THE PUNISHER now a Netflix series

[Dr. Pepper]

2 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Oh no! I was by no means advocating watching the terrible movie w/  Thomas Jane & John Travolta. I actually tried watching it again this year because I thought maybe my memory was playing tricks on me and it couldn't have been as bad as I remembered, but no, no it was that bad. The scene where the Russian wrecks Frank's apartment is about the only worthwhile thing in that entire movie. That clip I posted was basically a rich guy making an indie fan fic pic and it's better than the entirety of the Jane/Travolta film.

I hardly remember the movie, but what I do remember is that I loved it so much it turned me into a total comic book film fan.  

[PetyrPunkinhead]

18 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I hardly remember the movie, but what I do remember is that I loved it so much it turned me into a total comic book film fan.  

That's how I felt about the Dolph Lundgren Punisher film.  

[The BlackBear]

I was quite fond of the Ray Stevenson Punisher: War Zone. He suited the part perfectly. And their Jig Saw wasn't terrible either.

[Martini Sigil]

4 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

I was quite fond of the Ray Stevenson Punisher: War Zone. He suited the part perfectly. And their Jig Saw wasn't terrible either.

agreed... whatever problems that movie had --and it had many-- Stevenson and West were not among them

.... but i think that Berenthal will re-define the character

[Nictarion]

Yeah Berenthal is the best Punisher by far. He's perfect for that role. 

[red snow]

3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Yeah Berenthal is the best Punisher by far. He's perfect for that role. 

He tends to do a good job of sympathetic psycho. Walking Dead, Fury, Wolf of Wall Street, brief appearance in Baby Driver and to some extent Mob City (although that was him sort of doing good guy).

As long as they give him a decent story he should do fine. My worry is they'll be a bit aimless or repetitive which would be a shame given the abundance of good stories to pick from Garth Ennis' run. Steve Lightfoot wrote a lot of episodes of Hannibal which feels like the right kind of balance for how to handle The Punisher - monster with their own rule book but in this case directed at criminals.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I think the problem with Punisher on film/TV has never been the casting of Frank Castle; all four actors who've played the role thus far have given good performances. The real rub with the Punisher has always been the writing (and also directing in case of live action). Punisher stories are essentially revenge stories, and for revenge stories to work the audience must have victims they empathize with and villains they want to see punished. The biggest problem with this sort of story is it is difficult to sustain that balance of seeing characters abused/traumatized with seeing justice and/or vengeance for these abuses/traumas being meted out by the protagonist.

Tarantino does excellent work with this balancing act over fairly long films. And I think one of the reasons Punisher worked so well on netflix is that he was introduced in S2 of DD alongside established characters. His origin and initial arc of vengeance was put out in doses and allowed to be sprinkled throughout other story arcs, thus making that traditional vengeance plotline problem much less of a problem. I think Punisher will be equally as good in The Defenders in a small dose.

However, can a solo Punisher story really be sustained over 13 episodes on Netflix? That is going to take some damn fine writing and directing. My guess is it'll do a lot of heavy focus on side characters and villain origins. Hopefully we'll see DD in there for some episodes because Matt is a good foil for Frank's philosophy. In DDS2 we see a Frank 100% committed to his methodology and philosophy. I'd like to see an arc over the season where that certainty is shaken and questioned by the end of the season. Not changed, however, because then he'd no longer be the Punisher.

 

[red snow]

4 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

However, can a solo Punisher story really be sustained over 13 episodes on Netflix? That is going to take some damn fine writing and directing. My guess is it'll do a lot of heavy focus on side characters and villain origins. Hopefully we'll see DD in there for some episodes because Matt is a good foil for Frank's philosophy. In DDS2 we see a Frank 100% committed to his methodology and philosophy. I'd like to see an arc over the season where that certainty is shaken and questioned by the end of the season. Not changed, however, because then he'd no longer be the Punisher.

 

I'd be surprised if we don't see him pop up in "defenders" or at least get a mention. Not as part of the team but just showing up as it'd help promote his show. Same with your suggesiton of maybe having Daredevil/Matt Murdock appear in an episode.

I probably shouldn't assume that the showrunner will mimic Hannibal's structure but it does help for speculation. So here I go. I'm guessing we'll get a detective whose job it is to take the Punisher down. Over the course of the season said detective will find a grey area and wonder whether the Punisher has a use.

A good villain would of course be Wilson Fisk. I'd like it if Fisk (or a new villain) harnesses the Punisher and uses him to take out rivals without the Punisher being fully aware/caring.

Corrupt police force helps too for storylines especially if there's a regular detective trying to take Punisher down.

The problem with punisher is that he doesn't really have an alter ego. He doesn't hide from anyone pretending to be someone else which is something similar shows tend to do. Hannibal appears to be a sophisticated Pyschologist who helps with murder cases, Dexter is a forensics guy. In both scenarios we do get stories of them interacting with others in a "normal" way. Frank Castle doesn't really have that - he's the Punisher all the time. This makes it difficult but is almost certainly why "microchip" or whatever his name is part of the cast.

[HexMachina]

Having Karen Page in Punisher is a good start, imo. She understood him and wanted to help him the most throughout DD season 2. Very much looking forward to seeing the two of them together again.

I'm not especially bothered about DD showing up or not, I don't feel he is essential or anything to The Punisher (going just off DD s2, btw, not comics). I would love to see him face off with Fisk though

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

8 hours ago, red snow said:

A good villain would of course be Wilson Fisk. I'd like it if Fisk (or a new villain) harnesses the Punisher and uses him to take out rivals without the Punisher being fully aware/caring.

 That could be a solid story line. NYC Gang war with all the standard Marvel participants. Kingpin, The Rose, Silvermane, Hammerhead, Man Mountain Marko, Jigsaw etc etc. 

[red snow]

12 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 That could be a solid story line. NYC Gang war with all the standard Marvel participants. Kingpin, The Rose, Silvermane, Hammerhead, Man Mountain Marko, Jigsaw etc etc. 

A straight forward season arc nicely mixing 1-2 episode take downs and the reveal he's handed it all over to a single crime-lord. Season 2 - the fallout.

They just need to be brave and kill off some of the antagonists. The Punisher loses a lot of cred when it turns out he rarely kills any of the crime-bosses.

One thing I hope they avoid is mining his family's death and tie it into conspiracies where there's yet another villain behind it.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

On 8/2/2017 at 10:21 AM, red snow said:

I'd be surprised if we don't see him pop up in "defenders" or at least get a mention. Not as part of the team but just showing up as it'd help promote his show...

I also think it's a safe bet Punisher will show at some point in Defenders. The Stan Lee trailer released in the SDCC'17 deluge strongly hints at it.

 

[mormont]

If you wanted to do a surprise guest appearance, I suppose Frank would be the easiest, as Bernthal being around the studio would not be remarked upon.

[The BlackBear]

Do we know who has the rights to Tombstone? You could almost paint him as an anti-Luke Cage.

On 02/08/2017 at 4:21 PM, red snow said:

Corrupt police force helps too for storylines especially if there's a regular detective trying to take Punisher down.

Given the last few series I'd be surprised if any of the police aren't corrupt.

[GallowKnight]

42 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

Do we know who has the rights to Tombstone? You could almost paint him as an anti-Luke Cage.

Given the last few series I'd be surprised if any of the police aren't corrupt.

Tombstone's first appearance was in a Spider-Man comic, so it's possible that Sony has the rights for him. He would make for great foe for either Punisher or Luke Cage.

[red snow]

2 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

I also think it's a safe bet Punisher will show at some point in Defenders. The Stan Lee trailer released in the SDCC'17 deluge strongly hints at it.

 

Doesn't exactly fit Stan Lee's "heroic" description!

17 minutes ago, mormont said:

If you wanted to do a surprise guest appearance, I suppose Frank would be the easiest, as Bernthal being around the studio would not be remarked upon.

The fact they were filming his show makes it really hard to imagine that he might not pop up in defenders and vice-versa.

[red snow]

17 hours ago, GallowKnight said:

Tombstone's first appearance was in a Spider-Man comic, so it's possible that Sony has the rights for him. He would make for great foe for either Punisher or Luke Cage.

It depends on the list with their initial agreement. Punisher, after all first appeared in Spider-man. As did Kingpin. The crime characters may have been overlooked in favour of more gimiicky/recognisable villains for spidey and I think in general it's a case of Marvel owns it if no-one else specifically has a claim to it.

They could argue that Tombstone is as much a Daredevil villain as a spidey one and therefore both can use him as with Quicksilver in Avengers and X-men. I doubt Tombstone is on Sony's radar as that doesn't seem to be the type of villain they go for.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

On 8/5/2017 at 2:21 AM, red snow said:

Doesn't exactly fit Stan Lee's "heroic" description!

The fact they were filming his show makes it really hard to imagine that he might not pop up in defenders and vice-versa.

I thought the same thing about Frank showing up at the end of that video. I almost expected a voice over of Stan at the end saying, "And then there's Frank Castle."

[GallowKnight]

Teaser Trailer

 

[Calibandar]

Guess it's going to be a November release.