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Why and Where does the Dany/Jon love theory com from?


norwaywolf123

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On 5/19/2017 at 5:21 PM, purple-eyes said:

 

On 5/4/2016 at 0:42 AM, IceFire125 said:

Aegon married Visenya for duty, Rhaenys for love.

Rhaegar married Elia for duty, Lyanna for love.

Jon will marry Dany for duty, Arya for love.

^__^

 

 

 

This! :thumbsup:

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I really don't care about care about these two getting together. But, how is that more cliche than Jon being a secret targ? And I really don't have a problem with the incest angle, it's not like they knew each other or look like each other. 

Although, I don't really see Jon as a king, I doubt he would want to be king. So, I doubt they will get together. And i see them as allies but if he's legitimate then he better stay far away from the crown.

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16 hours ago, BeeStark said:

This! :thumbsup:

Why? Jon and Arya are both followers of the old gods and this is against the old gods religion. I can see maybe Jon not having to follow this law because he is a Targaryen defendant, but not for Arya. This is why it makes sense for Jon and Daenerys to get together. As soon as they see each other they are going to be attracted to each other. They have had all of the same experiences as well, only one in Essos and one in Westeros. 

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9 hours ago, Crona said:

I really don't care about care about these two getting together. But, how is that more cliche than Jon being a secret targ? And I really don't have a problem with the incest angle, it's not like they knew each other or look like each other. 

Although, I don't really see Jon as a king, I doubt he would want to be king. So, I doubt they will get together. And i see them as allies but if he's legitimate then he better stay far away from the crown.

Jon being a Targagryen is not cliche. Sometimes you have to remember that these books were started 40 years ago and it certainly was not cliche then even if it seems cliche now. 

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Why not?    They mirror one another, each running a gauntlet against the world whilst they endeavor to become a savior to that world.  She'll gladly shed the conquerer role if there's a deeper need when she gets to the west;   She'll be the true knight working to salvage humanity and Jon will recognize that.   If he's alive to join forces he will.   Their blood connection is the cherry on top, and I sort of hope they never even become aware of it, so that Jon can get the throne by earning it, in the process confirming the awesomeness of their bloodline.  

But also, whatever happens happens.   This is just a future we've been given to ponder; it could be easily snatched back from us and morphed into something else entirely, like each of them could be the general for their chosen Fire and Ice element in the cheesy final battle of that fever dream vision.

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2 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Why not?    They mirror one another, each running a gauntlet against the world whilst they endeavor to become a savior to that world.  She'll gladly shed the conquerer role if there's a deeper need when she gets to the west;   She'll be the true knight working to salvage humanity and Jon will recognize that.   If he's alive to join forces he will.   Their blood connection is the cherry on top, and I sort of hope they never even become aware of it, so that Jon can get the throne by earning it, in the process confirming the awesomeness of their bloodline.  

But also, whatever happens happens.   This is just a future we've been given to ponder; it could be easily snatched back from us and morphed into something else entirely, like each of them could be the general for their chosen Fire and Ice element in the cheesy final battle of that fever dream vision.

Heroes don't crucify people... that's no way to go about saving the world.

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8 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

Jon being a Targagryen is not cliche. Sometimes you have to remember that these books were started 40 years ago and it certainly was not cliche then even if it seems cliche now. 

Off the top of my head, Aragon from Lord of the Rings, and I'm pretty sure it's probably as old as this or older. A fairly recent one is Naruto (not technically a prince, but still bloodlines)

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Obviously they don't even need to love each other to form a marriage alliance, but I'm not sure what Daenerys would gain from marriage to Jon that she doesn't already have. Their philosophical/ethical outlooks, in my eyes, are incompatible. They both are leaders and both have a soft spot for the defenseless... and thankfully so because a lot of defenseless people in Westeros (and maybe the world) are going to need their help for the final battle.

But after those two similarities their personal values fork. If Daenerys resorts to traditional Targaryen methodology ("fire and blood") or any of the things she's learned in Essos (e.g., nailing people to posts) he would be repulsed. Jon defied Stannis to be merciful to who he thought was Mace Rayder, etc. Daenerys might find his methods of making peace repulsive, as she's tried that route herself and was ultimately dissatisfied with it.

And, my own personal observation, is that their ship is just too neatly packaged. Exotic, beautiful dragon queen and handsome, honorable warrior makes too much sense. It's been written a thousand times before, and it doesn't match the crapsack world GRRM has built. That Jon and Daenerys are going to be drawn to each other or even involved seems to be expected by most readers with varying opinions. My personal  hypothesis is GRRM is setting up this expectation in order to smash it once it seems imminent. Not so that he can be mean, like so many people seem to think.  But instead to demonstrate (not for the first time) that attraction and "true" love are very not enough to make a relationship work.

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11 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Heroes don't crucify people... that's no way to go about saving the world.

Indeed, she could have actually found out who actually was to blame and hold those people accountable.

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2 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

A political marriage between Jon and Dany makes sense and is highly likely. Jon needs Dany's dragons. Dany needs an alliance with one of the Great Houses of Westeros.

The only people I can see Jon having a romantic marriage with is Val or Arya.

Does it, though? I mean, it makes sense as far as how the narrative is intentionally leading us to this conclusion. But isn't there a lot of flaws in that?

  1. She's already married and a popular theory is that the Shavepate tried to poison her, not her husband.
  2. If Jon's legitimized, then he's Targaryen, not a Stark.
    • Jon's already declined being legitimized into Lord of Winterfell once. I don't know why he would accept it now.
  3. There are Starks with better claims than a legitimized Jon
    • People assume Bran is going to just chill with Bloodraven the rest of the books, but we don't know that for sure. And we don't know for a fact that he's removed from the political arena just because he's unlocked his power.
    • Rickon; whereever he may be.
    • Sansa has the better claim. Her father was Lord of Winterfell; Jon's mother was a sister of Eddard.
  4. Sweetrobin has a larger, less compromised army but people don't like imagining Daenerys with a sickly child I guess.
    • Let's not forget Charles II of Spain also married though he was extremely physically, mentally, and emotionally disabled.
  5. Aegon the Conqueror won the North without bloodshed or marriage pacts in the past. There's no reason to believe they won't bend the knee again in the face of dragons.
  6. If her dragons swoop in and destroy the Others, that'd be reason enough for the North as a whole to want to side with her.

Conclusion: There are better marriage pacts available to Daenerys in Westeros. Marrying Jon would not give her anything she couldn't gain for herself. There are more problems with a political marriage than many care to admit.

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On 6/2/2017 at 10:24 AM, Sea Dragon said:

Why? Jon and Arya are both followers of the old gods and this is against the old gods religion. I can see maybe Jon not having to follow this law because he is a Targaryen defendant, but not for Arya. This is why it makes sense for Jon and Daenerys to get together. As soon as they see each other they are going to be attracted to each other. They have had all of the same experiences as well, only one in Essos and one in Westeros. 

Well, Arya's god now is the God of Death. She may still hold on to most of the North's traditions but when it comes down to things, she see's her home in Winterfell and with Jon (and Jon thinks the same). He is the only one she believes will accept her for who she is, Old god's be damned. Of course, both Jon and Arya will be conflicted about this issue but then there is the R+L=J theory. Cousins marrying is acceptable in the North

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Main characters don't always end up together, but it happens enough times that readers are conditioned to expect it. And if romantic plots are going to be fairly prominent, I'd say it's probably necessary for the love interest to have decent amount of "screen" time and a stake in the main plot. A character with a similar level of importance to the story is the obvious choice here.

As for Dany and Jon, I'd agree that Jon doesn't really seem her type, at least on a sexual level anyway, but I have to laugh when people say the the same of Jon. If we take Ygritte as a model of Jon's type, he's likes 'em strong-willed, self sufficient, and experienced. Dany definitely fits into that.

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12 hours ago, BeeStark said:

Well, Arya's god now is the God of Death. She may still hold on to most of the North's traditions but when it comes down to things, she see's her home in Winterfell and with Jon (and Jon thinks the same). He is the only one she believes will accept her for who she is, Old god's be damned. Of course, both Jon and Arya will be conflicted about this issue but then there is the R+L=J theory. Cousins marrying is acceptable in the North

I don't know about this. I guess if you are one of the readers that thinks Arya has no chance in coming back as a human instead of a faceless man assassin, then maybe? As much as most of Arya and her story bore me to death sometimes, it does not seem as though she will be stuck in the house of black and white. Arya will become a Stark again and the Starks follow the old gods. Besides, even if Arya is a god of death follower, then it is pretty clear that Jon still follows the old gods.

Which Stark cousin married each other? I know there was a cousin once removed that was married. Are there others closer related ones? I have not read the big World book and that is where I read another poster say the cousins once removed marriage. My apologies if I missed one. I agree with the many others in the forum who explain that Jon and Arya think of each other as siblings. You can't change that.

This is also why Jon and Danaerys makes more sense. They never grew up together as siblings so there is not issue with that. They are pretty much strangers to each other.

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