Redeeming Dorne

[Eilif]

I’m choosing to believe that the writers and producers are smarter than me and are actually going to make the tragedy that was the Dornish storyline make sense. I know a lot of people think they are just going to cut Dorne out of the story, but to me that seems like a waste of good portion of season 5’s budget… so I’m hoping. Here are two possibilities my friends and I have discussed that I think won’t make it all for nothing, granted, none of them are without fault.

First one is they blame everything on Doran. This way the Sand Snakes can appear to be Mrycella’s avenging angels. I don’t think two of the Sand Snakes went the whole way to King’s Landing just to kill a single dude. If they claim the Dornish seat on the small council they will learn who the movers and shakers are in the capital and get the access they need to avenge their father. While they maybe be able to convince Cercei, I don’t think that if Jaime stays around they will be able to convince them of their “good” intent. Unless they say that they were trying to kidnap Mrycella to save her form the Martell’s.

The second is if they discover evidence of Doran’s schemes to overthrow the Lannisters. This would dispel the weak Doran that they thought, they can realize that they have made a huge mistake, and redeem show-Doran from beyond the grave. If they follow up with Doran’s plan, they can get their revenge in a more book-Dornish fashion… especially since this “war” that they want makes no sense at all.

[Jehane]

I'd prefer the second option simply because I want to see Doran redeemed.

[RadSam]

I like the second option, although both would work well for the show. 

[Nerevanin]

The first option doesn't look likely to me because the Snakes wants revenge against the Lannisters and to start a war. Unless they would consider enough killing the innocent Myrcella and then Doran and Trystane, they didn't get their revenge yet. So making friends with Cersei doesn't make much sense imo.

I'd personally say that even if they found some tiny pieces of information that Doran might have schemed against the Iron Throne, they would not be able to follow it even if they wanted to. They're clearly lead by Ellaria who doesn't have a cold calculating mind and is rather hot-tempered and blind with desire to revenge. The Snakes are more followers than leaders. Plus Doran played his cards close to chest so they will have little to no idea what already happened, what is happened at the moment and what is planned to happen in the future.

My guess is that the Snakes in KL will try to kill Cersei or/and Tommen and will die during the attempt while Ellaria may try to take the throne and rebel against the Throne and start a war. In my opinion Dorne in the show is beyond saving.

[Jehane]

2 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

 In my opinion Dorne in the show is beyond saving.

This. Whatever they're doing with Dorne next, Dorne is ruined beyond repair.

[Clash]

There are two possibilities coming from this. Both could lead to an all out war between Dorne and the Lannisters. Ellaria didn't do all she did to gain power in Dorne not to do something with it. The first possibility is the assassination of Tommen. That was prophesied, but I'm not sure if that shouldn't happen later in the story because who inherits after Tommen? Margaery? That could be interesting. The other is an attack on Dorne for which the Lannisters would need the Tyrrells and hence what looks like the attack on Baelor's Sept. Either way, both factions are intent on revenge and that looks like war to me.

Another distraction away from the wall and the real enemy. One would suspect the destruction of both houses will follow. Which would in turn mean that of the original seven kingdoms, all are weakened to the point where any strong force and leader would be able to take over easily.

[RadSam]

I have thoughts on where the Dorne storyline is heading. I'm not sure what will happen this season, whether it will be talking about war against the IT or what, but whenever Dany lands in Westeros, I think she'll land in Dorne, most likely with Yara. Then Dany, Yara and Ellaria and whatever Sand Snakes are left will start the march to KL. I think it will be all about female empowerment and girl power. (I cringe at the thought of it.)

[Cas Stark]

Presumably the sand snakes will hang around KL and kill someone, probably Tommen eventually.

Dorne is beyond saving, when they killed Siddig and kept all of the sand snakes that was like driving a stake through the heart of any hope that the story could be uplifted from the cheesy camp tone that the sand snakes bring with them.

I say again, the fewer stories and characters they interact w/the better because they drag down everything they are connected with.

[Tianzi]

9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Presumably the sand snakes will hang around KL and kill someone, probably Tommen eventually.

God no. Even Tommen deserves better. Actually, I even wouldn't wish on Joffrey such a humiliating death.

Dorne is irredeemable. Burn it. Hear me, Drogon?

 But D&D seem to love the Sand Snakes and want to show as much of them as possible, so... I mean, psychopathic 'warrior' strippers, so empowering. 
 

[Miley the Monstrous]

Short of time travel, there's just no way to redeem this mess. 

Ramsay Bolton is easier to redeem himself than Ellaria Sand. I just typed that sentence. 

[Nerevanin]

55 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

 But D&D seem to love the Sand Snakes and want to show as much of them as possible, so... I mean, psychopathic 'warrior' strippers, so empowering. 
 

Yeah, three/four Xena wannabes is everything they could ever wish for because

1) they can take off their clothes in case a scene / an episode was way too boobless

2) they can say the most basic and cheesy lines ever that the writers couldcome up with

3) they can leave a stain on the whole Game of Thrones image that is beyond washing

4) they can act without thinking at all because their brain cells are on permanent vacation

5) they can show their boobs... wait, didn't I mention this already? Nevermind, it was the main reason why to include them anyway!

[Jehane]

They can act? Are sure sure?

[Ser Greenseer]

I like the option where the sand snakes try to assassinate Tommen and get immediately destroyed by Robert Strong, then one of the other Dornish houses comes in and just kills Ellaria and bad pussy. Let that be the end of it. 

Or Bran see's how awful Dorne is in a vision and completely wipes Dorne off the face of the earth with the hammer of the waters.

[WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive]

After watching this episode I don't think the Dorne storyline can be saved. Let us consider what just happened:

The Sand snakes want revenge for the crimes commited against the Martell family. The first crime is the rape and murder of Elia Martell by the Mountain, who is now dead. The person who ordered the murder is also dead. The other crime is the death of Oberyn Martell, who died in single combat with the Mountain in which both were slain. On the first glance, it seems that Elia's murder has been avenged and Oberyn died in a fair duel. 

But the sand snakes are not decieved. They realize that the only way to avenge the deaths of Elia and Oberyn is to kill all remaining Martells and escort the heir to Casterly Rock safely back to King's Landing.

[Ser Hyle]

D&D seem to prefer only the source material what they can over-sensationalze. Littlefinger as brothel owner, Renly/Loras' relationship, the torture and mutilation of Theon, rape rape and more rape, Melisandres tits, tits tits and more tits, etc. 

When it came time for Dorne, they had no interest in the convoluted politics between the knee-jerk elements and the long game/big picture planning of the viper in the grass. They wanted the charismatic and sexually liberal Oberyn taking KL by storm and then ending in a gruesome death, and they wanted his sexy and deadly bastard daughters, nothing else. Oberyn's arc in the show was great, and a fan favourite because it was closely based on the source material. Everything else Dorne related is original material, which is why the Sand Snakes and the Dornish subplot in general seems to be parachuted into the series from a 1980's B movie. "You want a good girl, but you need the bad pussy" says it all. There's no hope for redemption. The only hope is that the killing of Doran/Areo/Trystane is a killing of the subplot and a cutting of losses for the series.

[Ser Hyle]

1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

Yeah, three/four Xena wannabes is everything they could ever wish for because

1) they can take off their clothes in case a scene / an episode was way too boobless

2) they can say the most basic and cheesy lines ever that the writers couldcome up with

3) they can leave a stain on the whole Game of Thrones image that is beyond washing

4) they can act without thinking at all because their brain cells are on permanent vacation

5) they can show their boobs... wait, didn't I mention this already? Nevermind, it was the main reason why to include them anyway!

I'm usually of the opinion that boobs can save anything, but unfortunately not even the incredible boobs of dagger Snake's can redeem this tire fire.

[Tagganaro]

It'll be interesting to see what happens the rest of the season with Dorne.  I think/hope what we're gonna see is Ellaria frame the Lannisters for Doran and Trystane's murder in order to incite war (which is in line with show Ellaria and Sand Snakes intentions and Book Sandsnakes intentions).  Now the question becomes how do they rule?  Is it sort of a popular revolt kind of situation where Ellaria is the paramour of the beloved Oberyn and people are behind her?  Another (extremely unlikely I admit) route could be to bring in Arrianne or Quentyn as a figurehead, but I don't believe they ever got casted.

In any case, the Show Dorne of last season was sort of impossible to redeem (and to be honest I think book Dorne is pretty much shit as well) so I enjoyed this "ah, screw it.  Burn it to the ground.  Get us to endgame situation." thinking.  I think endgame in books is Arriane/Faegon.  In show, to simplify it will be Ellaria/Dany.

 

 

[Clash]

9 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens the rest of the season with Dorne.  I think/hope what we're gonna see is Ellaria frame the Lannisters for Doran and Trystane's murder in order to incite war (which is in line with show Ellaria and Sand Snakes intentions and Book Sandsnakes intentions).  Now the question becomes how do they rule?  Is it sort of a popular revolt kind of situation where Ellaria is the paramour of the beloved Oberyn and people are behind her?  Another (extremely unlikely I admit) route could be to bring in Arrianne or Quentyn as a figurehead, but I don't believe they ever got casted.

In any case, the Show Dorne of last season was sort of impossible to redeem (and to be honest I think book Dorne is pretty much shit as well) so I enjoyed this "ah, screw it.  Burn it to the ground.  Get us to endgame situation." thinking.  I think endgame in books is Arriane/Faegon.  In show, to simplify it will be Ellaria/Dany.

It seems Quentyn and Arianne don't exist in the show. Since Quentyn is already Meereenese Fried Chicken and Arianne is seemingly headed for a showdown with KL in the book, a similar situation will develop in the show, except with Ellaria in the lead rather than Arianne. So the purpose of getting rid of Doran and Trystane in the show was to give Ellaria control of Dorne (I can't think of anyone else in the show who has any succession rights) and lose the less hawkish elements so that a war can exist between Dorne and KL.

[Tagganaro]

10 minutes ago, Clash said:

It seems Quentyn and Arianne don't exist in the show. Since Quentyn is already Meereenese Fried Chicken and Arianne is seemingly headed for a showdown with KL in the book, a similar situation will develop in the show, except with Ellaria in the lead rather than Arianne. So the purpose of getting rid of Doran and Trystane in the show was to give Ellaria control of Dorne (I can't think of anyone else in the show who has any succession rights) and lose the less hawkish elements so that a war can exist between Dorne and KL.

Yeah, that's what I think we're getting to as well.  I'm largely fine with it as a way of simplifying Dorne, which like I said, I felt was just as much of an unnecessary detour and waste and mess in ADWD.  I am gonna miss Dorkstar though...really wish he could make an appearance somehow on the show.

[Ravness]

2 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

In any case, the Show Dorne of last season was sort of impossible to redeem (and to be honest I think book Dorne is pretty much shit as well) so I enjoyed this "ah, screw it.  Burn it to the ground.  Get us to endgame situation." thinking.  I think endgame in books is Arriane/Faegon.  In show, to simplify it will be Ellaria/Dany.

 

 

Even if book readers who also watch the show know that the Dornish "master plan" ultimately failed, I think they could've handled getting to the endgame situation better.

That being said, I find it'll be difficult for them to redeem Dorne in the show. If they manage to make Ellaria and the Sand Snakes likeable after the stunt they just pulled, I'd be pleasantly surprised.