Danaerys's Heir

[Mason2]

Hey long time viewer just felt this needed to be posted because I never see this topic discussed.  Danaerys knows that she cannot have a child, do you think she has thought about if or when she tries to be Queen of Westeros, who would rule after her death?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

If she thought about her heir, she hid that from the readers.

But we do not know that she cannot have children. That's what Dany herself thinks, but the girl hasn't got her maester's degree, so she doesn't know, either.

[Maxxine]

This is one the biggest issues I have with Dany getting the IT. Even though I'm rooting for her, if she can't have kids then her reign because super complicated and there's not really an end because all this stuff would probably just repeat itself because she doesn't have an heir. With that being said, I get the feeling she's not going to be barren forever. I'm thinking (hoping) Mirri's prophecy is more figurative than literal. Plus there's something weird happening at the end of Dance. Maybe she has the pale mare, maybe her period, maybe a miscarriage. Idk. 

[CJ McLannister]

If Mirri's statement is a prophecy or curse, rather than just her being a bitch, it's about when her sun and stars will return to her.  She interprets it to mean "never," which then means that none of the things mentioned will ever happen, but that's not necessarily true.

But to the original point, she doesn't care if she would leave the kingdom in chaos.  That's a problem for later.

[norwaywolf123]

Is it not prophecised that dany will die in childbirth?

 

Targaryen Succesion line: (Offical)

Aegon"if real">Jon Snow"if Legitmised or chosen by grandcouncil and regognised as Rhaegars bastard">Maegor"Aerions son">Daenerys>Tommen"Assuming that he is Roberts son>Stannis>Myrcella"same as Tommen">Shireen>Vaella"daughter of Daeron the drunk">Daella's brood"Aegon5s sister">Rhae"same as Daella">Doran

[SeanF]

I imagine she thinks she'll cross that bridge when she reaches it.

There are Targaryen relatives in Westeros, even without her knowing about Jon's existence.  The Tarths, Martells, Velaryons, Blackwoods, Hightowers, could all be considered for the succession.  I would assume that the Baratheons would not be considered, due to Robert's Rebellion.

[norwaywolf123]

8 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

This is one the biggest issues I have with Dany getting the IT. Even though I'm rooting for her, if she can't have kids then her reign because super complicated and there's not really an end because all this stuff would probably just repeat itself because she doesn't have an heir. With that being said, I get the feeling she's not going to be barren forever. I'm thinking (hoping) Mirri's prophecy is more figurative than literal. Plus there's something weird happening at the end of Dance. Maybe she has the pale mare, maybe her period, maybe a miscarriage. Idk. 

I think that Daenerys will have some miscarriages but ultimatly give birth to living child. She will also die in the birthing bed.

What gender will Dany's child have?

Who Will Father Dany's child?

[norwaywolf123]

Just now, SeanF said:

I imagine she thinks she'll cross that bridge when she reaches it.

There are Targaryen relatives in Westeros, even without her knowing about Jon's existence.  The Tarths, Martells, Velaryons, Blackwoods, Hightowers, could all be considered for the succession.  I would assume that the Baratheons would not be considered, due to Robert's Rebellion.

What about Queen Brienne? With her consort ser Jaime?  

[A spoon of knife and fork]

13 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

What about Queen Brienne? With her consort ser Jaime?  

<3

younger and more (figuratively) beautiful queen.  Perfection.

But, I Doubt it.  GRRM knew where his story was going before the 2nd book, and I don't think he had created the character of Brienne until after book 1.

[Dorian Martell]

1 hour ago, Mason2 said:

Hey long time viewer just felt this needed to be posted because I never see this topic discussed.  Danaerys knows that she cannot have a child, do you think she has thought about if or when she tries to be Queen of Westeros, who would rule after her death?

It matters not that she can't have children for she is the blood of the dragon and the blood of the conqueror. 
Now, with that being said:
Quentyn Martell, The Sun's Son, was born in westeros and undertook a mission in slaver's bay where he died
     "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," 
When Dany leaves Drogo's lair in the Dothraki sea, it is dry and brown
     "When the seas go dry"     
Gregor Clegane (the mountain that rides) is repeatedly stabbed, poisoned and knocked over and eventually dies a horrible, painful screaming death  
     "and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. "    
And then Dany eats the wild berries and she starts to bleed heavily from her vagina, like she is having a miscarriage 
     "When your womb quickens again "  

All she needs to do now is carry a baby to term and Drogo will return 
The prophecy almost completes itself 

[Lord Varys]

Dany doesn't have to have an heir of her own body. She could just name an heir. Either a Jon Snow who has been recognized and acknowledged by her as Rhaegar's son (and legitimized should that be necessary), a legitimized Tyrion Targaryen, an infant child fathered by Aegon on Arianne Martell (or whoever else Aegon is going to marry), a child of either Jon Snow's or a legitimized Tyrion, or just some random Targaryen cousin through the female line whose face and manners she likes - if such a person ends up claiming one of her dragons it should work. Hell, she could perhaps even anoint some random dude her depending on the amount of power she'll have.

We should also not underestimate the possibility of the dragons procreating and Targaryen children actually bonding with new hatchlings before the series is over.

But I doubt Dany's barrenness will ever be conclusively proven (unless, of course, she actually has a successful pregnancy at one point and delivers a living child) because there is no time for that. The series will eventually end, and if Dany survives it we'll not know whether she'll have a child next year, in five years, in ten years or in thirty years (or not at all).

If Dany ends up on the Iron Throne in the end (or co-rules Westeros at the side of Jon Snow, Tyrion, or whoever else her consort might) then we also have no idea who will eventually succeed them. Because that won't be covered by the series. If Dany is pregnant by the end or already has given birth to a child then we could guess that that child will succeed her - but that will not be a guarantee.

[Princess of Dragonflies]

36 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

It matters not that she can't have children for she is the blood of the dragon and the blood of the conqueror. 
Now, with that being said:
Quentyn Martell, The Sun's Son, was born in westeros and undertook a mission in slaver's bay where he died
     "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," 
When Dany leaves Drogo's lair in the Dothraki sea, it is dry and brown
     "When the seas go dry"     
Gregor Clegane (the mountain that rides) is repeatedly stabbed, poisoned and knocked over and eventually dies a horrible, painful screaming death  
     "and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. "    
And then Dany eats the wild berries and she starts to bleed heavily from her vagina, like she is having a miscarriage 
     "When your womb quickens again "  

All she needs to do now is carry a baby to term and Drogo will return 
The prophecy almost completes itself 

Although I hadn't put all that together, which is awesome BTW, I did always think that the bleeding was a miscarriage and assumed it was Dario's

[Raisin' Bran]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell said:

It matters not that she can't have children for she is the blood of the dragon and the blood of the conqueror. 
Now, with that being said:
Quentyn Martell, The Sun's Son, was born in westeros and undertook a mission in slaver's bay where he died
     "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," 
When Dany leaves Drogo's lair in the Dothraki sea, it is dry and brown
     "When the seas go dry"     
Gregor Clegane (the mountain that rides) is repeatedly stabbed, poisoned and knocked over and eventually dies a horrible, painful screaming death  
     "and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. "    
And then Dany eats the wild berries and she starts to bleed heavily from her vagina, like she is having a miscarriage 
     "When your womb quickens again "  

All she needs to do now is carry a baby to term and Drogo will return 
The prophecy almost completes itself 

Thanks for that. To add to the Gregor part, the spear head was leaf shaped, was it not?

[norwaywolf123]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Dany doesn't have to have an heir of her own body. She could just name an heir. Either a Jon Snow who has been recognized and acknowledged by her as Rhaegar's son (and legitimized should that be necessary), a legitimized Tyrion Targaryen, an infant child fathered by Aegon on Arianne Martell (or whoever else Aegon is going to marry), a child of either Jon Snow's or a legitimized Tyrion, or just some random Targaryen cousin through the female line whose face and manners she likes - if such a person ends up claiming one of her dragons it should work. Hell, she could perhaps even anoint some random dude her depending on the amount of power she'll have.

We should also not underestimate the possibility of the dragons procreating and Targaryen children actually bonding with new hatchlings before the series is over.

But I doubt Dany's barrenness will ever be conclusively proven (unless, of course, she actually has a successful pregnancy at one point and delivers a living child) because there is no time for that. The series will eventually end, and if Dany survives it we'll not know whether she'll have a child next year, in five years, in ten years or in thirty years (or not at all).

If Dany ends up on the Iron Throne in the end (or co-rules Westeros at the side of Jon Snow, Tyrion, or whoever else her consort might) then we also have no idea who will eventually succeed them. Because that won't be covered by the series. If Dany is pregnant by the end or already has given birth to a child then we could guess that that child will succeed her - but that will not be a guarantee.

Tyrion is dwarf called the deomon monkey so i doubt she will mary him

fAegon i think she will kill in the dance 2.0 and is possible issue will meet the fates of aegon 2 s children

Jon Snow will be the young dragon/Cregan Stark he will not make the same mistakes like Robb "Messing in the westerlands" and march straight on kingslanding to force the IronThrone to peace and to fight against the others. Jon will either die against the otheres or be betrayed since he has become so popular that somebody seas him as a threat to their way of life. I dont think he will ever father a child. And the only woman he will know is Ygritte.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Dany never thinks ahead. That stayed true through all the books. Not even for two weeks. Why do you assumer her to think about which war she'll cause in fifty years?

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Tyrion is dwarf called the deomon monkey so i doubt she will mary him

fAegon i think she will kill in the dance 2.0 and is possible issue will meet the fates of aegon 2 s children

Jon Snow will be the young dragon/Cregan Stark he will not make the same mistakes like Robb "Messing in the westerlands" and march straight on kingslanding to force the IronThrone to peace and to fight against the others. Jon will either die against the otheres or be betrayed since he has become so popular that somebody seas him as a threat to their way of life. I dont think he will ever father a child. And the only woman he will know is Ygritte.

If Tyrion is her half-brother and becomes dragonrider he has a very good chance of entering into a political marriage with her. Any future dragonrider has.

Aegon might die or not (he doesn't have to be killed to be deposed - Dany could have him castrated and maimed like Theon or that bastard son of Dalton Greyjoy was after the Dance; there is also the chance of his stepping down voluntarily, or him joining the NW) but I doubt his children will necessarily be born by the time he is deposed. But by the time the series ends Arianne (or whoever Aegon marries) might have given birth to a child. That could conveniently become Dany's heir if she lacks heirs of her own.

2 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Dany never thinks ahead. That stayed true through all the books. Not even for two weeks. Why do you assumer her to think about which war she'll cause in fifty years?

George also doesn't think ahead that far. Nobody will no or care what happens ten years or fifty years after the end of the series. And we'll have pretty much no idea what all those children will do in their actual lives as adults.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

George also doesn't think ahead that far. Nobody will no or care what happens ten years or fifty years after the end of the series. And we'll have pretty much no idea what all those children will do in their actual lives as adults.

Cat does. Robb does. Tywin does. Stannis does. Renly does. Every single halfway responsible noble in an inheritance-based government does.

[Lord Varys]

25 minutes ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Cat does. Robb does. Tywin does. Stannis does. Renly does. Every single halfway responsible noble in an inheritance-based government does.

You misunderstood me. I know that the characters in the series usually think about their heirs. But I meant that this whole thing is an irrelevant question because whoever ends up on the Iron Throne (say, either Dany or Jon or both - which seems to be the most likeliest scenario) will be still in his/her mid-teens and thus have no reason to think that he/she has to have heirs of his/her own body soon. That could be settled in the next decades this or that way. If Dany and Jon Snow co-rule Westeros then they would be each other's heirs, and if Tyrion's still in the mix he could be an heir presumptive, too.

But nobody will talk about moot stuff like that. The series will end presumably end with a victory over the Others and the restoration of certain noble lines that had been deposed during the series (the Starks and Targaryens). Who the hell will succeed the survivors of the series we'll never know unless we get some sort of history book set a hundred years in the future or something like that.

The survivors will have their entire lives ahead of them, after all.

And if we compare the final war and climax of the series to the Conquest then there will be no immediate heirs to the survivors/victors. After all, we know that Prince Aenys was only born in 7 AC. The Conqueror and his sisters might have had some obscure Velaryon cousin as heir presumptive but we have actually no idea if anyone ever cared to install anyone as such.

And neither might whoever rules Westeros in the end. And the same should go for Winterfell. We'll not know who is going to succeed Rickon or Sansa as next ruler of Winterfell.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

It does become important as soon as the only viable candidate for the IT (as far as she knows) won't ever have any heirs because she assumes herself to be infertile.

 

Robb was barely sixteen when Cat pushed him towards marriage and children. He even had some relatives left, nevertheless getting some cubs into Jeyne was the second-highest priority after keeping the North itself standing. And he was a healthy young man without any cause to doubt his fertility.

[lojzelote]

13 minutes ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Cat does. Robb does. Tywin does. Stannis does. Renly does. Every single halfway responsible noble in an inheritance-based government does.

A lot of good it brought to them. How is that line? "The best laid plans of mice and men..."

Anyhow, I'm not sure I'd bring Robb and Stannis as especially mindfull of the future of their dynasty.

Robb didn't really stop to think about what it meant leaving Sansa (and Arya, as far as he knew) in the Lannister hands. He could have at least attempted to get them back when the news of Bran's and Rickon's death came. And even after Sansa's marriage, he could have made an inquiry about Arya, but he never did, apparently. He also wasn't thinking way ahead when he was marrying Jeyne Westerling, I bet.

As for Stannis, it appears he will be the guy responsible for the elimination of Steffon Baratheon's branch of the family: kept silent about Cersei's treachery, leaving Robert at her mercy, check, killed Renly with the help of Mel's magic, check, can't bother to father a son on his wife, check, only Davos' timely intervention stopped him from burning alive Robert's only publicly acknowledged bastard, resulting in Edric leaving Westeros, possibly forever, check. His only heir is his young disfigured daughter (which is not a thrilling prospect for the majority of the Seven Kingdoms, I'm sure) TV SHOW SPOILERS

whom he ends up burning, check

. He's done almost as much work at destructing House Baratheon as Cersei Lannister. Quite an impressive feat, if you ask me.

Anyway, fo Dany thinking of an heir at this point of putting the cart in front of the horse. An heir for what kingdom? During her stay in Slaver's Bay, invading Westeros had been a pipe dream, something she will do one day in the distant future (if ever). She seriously returns to the notion only in the very last chapter of ADwD, and we don't even know what information she will have once she truly turns west - maybe she will indeed believe that Aegon is Rhaegar's son, maybe she will meet Tyrion and find out he is her half-brother (if A+J=T is correct), maybe she will reasonably conclude there must be some (distant) Targaryen relations - after all, she has met Quentyn Martell and Brown Ben Plumm.