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Aerion Brightflame was a good fighter


Valens

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20 hours ago, Valens said:

Yes, Daemon the first, to distinguish him from Blackfyre. Where is the problem, son?

 

19 hours ago, The Snow Bear said:

Well des Daemon caused the citywatch to be called Gold cloaks by givind them said cloaks. But that was what, sixty years before the events of Dunk and Egg?

And I can't recall either Aerion or Dunk serving in the city watch.

Lastly, Deamon the first would imo mean that he was a king. I'd go with Daemon the rogue prince, or just prince Daemon.

To the op I'm with Tom Cruise

10 hours ago, Leonardo said:

And gave up the crown later on... Daemon the first implies he sat the Iron Throne at one point. He was barely ever a king

If we speak of that Daemon, then actually he does technically become a king as recognized by the Blacks. King consort, or a king in equal standing to his wife his faction would have styled him as a legitimate monarch throughout the Dance. The thing is though that since Aegon the Second's reign was the legitimized one, with him succeeded by his nephew Aegon the Third, there is no "Daemon the First". If there was a new king named "Daemon" then HE would be "Daemon the First" rather than the "Second. So... all of you guys are technically right.

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On 2.5.2016 at 8:48 AM, Minstral said:

 

If we speak of that Daemon, then actually he does technically become a king as recognized by the Blacks. King consort, or a king in equal standing to his wife his faction would have styled him as a legitimate monarch throughout the Dance. The thing is though that since Aegon the Second's reign was the legitimized one, with him succeeded by his nephew Aegon the Third, there is no "Daemon the First". If there was a new king named "Daemon" then HE would be "Daemon the First" rather than the "Second. So... all of you guys are technically right.

Well, he was king consort, what equals prince (husband) in most actual monarchies.

But still if Daemon Blackfyre would have won he'd been called Daemon I (imo even with another Dance-outcome)

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  • 2 months later...

Aerion was atleast a fairly good fighter. To be able to severely injury Dunk is definitely not easy when we consider Dunk's sheer amount of power despite a less than ideal fightning technic. Being Aerion young during the Tourney of Ashford he could have became one of the best fighters of his generation. That's why Maekar, a warrior himself, had great hopes for Aerion, specially after the disappointment that Daeron was. 

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On 5/1/2016 at 5:15 PM, WilliamWesterosiWallace said:

Ever since she ordered the murder of every man over twelve in a conquered city, or that one time when she nailed 163 (possibly innocent) Meereenese noblemen on posts and felt good about it, or maybe even when she watched her (cunt of a) brother get murdered and felt all the emotions a rock would display after being hit by the autumn breeze... maybe since then, maybe before that. Who knows.

Those are good examples of cruelty and pragmatism. When you find one for madness, let be sure to let us know.

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On April 30, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Valens said:

Yeah...but they were called Gold Cloaks under Daemon the first, he gave them those cloaks...and himself. Btw, Aerion is also said to have fought well in the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. So, he was no coward for sure. Just crazy, vain and temperamental.

The Kingsguard were never called goldcloaks and never wore gold cloaks.

 

Daemon Targaryen commanded the city watch and caused THEM to be called goldcloaks after he gave all of them gold cloaks to wear.

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Dunc was a lousy jouster. Taking him off the horse was a big advantage that he got to start off with. But even with this advantage, Duncan overcame him with street fighting techniques, basically.

I can't argue that's Aerion wasn't the best warrior of Maekar's sons, though. Unless I'm forgetting one.

But I don't think his battle during the trial of seven was anything for him to brag about.

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4 hours ago, Ser Hyle said:

Those are good examples of cruelty and pragmatism. When you find one for madness, let be sure to let us know.

Hallucinations in the house of the undying? If someone walked up to you and told you that story, what would your impression be? Or just walking into a giant funeral pyre? Extreme cruelty is also a symptom of sociopathy, which I think most of us would agree falls under "madness."

I don't know if dany is "mad" but his examples were fine.

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9 hours ago, Ser Hyle said:

Those are good examples of cruelty and pragmatism. When you find one for madness, let be sure to let us know.

- Ignoring your brother's death;

- Killing children;

- Murdering innocents;

Those are absolutely the traces of a sane person.

Her father burned people alive, and he was mad. She massacres an entire city (ONLY the males, I have to point out) and then crucifies 163 people in a Plaza and is completely sane, just "cruel"!? 

(Show only: she also raped Hizdahr, and there is no downplaying it: she murdered a man by dragonflame in front of Hizdahr, then told him he'd been chosen for a marriage. Healthy, sane behavior.)

I classify that as insane, and I believe anyone who didn't mourn the only other person they knew on the entire planet that shared their blood, and commanded the genocide of innocents would also be called insane. 

By comparison, Stannis burns cannibalists and traitors for religious reasons. Now that is cruel; he could've hanged/beheaded them. What Dany did is a fit of insanity worthy of Maegor the Cruel.

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18 hours ago, Kienn said:

The Kingsguard were never called goldcloaks and never wore gold cloaks.

 

Daemon Targaryen commanded the city watch and caused THEM to be called goldcloaks after he gave all of them gold cloaks to wear.

City Watch...right. Sometimes they are easy to mix up. Both are a sort of "police" in King's Landing. Only City Watch IS the police, while Kingsguard is...as the name says, king's guard. More like a military.

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On 7/28/2016 at 4:27 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

Hallucinations in the house of the undying? If someone walked up to you and told you that story, what would your impression be? Or just walking into a giant funeral pyre? Extreme cruelty is also a symptom of sociopathy, which I think most of us would agree falls under "madness."

I don't know if dany is "mad" but his examples were fine.

I thought it was pretty clear that the hallucinations were brought on by the HotU and not a product of her own mental state - anyone would have hallucinations in her position. What you're saying is akin to accusing someone of insanity because they dropped acid once.

Walking into a giant funeral pyre would be totally insane if that person thought he/she would be unharmed, but was harmed. She believed she would be unharmed and she was correct. Therefore, this is not an example of insanity.

If sociopathy was akin to madness (and it's far from certain she's a sociopath), it would be an injustice for sociopaths like Ted Bundy to stand trial and face sentencing as if they were of sound mind. Sociopaths are aware of the difference between right and wrong, cause and effect. They are not insane.

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On 7/28/2016 at 9:35 PM, WilliamWesterosiWallace said:

- Ignoring your brother's death;

- Killing children;

- Murdering innocents;

Those are absolutely the traces of a sane person.

Her father burned people alive, and he was mad. She massacres an entire city (ONLY the males, I have to point out) and then crucifies 163 people in a Plaza and is completely sane, just "cruel"!? 

(Show only: she also raped Hizdahr, and there is no downplaying it: she murdered a man by dragonflame in front of Hizdahr, then told him he'd been chosen for a marriage. Healthy, sane behavior.)

I classify that as insane, and I believe anyone who didn't mourn the only other person they knew on the entire planet that shared their blood, and commanded the genocide of innocents would also be called insane. 

By comparison, Stannis burns cannibalists and traitors for religious reasons. Now that is cruel; he could've hanged/beheaded them. What Dany did is a fit of insanity worthy of Maegor the Cruel.

She did not ignore her brother's death. There are passages in later books where she laments losing him. She even names one of her dragons after him. It's also arguable that a teenage girl being happy that her sexually and mentally abusive older brother who literally sold her to someone else for his own gain is murdered is indeed quite a sane and reasonable reaction.

Her father burned people alive, not for pragmatic reasons, but due to unreasonable paranoia and delusional thoughts. That is the difference you're missing. Dany's acts of cruelty were not driven by delusions or paranoia or voices in her head. She did these things because she believed she needed to as a leader and/or she believed it was justice. 163 masters were crucified because the masters crucified 163 children.

Nothing that you put forth is an example of madness.

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1 hour ago, Ser Hyle said:

I thought it was pretty clear that the hallucinations were brought on by the HotU and not a product of her own mental state - anyone would have hallucinations in her position. What you're saying is akin to accusing someone of insanity because they dropped acid once.

Walking into a giant funeral pyre would be totally insane if that person thought he/she would be unharmed, but was harmed. She believed she would be unharmed and she was correct. Therefore, this is not an example of insanity.

If sociopathy was akin to madness (and it's far from certain she's a sociopath), it would be an injustice for sociopaths like Ted Bundy to stand trial and face sentencing as if they were of sound mind. Sociopaths are aware of the difference between right and wrong, cause and effect. They are not insane.

It was drinking the Shade of the Evening, you're right, its quite clear. People can think poorly of Dany, but its ridiculous when they choose to ignore the text in order to paint a worse picture of her. If they're looking for a character who demonstrated actual sociopathic behavior may I suggest Cersei's POVs..

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16 hours ago, Ser Hyle said:

She did not ignore her brother's death. There are passages in later books where she laments losing him. She even names one of her dragons after him. It's also arguable that a teenage girl being happy that her sexually and mentally abusive older brother who literally sold her to someone else for his own gain is murdered is indeed quite a sane and reasonable reaction.

She was IN THE ROOM where her brother was FRIED ALIVE WITH MOLTEN GOLD. And she did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I don't care if he was violent and volatile, he was her only family! Daenerys watched in silence as the Targaryen line was EXTINCT! (She can't pass her name on, because Middle Ages). And then she had the nerve to say "he was no dragon" to the man who protected her for more than five years, fleeing everything and everyone!

Her father burned people alive, not for pragmatic reasons, but due to unreasonable paranoia and delusional thoughts. That is the difference you're missing. Dany's acts of cruelty were not driven by delusions or paranoia or voices in her head. She did these things because she believed she needed to as a leader and/or she believed it was justice. 163 masters were crucified because the masters crucified 163 children.

Nothing that you put forth is an example of madness.

What about the genocide in Astapor? What about crucifying 163 people? Forget the reasons - if she wanted to condemn someone, at least do it in a just way. She essentially went into Meereen, crucified 163 congressmen, and then sat on the President's chair and said "Love me, Meereen! Look, I'll even marry a congressman!" She killed random people, "avenging" the children without even knowing if the child killers were in the crosses. And, not only did she not know if they were there, she did not care either! She just f***ing killed 163 random people, mere days after she commited GENOCIDE in a city! GENOCIDE! How can that not be a sing of cruelty, of madness beyond repair? Maegor killed the Poor Fellows and the Warrior's Sons. That was a form of genocide, and that was sadness and cruelty. I accuse Dany of doing the same in Astapor, and then killing randoms in Meereen. Thank god she isn't completely lost yet, she might've killed the sons of the pyramids that served her wine (she might kill them still, if she gets to Meereen again).

 

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On 8/3/2016 at 2:23 PM, Ser Hyle said:

I thought it was pretty clear that the hallucinations were brought on by the HotU and not a product of her own mental state - anyone would have hallucinations in her position. What you're saying is akin to accusing someone of insanity because they dropped acid once.

Walking into a giant funeral pyre would be totally insane if that person thought he/she would be unharmed, but was harmed. She believed she would be unharmed and she was correct. Therefore, this is not an example of insanity.

If sociopathy was akin to madness (and it's far from certain she's a sociopath), it would be an injustice for sociopaths like Ted Bundy to stand trial and face sentencing as if they were of sound mind. Sociopaths are aware of the difference between right and wrong, cause and effect. They are not insane.

None of that matters because *waves hands*

Ok gotcha. On one hand, it doesn't really matter what the reader knows. To basically all outside viewers in world, she's done a lot of stuff that wouldn't make you question her sanity, but deny it outright. But more to the point, I didn't specify "insanity". I said madness. Knowing the difference between right and wrong but doing it anyway doesn't mean you're not mad. If anything it strengthens the argument you are mad. Dany herself had doubts about walking into the pyre. 

“They thought her mad, Dany realized. Perhaps she was. She would know soon enough. If I look back I am lost.”

Walking into a giant fire not knowing if you're gonna die? Yeah that's mad.

Watching your brother get burned to death and feeling nothing? Complete lack of emotion is a pillar of sociopathy. 

Sociopathy can get you committed to a mental institution, at least here in the US. If that isn't a baseline for "crazy" or "madness", I don't know what is. She's exhibited plenty of behavior that would get her committed in the US, and much more of her behavior would likely get her labeled a witch or crazy in the medieval type setting the books are in. 

And to stress it yet again, I don't know if she's crazy (i'll bold it for you this time so you don't miss it again), but she's exhibited plenty of behavior that could easily get her that label.

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5 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

None of that matters because *waves hands*

Ok gotcha. On one hand, it doesn't really matter what the reader knows. To basically all outside viewers in world, she's done a lot of stuff that wouldn't make you question her sanity, but deny it outright. But more to the point, I didn't specify "insanity". I said madness. Knowing the difference between right and wrong but doing it anyway doesn't mean you're not mad. If anything it strengthens the argument you are mad. Dany herself had doubts about walking into the pyre. 

“They thought her mad, Dany realized. Perhaps she was. She would know soon enough. If I look back I am lost.”

Walking into a giant fire not knowing if you're gonna die? Yeah that's mad.

Watching your brother get burned to death and feeling nothing? Complete lack of emotion is a pillar of sociopathy. 

Sociopathy can get you committed to a mental institution, at least here in the US. If that isn't a baseline for "crazy" or "madness", I don't know what is. She's exhibited plenty of behavior that would get her committed in the US, and much more of her behavior would likely get her labeled a witch or crazy in the medieval type setting the books are in. 

And to stress it yet again, I don't know if she's crazy (i'll bold it for you this time so you don't miss it again), but she's exhibited plenty of behavior that could easily get her that label.

It was signed.

William 'Westerosi' Wallace

Trueborn Lord of Scotsland.

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