Captain America 3 - Discussion and reviews (SPOILERS in tags until May 14th!)

[Howdyphillip]

I just saw this movie last night, and absolutely adored it. Once again the MCU slams another film out of the ballpark. I'm not going to go into much detail here, but I disagree entirely with the original post in this thread. Every single character had believable motivations. The premise was nuanced enough to allow an audience to understand both sides of the conflict, and the action was amazing. Speaking of Amazing, we also just saw the best adaptation of my favorite Marvel character in Spiderman. I can't wait to see his stand alone flick.

[Bastard of Boston]

I loved this movie so hard. Not to belabor a point, but I gotta say it -- Spidey and Black Panther ftw. I feel as if the Russos did a masterful job balancing the cast. The fact that I can find all the arcs within the film is pretty amazing. I disagree that characters were left by the wayside. Everyone was given a solid supporting role...except maybe Hawkeye. At the end of the day, no matter how much people want to consider this an Avengers movie, it wasn't. This movie was about two characters.

As much as I like Andrew Garfield, Holland is going to redefine this role and make all the people wary of yet another Spider-Man reboot rethink their stance. The mentorship between Spidey and Iron Man is something special -- they need to keep going to that well. Boseman was fantastic, combining the savagery and regality of BP. Just great additions to the growing MCU.

Speaking of casting, Sebastian Stan as Bucky is my low key MVP of the movie. You gotta wonder if Marvel knew way back when they cast him that he'd grow into this role the way he has. If Evans ever decides to hang it up, I want Buckycap. He deserves it.

The emotional stakes of this movie were legit. When Tony learned the truth about Bucky, it was such a kick in the gut. At that point, there was no rationality, there was only rage and hurt, which was only compounded by having your friend and compatriot pick the other guy over you. It was raw and satisfying. Loved it.

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, Bastard of Boston said:

When Tony learned the truth about Bucky, it was such a kick in the gut. At that point, there was no rationality, there was only rage and hurt, which was only compounded by having your friend and compatriot pick the other guy over you. It was raw and satisfying. Loved it.

That reminds me:

Spoiler

Did we know before this movie that Bucky killed his parents? For some reason, that wasn't remotely a surprise to me. Maybe they did too good a job matching the crash to the newspaper picture from Winter Soldier? The second Tony said they never made it, I thought that was the case. Dunno why. I guess people must have speculated this, seeing as we knew it was HYDRA and we knew they had the WS on hand at the time.

 

[Mladen]

I have just seen it... Absolutely wonderful. Amazing on all fronts. Between the personal drama with every character (par Falcon and Hawkeye, they were a bit, if not redundant, then just not contributing to the plot as one may expected) and amazing battle scenes, it was truly incredible experience. Props to casting. Young Mr Holland owns screen with such undoubted, yet incredibly entertaining, childish charisma that you just want to see more and more of him. Of all the Spideys so far, I am truly the most excited about this one. And if Gods will have mercy on us all, we might see Daredevil with him. That pair would be awesome.

I would also disagree with the idea that the characters in this one weren't flashed out. In comparison to Age o Ultron, when we saw Avengers dealing with their own stuff individually, to see them dealing with certain things both alone and as part of a team was rather exciting. My favorites, Wanda and Vision didn't disappoint and both Olsen and Bettany shone. There were couple of moments during airport battle sequence where these two were a bit MIA, but naturally, the camera can't be everywhere. I am not the biggest fan of entire Ant-Man introduction, Falcon (unlike Rhodes) was just a sidekick without even an opinion to voice. Black Panther was really cool and even though (I am not sure about this, though) his accent was a bit inconsistent, I am also hyped about him... Russos made excellent job of introducing both Black Panther and Spiderman in such natural fashion that I couldn't be more excited about their respective movies.

Zemo was also one of the best Marvel's villains. And the beautiful irony of Avengers is that they can fight alien invasion or genocidal AI, but they were torn by one man who played them like a fiddle. 

I wasn't sure what team I am supposed to root for, but the moment

Spoiler

Steve admitted of knowing Bucky killed Howard and his wife, Tony had all my support. I think that for me the fact he found out Bucky killed his parents wasn't the most devastating thing. It is the fact that Steve knew. And that was perhaps the saddest thing of all.

I would agree that emotional stakes for everyone involved and I especially loved Cap, Tony and Wanda... Lastly, do you people think that...

Spoiler

Civil War also gives us nice answer why Cap was able to twitch Thor's hammer, but not actually lift it? 

 

[Jon AS]

22 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

That reminds me:

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Did we know before this movie that Bucky killed his parents? For some reason, that wasn't remotely a surprise to me. Maybe they did too good a job matching the crash to the newspaper picture from Winter Soldier? The second Tony said they never made it, I thought that was the case. Dunno why. I guess people must have speculated this, seeing as we knew it was HYDRA and we knew they had the WS on hand at the time.

 

Considering Winter Soldier stopped just short of outright saying that Howard Stark's death had been orchestrated by Hydra and that Bucky was Hydra's best hitman, it had been widely speculated since that film's release that Bucky was indeed the one who killed them.

[denstorebog]

51 minutes ago, Jon AS said:

 

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Considering Winter Soldier stopped just short of outright saying that Howard Stark's death had been orchestrated by Hydra and that Bucky was Hydra's best hitman, it had been widely speculated since that film's release that Bucky was indeed the one who killed them.

 

Spoiler

Based on that montage in Winter Soldier, I thought it was extremely clear that WS was the killer. I don't remember exactly how, but as far as I recall, it's as good as explicitly stated in a visual way.

 

[williamjm]

Steve admitted of knowing Bucky killed Howard and his wife, Tony had all my support. I think that for me the fact he found out Bucky killed his parents wasn't the most devastating thing. It is the fact that Steve knew. And that was perhaps the saddest thing of all.

One things I was curious about was...

do we know how Steve knew that Bucky killed Tony's parents? It's not too surprising given that he's probably been trying to find out as much as he could about the Winter Soldier.

[Bastard of Boston]

9 minutes ago, williamjm said:

 

 

One things I was curious about was...

 

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do we know how Steve knew that Bucky killed Tony's parents? It's not too surprising given that he's probably been trying to find out as much as he could about the Winter Soldier.

 

Spoiler

I thought Bucky specifically told him, when Cap was digging into why Zemo wanted him. Bucky told Cap that Zemo was asking about a specific op. I figured it was just the rest of that scene, which we weren't shown.

 

[williamjm]

1 minute ago, Bastard of Boston said:

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I thought Bucky specifically told him, when Cap was digging into why Zemo wanted him. Bucky told Cap that Zemo was asking about a specific op. I figured it was just the rest of that scene, which we weren't shown.

 

That would make sense. It is a bit odd because the way the conversation with Tony goes it makes it sounds like Steve has been hiding it from him (which would understandably make Tony angry), but it's not as if they've been having any long conversations in the meantime.

[Martini Sigil]

Lived up to the hype, IMO

[RumHam]

11 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

What I loved actually was that when the 5 super soldiers were revealed, my heart sunk. It was such a dull climax to the movie to have the avengers go have one last battle with some faceless nobodies.. and the writers knew that! So they lull you into thinking thats where its going, because most movies wouldn't bother with anything better than that. What we got at the end was far more powerful and satisfying. 

I really have to develop some willpower and just stop watching trailers. Because yeah, that must've been great. Having seen fragments of that final fight in the trailers I knew it had to be some kinda misdirection. 

Edit: this may be a crazy idea but they should do with trailers what some shows do with audition scripts. Just shoot something real quick that's not actually in the movie but gives you an idea what to expect. Considering how Marvel seems to often shoot multiple versions of scenes to avoid spoilers it's possible they could even do this without any extra filming. 

[ens362]

The best superhero movie of all time in my opinion.

Spoiler

Did anyone else think they were gonna kill of Ant Man when he went all Goliath on us like in the comics?

 

[mormont]

12 hours ago, williamjm said:

 

 

One things I was curious about was...

 

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do we know how Steve knew that Bucky killed Tony's parents? It's not too surprising given that he's probably been trying to find out as much as he could about the Winter Soldier.

 

As far as I recall, you guys are reading that scene wrong.

Tony asks Steve if he knew. Steve replies that he didn't know it was Bucky. Tony says 'but you knew'. Steve says 'yeah'.

So I read that as saying that Steve knew Tony's parents didn't die in a car crash, as Tony believed, but were assassinated by HYDRA, and that's what he kept from Tony. He may have suspected that Bucky did it, after Winter Soldier, but he didn't know for sure until he saw the video.

7 hours ago, ens362 said:

The best superhero movie of all time in my opinion.

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Did anyone else think they were gonna kill of Ant Man when he went all Goliath on us like in the comics?

 

Not with another film already scheduled.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Another thing I loved about the movie was how they treated superpowers. They are lucky in that none of the main characters are over powered.

Take the chase scene with Bucky Cap and Panther. Cap running FELT like a guy who could run really fast , a bit like in Winter Soldier. The chase was exciting because it felt real, but hightened!

The stairwell fight had the same quality , these are people are a lot stronger than normal guys, but not  so stupidly strong it becomes cartoonish.

Its far more intense to see Cap punch a bit out of a wall or knocking a guy flying than it is to see Superman picking up a plane. 

[denstorebog]

2 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Another thing I loved about the movie was how they treated superpowers. They are lucky in that none of the main characters are over powered.

Take the chase scene with Bucky Cap and Panther. Cap running FELT like a guy who could run really fast , a bit like in Winter Soldier. The chase was exciting because it felt real, but hightened!

The stairwell fight had the same quality , these are people are a lot stronger than normal guys, but not  so stupidly strong it becomes cartoonish.

Its far more intense to see Cap punch a bit out of a wall or knocking a guy flying than it is to see Superman picking up a plane. 

I still feel that it's kinda fortunate that Quicksilver died in AoU. His superpower is deceptively powerful from a storytelling standpoint. A lot of action scenes are built up around timing, and he just screws that over. It was really telling how QS in X-Men had that famous scene, then decided to go back home. I know I'm gonna be pretty critical when seeing scenes that he's in from now on - there's so much room for "why didn't he do that?" moments whenever he's around.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

28 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

I still feel that it's kinda fortunate that Quicksilver died in AoU. His superpower is deceptively powerful from a storytelling standpoint. A lot of action scenes are built up around timing, and he just screws that over. It was really telling how QS in X-Men had that famous scene, then decided to go back home. I know I'm gonna be pretty critical when seeing scenes that he's in from now on - there's so much room for "why didn't he do that?" moments whenever he's around.

yeah also look at the way Vaughn approaches Quicksilver in Xmen, visually the speed effect is quite interesting and probably the best part of his movie, but at the same time, it completely takes you out of the movie and makes you realise its not real. Its a good thing he's gone really. 

[polishgenius]

12 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

yeah also look at the way Vaughn approaches Quicksilver in Xmen, visually the speed effect is quite interesting and probably the best part of his movie, but at the same time, it completely takes you out of the movie and makes you realise its not real. Its a good thing he's gone really. 

It's not Vaughn, it's Singer. Vaughn never handled QS.


AoS Quicksilver was very different though. He didn't have nearly as much control, nor was he as fast. He was quite within the powerlevel really- I'd say Vision and his sister are both more powerful than him, and Thor definitely is. It was much commented on how Thor flew off for half the final battle in AoU, and Vision did something quite similar at the airport here. Apart from drawing the line in the concrete and, you know, he really didn't do too much.

 

As much as I enjoyed how the Russos do fights though, I don't think it's a function of how powerful the characters are. You reference Superman catching a plane, but imo despite the huge averageness of the film around it, that's still one of the most memorable fights in superhero movie history. So is the very flashy first scene of X-Men 2 (it's perhaps not a coincidence that Singer directed both of them and the QS scene too. He knows how to get a visual handle on the more out-there superpowers, for sure). I guess I just don't give a shit about being reminded it's not real.

[Calibandar]

Genuinely shocked to see how positive this utterly dull film is being received in this thread.

When I finished watching this I thought it would be slammed, because Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman got slammed as well.

When it's Marvel though, the response tends to be a lot more positive around these parts. Same with the Marvel Netflix series which to me are pretty awful to watch, but again, loads of praise for it.

[polishgenius]

I haven't seen BvS yet and I liked Man of Steel, but the reason this and Marvel Netflix are getting lots of praise is because they're really good and fun and all that.

[Corvinus85]

I liked, but I need to see it again, to figure out just so much I really liked it. I was a bit distracted in the first half of the movie, but then it clicked. The best superhero flick so far this year, though I would say Deadpool is a close 2nd.