, she needs to remain in White Habour as heir. However, I think Wynafryd makes a better match for Robb if at all possible based on her personality. I also see Catelyn liking the idea of a Manderly girl because they’re a prosperous family that follows the Faith of the Seven. Plus, as Manderlys, they are likely to be nice, plump, curvy girls with big hips – which we know is a big tick for Catelyn when it comes to wives for her male relatives!

A Mormont girl might be a wildcard choice but they might be a little too low in the pecking order. They control Bear Island but they seem happy doing their own thing. Dacey Mormont is not an option as she is indisputably the heir to Bear Island but her younger sisters Lyra, Jorelle “Jory” or Lyanna could be considered. Alysane has children already… so, I don’t think Ned or Cat would be having any of that.

We also can’t rule out Meera Reed. The Reeds might not be rich but they are a principle house and it seems crannog-women have made nice mistresses for Starks but no marriage in recent history, so they might be due one. The history Howland and Ned add a personal touch as well, meaning Ned might have had in his mind a desire to marry at least one of his kids to one of Howland’s. It would also reinforce the North as a united front since the other Northern lords seem to have “doubts” about the crannogmen’s reliability – marriage between the families would ensure this bond between Ned and Howland survives into the next generation. Cat might have a problem with both the huntress’s tomboyish qualities as well as her slender frame; one can almost imagine her thinking, “Too skinny – not good for bearing sons!” Though she’s a sweet girl who is good with difficult children, so there is that…

Honestly, I can’t believe Ned didn’t nab Alys Karstark for Robb when he had the chance. It would have worked so well with his plans for the Gift and we know Rickard wanted the match yet he ended up with the Hornwood match instead. Makes me wonder if Ned something in mind already for Robb… though I can’t think what!

Either way, if Ned had got in there before the Hornwoods, Alys would be a good pick – right up there with Wynafryd or Wylla Manderly.
 

The Other Boys

Now for the younger lads: Ned seems to have wanted both Bran and Rickon to one day serve as Robb’s bannermen. This indicates that his long-term plans for his two spares were to keep them in the North. It is possible that he intended for them (and maybe even Jon) to be among the new masters or lords that Ned, Benjen and Jeor Mormont were planning to set up on the Gift. For this reason, Ned would probably not only want Northern brides for all of his sons but also want Bran and Rickon’s marriages to get other Northern houses behind the idea itself.

My best guess: a daughter from one of the Mountain clans (Most likely the Flints) for one lad and an Umber girl for the other, the Northernmost families who have some very strong feelings about wildlings.

We should also touch on Theon Greyjoy. I firmly believe that Ned would have taken it upon himself to find him a good Northern wife with a loyal Stark bannerman… ideally on the eastern coast. There would have come a time when Theon would presumably have had to take his seat on the Iron Isles once Balon died and the need for a hostage was moot. Perhaps Ned would have married him to one of his own daughters, more likely Arya (I think) but whether he would have risked it is another matter. Seems more likely he would have found a second daughter of a northern vassal house that could be viewed as of a suitable rank to marry the heir to the Iron Islands.

Now, for the elephant in the room: Jon Snow.

I do not think that Ned would have wanted Jon joining the Night’s Watch under normal circumstances, especially if it had got to this stage where he’s planning out his kids’ marriages. Like many others here, Ned had probably factored Jon into his “Gift Plan”, which would have involved setting him up as a new Master or Lord in the Gift and getting him a wife to boot.

As for who I think that wife would be, I honestly wonder if Ned might have had hopes of marrying Jon to Meera. From Howland’s perspective, he knows the identity of Jon's mother, regardless of which version you believe, and thus might be more open to having Jon as a good-son than other lords. Catelyn would certainly hate it: on paper, Meera is far out of Jon’s league given he is a bastard and she is, in a sense, the “backdoor key” to the gateway of the North; it wouldn’t matter to her that the Reeds seldom seem to involve themselves in politicking. Then again she’d probably be against Jon getting married at all, even to another bastard. However, when it comes to Jon, she had no sway over Ned whatsoever lest incurring his inner Papa Bear. 

The only other family who might not care about Jon’s bastardy are the Mormont women and they also have a stake in Ned’s ‘Gift Plan’ as frequent targets for wildling raids. There are the lower-level houses like the Pooles and the Cassels, or one of the minor bannermen for the other houses but even that runs the risk of seeming like an insult or that a bastard boy is being pawned off on them. Either way, I do think Ned would have tried to secure Jon a decent marriage.
 

The Girls

Ned seems to have accepted in his mind that his daughters will likely be going south for their marriages. While it would be lovely for Sansa to nab someone like Willas Tyrell, I don't see Ned wanting to broker a match with the Tyrells who he probably still doesn't like since the war. I'm Ned. I'm not ambitious for Southron connections and would likely prefer to sure up relations important to the security of the North. I'll stick with what I know. 

So, I see Ned looking to his traditional non-Northern allies in the Vale or among the Riverlands for Sansa and Arya's matches. These are the two closest kingdoms to the North, after all. Possible choices: Andar Royce (Heir to Runestone), Brynden Blackwood (Heir to Raventree Hall), Morton Waynwood’s firstborn son (Heir to Ironoaks).

He would probably not rule out a marriage between Robert “Sweetrobin” Arryn (Heir to the Eyrie and Lordship of the Vale) or, if he dies before reaching the age of majority, Harold “Arryn” if it comes to that and he is free to marry. We also cannot rule out Robert still wanting a match between one of the girls and Joffrey. [Gods save us all!]

That said, Ned might have chosen to put the North completely on lockdown. So, at least one daughter might have been kept in the North, especially since a war was probably going to break out in the south whether Ned became the Hand of the King or not.

Since Arya is the more suitable girl to keep in the North, the alternative bachelors I would have considered for her if I was Ned are people such as Cley Cerwyn. They are close to Winterfell and the kids already have a good relationship with him, meaning the bond between the Starks and Cerwyns is reinforced on two sides.

Daryn Hornwood might have been a good pick, Ned slipped in there and nab Alys for Robb, aha! 

There is also the Tallharts... but I suspect the plan is for Eddara Tallhart to marry Brandon Tallhart to unite the two branches. That leaves Beren, who might get Arya if they become part of his "Gift Plan" but in that situation, I suspect Ned would look for a Karstark, Umber, or Mountain clan match for Arya for the same reasons he would look for daughters among those families for Bran and Rickon.

Another option would be Jojen Reed, again, for the same reasons to why we can’t rule out Meera for Robb. Under normal circumstances, I think Arya would love being married into House Reed – seems like a family she could truly flourish in.

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30 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So what kept Ned from betrothing Robb to Alys Karstark?

Robb was only 15. Ned was not in a rush to have him married off just yet given that Brandon and himself were a few years older when they were to wed and that Ned is not even as politically motivated as his father appears to have been. 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Robb was only 15. Ned was not in a rush to have him married off just yet given that Brandon and himself were a few years older when they were to wed and that Ned is not even as politically motivated as his father appears to have been. 

 

 

 

Brandon was 14 when he was betrothed to Catelyn.

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23 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Brandon was 14 when he was betrothed to Catelyn.

14-16. Brandon was born in 262 and Cat was born either in 264 or 265, she was 12 when she was betrothed so Brandon could have been as old as 16 when it happened. 

But as I pointed out, Ned is not as political as his father was portrayed. With his best friend as King and the Lords of the Vale and the Riverlands his in-laws he is likely under less pressure to have his sons marry so early. 

 

Maybe if there was an offer of another Lord Paramounts daughter on the table Robb would have been betrothed earlier, but as the most eligible bachelor in the North Ned probably was happy to wait for the right offer. 

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6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So what kept Ned from betrothing Robb to Alys Karstark?

She was engaged to Daryn Hornwood by the time Robb was of the right age for betrothal. We don’t know when that was decided but it’s possible Rickard didn’t want to miss out on such a good match simply in the hopes he could get Robb. (Most lords are not as daft as Tywin when it comes to brokering marriage alliances!) When Rickard Karstark first displayed a desire for the match, I’m pretty sure Alys and Robb were only six or seven - very young, either way. The odds are that Ned simply didn’t want to put all his eggs in one basket at such an early age in Robb’s life. 

Ned is not politically savvy or ambitious as some of his bannermen. He would have probably wanted to wait for Robb to come of age before looking at the Northern options. I certainly don’t think he had any marriage plans below the Neck in mind as Ned’s concerns seem to have been North-based. Especially since he himself was obligated to marry outside the North and his parents were both Starks. So, the bannermen are well overdue a “reward” for their loyalty by having the honour of one of their daughters being the next Lady of Winterfell.

It is possible Ned might have wanted a particular girl for Robb... but it’s just as likely he was waiting for him to turn 16 and would then do a tally of Northern vassal daughters then.

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Robb would got Myrcella Baratheon, if that's not possible Margaery Tyrell would be a good pick though I doubt she would want to live in the North. The best Northern match would have been Wylla Manderly.

For Sansa I think the obvious answer is Willias. The marriage would allow Sansa to move to Highgarden which is the place she has always dreamed of and Willias would be a good husband. 

A lot of people seem to be assuming that a Northern husband would be best for Arya but I would argue that a Dornish husband would truly allow her to flourish. Trystane Martell or Edric Dayne would be my top choices. 

I would wed Bran to Bethany Blackwood given that Bran also seems to want to escape Winterfell and go south and the Blackwoods are a noble house that follows the old Gods. 

Rickon and Lyanna Mormont would be an interesting match  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/23/2018 at 11:15 PM, drhenry said:

Robb would got Myrcella Baratheon, if that's not possible Margaery Tyrell would be a good pick though I doubt she would want to live in the North. The best Northern match would have been Wylla Manderly.

For Sansa I think the obvious answer is Willias. The marriage would allow Sansa to move to Highgarden which is the place she has always dreamed of and Willias would be a good husband. 

A lot of people seem to be assuming that a Northern husband would be best for Arya but I would argue that a Dornish husband would truly allow her to flourish. Trystane Martell or Edric Dayne would be my top choices. 

I would wed Bran to Bethany Blackwood given that Bran also seems to want to escape Winterfell and go south and the Blackwoods are a noble house that follows the old Gods. 

Rickon and Lyanna Mormont would be an interesting match  

Ned would probably put his foot down on Margaery Tyrell. Lynesse Hightower left a bad taste in the North’s mouths about ladies from the Reach.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It really all depends what Ned knows. But, let we say it is before Robert's arrival in Winterfell.

Scenario: Ned doesn't know about a lot of things and he and Cat are just making obvious matchmaking

1. Robb - This one can go two ways. First, marrying a girl from the North, thus tying one of the vassal Houses to Starks. Alys Karstark seems like the best choice. But, if they want some other great House to be tied to them, then the Margaery Tyrell would be the number one choice. Catelyn would make sure that Margaery feels welcome and I am sure Marg would bring a flock of girls with her. This marriage would be a true power-couple of Westeros.

2. Sansa - As much as I hate to say this, Joffrey, theoretically, made sense. A girl like Sansa is expected to marry into royal family. So, Renly or Joffrey would make sense. Other viable candidates would include Trystane Martell, one of the Redwynes, Dickon Tarly...

3. Arya - This would be my Northern marriage. Knowing Arya, I do think that making a Southern marriage would be idiotic. But, marrying her into one of the Northern families, thus tying it to them seems smart. 

Given that Bran is 7 and Rickon is 3, I don't think it would be time to make wedding arrangements for them.

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