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Re-reading AGOT


Ser Gareth

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I've just started re-reading AGOT (for the umpteenth time, not sure why I do it to myself!  Although it's been a long time since I read AGOT in its entirety.  Most of my re-reads recently have been AFFC or ADWD) again.  I'm reading it on the Kindle so it's possible that some of the spellings have been corrupted during that migration.  I don't have a physical copy of AGOT anymore to check against.  I'm not that far into it but a few things stand out to me that I didn't necessarily see before.

Firstly GRRM claiming himself to be a gardener rings a bit hollow when you start to see foreshadowing everywhere.  Fair play to him as well because you can see how much he has improved as a writer as the series has gone on.  It's not that AGOT is badly written but it's certainly more basic in language and structure than the later novel.

Anyway, a couple of things have already stood out to me:

The Isle of Faces - mentioned in two POV's very early on.  It gets mentioned a little bit elsewhere in the series but for it to be mentioned quite prominently in the opening POV chapters of two characters?  I believe the Isle of Faces is going to play a major part at some point in the series.

Gared - Reading back this quite forced and clumsy.  Fourth deserter that year (although it doesn't specify why the others deserted).  Being a veteran of the Watch I genuinely don't believe he'd go half mad with fear, find a way over the walls whilst intentionally evading his brothers and then go on the run.  Unless the Others have some kind of spell where they drive their victims to complete insanity he would surely have gone back to Castle Black and raised the alarm.  Maybe from there he would have gone AWOL if told to go back out ranging again.  As a side point I always thought it would be very easy for a Ranger of the Night's Watch to desert, especially a common man.

Direwolves - Similar with the Direwolves.  I think Eddard accepts his kids can have these way too easily.  These things grow to monsterous sizes.  I appreciate it's a different era but I don't know many parents would tell a 7 year old they could keep a wolf cub to adulthood as long as they trained it themselves, let alone a Direwolf cub.

Tyrion's acrobatics - It is explained finally in ADWD (again demonstrating that GRRM isn't quite the gardener as he tells us all he is!) but it doesn't half seem out of place in AGOT.  Especially as it's never really mentioned again in the following two books either.

Catelyn - I'd forgotten how arrogant and condescending she was.  I don't know whether it's by design but even reading these early chapters, she has an awful lot in common with Cersei.  Arrogant, condescending and always believing herself to be right.  Obviously she lacks the general malice and cruelty of Cersei but the only other major difference I can see is Cersei refuses to play ball and rebels against everything where Catelyn continually plays the martyr.  We also see with her treatment of Jon that she can be spiteful and malicious.  Makes you wonder what she would have turned out like if she hadn't married the honourable Ned Stark.  Just look at her sister.  And of course look at Lady Stoneheart.  Makes you wonder whether these parallels of personality with Cersei are intentional.

Theon & Jeyne Poole - Reading back on those early chapters where these two appear makes you shudder when you consider their future!

 

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I'm doing an AGOT reread right now too and I agree about the Catelyn/Cersei parallel. The conversation between Ned and Catelyn (before he leaves Winterfell) and the one between Cersei and Jaime (that Bran overhears) are quite similar : Cat and Cersei are trying to convince Ned/Jaime that they must prepare themselves to fight house Lannister/Stark, rather angrily in a "don't you see the danger this will put us in if you don't"way, tell them they should be the Hand, and both Ned and Jaime's responses are basically "nah, I just want a simple life". But in both cases something comes up and the men take actions that play a part in starting the war of the five kings : Ned decides to go to King's Landing, Jaime pushes Bran out of the window.

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I keep rereading the entire series. As I find things I hadn't noticed before, I post them here. Since a lot of others do to it's a pretty cool thread. 

ETA

As to your note about all the foreshadowing, how about this line...

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Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name. 

 

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14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name.

 

That's brilliant and I'd never noticed that before.  It certainly does open up the question though as to whether GRRM really does take this gardening approach.  I guess it's chicken and the egg.  Theon was never going to be a POV character.  Maybe when GRRM decided to go down the whole Reek path he saw that earlier line he'd written about Hodor and decided to ran with it.  Or maybe he simply planned it all from the very beginning.

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17 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

I'm doing an AGOT reread right now too and I agree about the Catelyn/Cersei parallel. The conversation between Ned and Catelyn (before he leaves Winterfell) and the one between Cersei and Jaime (that Bran overhears) are quite similar : Cat and Cersei are trying to convince Ned/Jaime that they must prepare themselves to fight house Lannister/Stark, rather angrily in a "don't you see the danger this will put us in if you don't"way, tell them they should be the Hand, and both Ned and Jaime's responses are basically "nah, I just want a simple life". But in both cases something comes up and the men take actions that play a part in starting the war of the five kings : Ned decides to go to King's Landing, Jaime pushes Bran out of the window.

They're both extremely ambitious, full of themselves, irrational and paranoid.  Understandable somewhat in Cersei because she has every reason to be paranoid (because she has a very important secret to keep).

When you look at those first three books Catelyn's actions basically lead to the conflict, because Littlefinger manipulates her so easily.  Her kidnapping Tyrion sets the whole thing off at a pace that Eddard cannot cope with.

Another thing I now find odd is why Stannis fled King's Landing when Arryn died.  The sensible answer would be he feared for his well being but the Stannis we know from later books wouldn't have ran.  Indeed duty would have made him confront Robert and reveal his findings to him.

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After Rereading Bran's second chapter recently I was surprised about how close his relationship with birds are. 
Its like he friends with all the different birds in the castle- from crows to owls. He regularly feeds them, and enjoys climbing the walls and chilling up high with them. 

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He liked how it felt too, pulling himself up a wall stone by stone, fingers and toes digging hard into the small crevices between. He always took off his boots and went barefoot when he climbed; it made him feel as if he had four hands instead of two. He liked the deep, sweet ache it left in the muscles afterward. He liked the way the air tasted way up high, sweet and cold as a winter peach. He liked the birds: the crows in the broken tower, the tiny little sparrows that nested in cracks between the stones, the ancient owl that slept in the dusty loft above the old armory. Bran knew them all.

I thought this chapter was particularly interesting. 

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When he got out from under it and scrambled up near the sky, Bran could see all of Winterfell in a glance. He liked the way it looked, spread out beneath him, only birds wheeling over his head while all the life of the castle went on below. Bran could perch for hours among the shapeless, rain-worn gargoyles that brooded over the First Keep, watching it all: the men drilling with wood and steel in the yard, the cooks tending their vegetables in the glass garden, restless dogs running back and forth in the kennels, the silence of the godswood, the girls gossiping beside the washing well. It made him feel like he was lord of the castle, in a way even Robb would never know.

I feel this is really setting up for the next chapter where he has to fly or die and sees the whole word and I totally missed it the first time. No wonder he could fly, he's been preparing for it since he could crawl xD
I mean.... they even say Bran is "perching"- which is typically a verb performed only by birds. 

I also find it interesting that the very first sentence in the entire series that mentions the word crow is. Seems like a warning the might be more applicable to just climbing walls. 

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Old Nan told him a story about a bad little boy who climbed too high and was struck down by lightning, and how afterward the crows came to peck out his eyes. 

 

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8 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

That's brilliant and I'd never noticed that before.  It certainly does open up the question though as to whether GRRM really does take this gardening approach.  I guess it's chicken and the egg.  Theon was never going to be a POV character.  Maybe when GRRM decided to go down the whole Reek path he saw that earlier line he'd written about Hodor and decided to ran with it.  Or maybe he simply planned it all from the very beginning.

Why do you say that?

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From GRRM's original outline of ASOIAF:

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As you know, I don't outline my novels. I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it. I do, however, have some strong notions as to the overall structure of the story I'm telling, and the eventual fate of many of the principle characters in the drama.

He doesn't outline but he has certain things plotted out for the future.

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I've reread Dany's first two chapters and it strikes me that she comes across as much more intelligent than in ADWD. She's perceptive about Illyrio (mistrusts him, sees that he hides a smile when Viserys talks about dueling the kingslayer) , takes his speech about the people of Westeros waiting for their true king with a grain of salt, is able to properly perform her part in a Dothraki wedding. . . 

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On 4/30/2016 at 3:09 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name.

I guess it's funny because his name is actually Walder?

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1 hour ago, Greg B said:

I guess it's funny because his name is actually Walder?

His name is actually Walder, but I think they're referring to Theon's Reek chapters where he's been partially brainwashed with his new identity and "name".  Reek, Reek, it rhymes with weak...

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22 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

I've reread Dany's first two chapters and it strikes me that she comes across as much more intelligent than in ADWD. She's perceptive about Illyrio (mistrusts him, sees that he hides a smile when Viserys talks about dueling the kingslayer) , takes his speech about the people of Westeros waiting for their true king with a grain of salt, is able to properly perform her part in a Dothraki wedding. . . 

That's because she's our eyes and ears for what Illyrio is really up to. 

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