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Why and Where does the Dany/Jon love theory com from?


norwaywolf123

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15 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

I don't know about this. I guess if you are one of the readers that thinks Arya has no chance in coming back as a human instead of a faceless man assassin, then maybe? As much as most of Arya and her story bore me to death sometimes, it does not seem as though she will be stuck in the house of black and white. Arya will become a Stark again and the Starks follow the old gods. Besides, even if Arya is a god of death follower, then it is pretty clear that Jon still follows the old gods.

Which Stark cousin married each other? I know there was a cousin once removed that was married. Are there others closer related ones? I have not read the big World book and that is where I read another poster say the cousins once removed marriage. My apologies if I missed one. I agree with the many others in the forum who explain that Jon and Arya think of each other as siblings. You can't change that.

This is also why Jon and Danaerys makes more sense. They never grew up together as siblings so there is not issue with that. They are pretty much strangers to each other.

Ned's parents were first cousins, Rickard and Lyarra. 

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On 5/1/2016 at 11:50 AM, norwaywolf123 said:
  1. They interpret the House of the Undying prophecy in a specific way. Dany sees a blue rose growing out of the Wall that fills the air with "sweetness," and a lot of people think this flower symbolizes Jon and the "sweetness" means that she and Jon will fall in love. Less noticed is that sweetness and sweet smells are repeatedly used as anegative in the story in general and for Dany in particular.

I'm not saying GRRM won't have them meet cute, because anything is possible. I just don't much see the rationale for it, and if it does happen, I don't see it ending well. Jon is nothing like the dangerous, exciting "bad boys" Dany usually goes for, and I think Jon would be pretty contemptuous of a lot of what Dany's doing and her attitude in general.

You're probably right, too obvious, but it's a nice political marriage for Westeros.  Anyway - check the full phrase from the House of Undying visions:  A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . 

Doubt the use of the word bride there was accidental, but there it is. Apologies if this is redundant, previously mentioned.

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I don't think Jon and Dany will have a romantic relationship in the books, not so much because of who they are as people, but rather because of how the time line would work out. Most romances in this series take several books to come to fruition (ex. Jon and Ygritte meet in ACOK and become intimate in ASOS, Dany meets Daario in ASOS but doesn't accept his advances until ADWD, Same meets Gilly in ACOK, but the two are primarily friends until AFFC). Then you have to take into account how long it takes for characters to travel from one place to another. Like as not, Dany's trek west will probably take all of TWOW, and I don't necessarily see Jon being resurrected early on in the book. Unless George decides to write eight books instead of seven, I can't see how there would be enough time to build a satisfying relationship between the two, romantic or otherwise. If anything, I think Jon's interactions with Val indicate that she'll likely be his love interest in TWOW. (I also suspect that Val was written out of the show in order to make room for a Jon/Dany romance, unfortunately).

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I don't know why people ate believing GRRM that he will finish this story in two books ...eight books is been a possibility ever since the chapters were moved from ADWd

Anyone who is thinking val as major enough to be end game is deluding themselves ..fortunately we dont have to wait for TDOS or 8th book but we will see what happens with this in TWoW

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Daenerys and Jon are the most important characters, male and female, young and same age. In most stories you would expect them to marry and live happily thereafter. Besides, they are rather complementary and working together they would form a terrific team. So love theories are to be expected. But I don't think it is the kind of fate GRRM planed for them.

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Willas Tyrell is oddly still unwed while all of his younger siblings have already married(Loras to the KG). Willas Tyrell is the heir to the kingdom with the largest food supply. Dany has a large army and dragons to feed. Logically it makes the most sense for Dany to marry Willas for a number of reasons but the main one being food. Food will be worth more then gold during winter while Westeros is at war with itself.

 Willas maybe a willing consort and not try to steal any power away from Dany while Dany's other options such as Euron and (f)aegon will both want to be King in their own right. Out of those three and Jon I think Dany would be attracted to Euron the most so if he can somehow conquer the Reach I don't see Dany turning him down which is why I think the Red Priest is worried about him.

Jon has other problems but if he does take a lover/wife I believe it will be Val as she is the only single female in his proximity that he has any sort of relationship with. I don't see him caring about whats going on down South any time soon unless they are willing to come up and help him. I also don't see Jon ever wanting to live in King's Landing and attend court even if he was offered.

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I see no courtship for the two either. Dany has her eyes south and Jon has his north. Their parallels are great though. Both have had their treason, lost love and rebirth. Neither were chosen to represent their houses. Both have managed thus far. Though all of this could be said of Tyrion, too. Died on the Blackwater, reborn of salt and smoke, not chosen for the house, had treason, lost love, etc. 

The 3 heads are clearly Dany, Jon and Tyrion to me but the way D+J plays out is rather interesting given the differences. 

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1 hour ago, TMIFairy said:

I'm confused - is this a GoT or an ASOIAF forum? Do we discuss book or TV-verse?

Jon is the one with the Song of Ice and Fire. Next to no one after ADwD believed Jon was definitely dead. Some were (are still) believing he is only wounded. The rest believe he will resurrect. Many expect it will not be Melisandre dirty work. The rest is D&D writing and is not to be considered here.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/2/2017 at 2:30 AM, LiveFirstDieLater said:
On 6/2/2017 at 2:30 AM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Honestly, I think it's far more likely they love each other than that they end up enemies... but I'd bet on brother/sister before husband/wife, not trhat's this is exclusive, clearly. With both Dany and Jon being of "ice and fire".

 

What do you mean by this? both of them are Targs which means both of them are fire

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On 6/6/2017 at 9:44 PM, Sea Dragon said:

No they weren't. The lineage diagram and the wiki info even says they were cousins once removed.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rickard_Stark

ehh so? cousin marriage is accepted in the north (alys was forced to marry her cousin/uncle whatever) and cousincest is generally legal in westeros (tywin married his cousin, arianne is planning to marry her cousin and etc)

 

On 6/6/2017 at 9:40 PM, BeeStark said:

My apologies if I missed one. I agree with the many others in the forum who explain that Jon and Arya think of each other as siblings. You can't change that.

 

But then we have Jon asking himself if Arya was ever his sister, and then that other times Ygritte asks Jon if he'd bed his sister and he doesnt deny, and then he thinks he is arya's home and that arya is his heart. i have siblings of my own and i have a  favorite too, but this is NOT how i view a fave sibling jsyk

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Reva said:

What do you mean by this? both of them are Targs which means both of them are fire

It's sort of a whole thing... but in short, I believe both Dany and Jon are the children of Rhaegar and Lyanna. A Targ and a Stark, thus fire and ice. One raised as each.

there is also the whole Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys being the three who originally conquered Westeros. The ends of the names are: -on, -ya, and -ys just like Jon, Arya and Danerys. The hair color even matching with the ladies...Arya being his "old" "dark sister"... and Dany being the blond beauty everyone loves.

 

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13 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

It's sort of a whole thing... but in short, I believe both Dany and Jon are the children of Rhaegar and Lyanna. A Targ and a Stark, thus fire and ice. One raised as each.

there is also the whole Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys being the three who originally conquered Westeros. The ends of the names are: -on, -ya, and -ys just like Jon, Arya and Danerys. The hair color even matching with the ladies...Arya being his "old" "dark sister"... and Dany being the blond beauty everyone loves.

 

i've heard about the aegon/visenya/rhaenys=jon/arya/daenerys theory but tbh im not buying the whole "dany is jon's sister" theory. its kind of obvious that dany is rhaella's kid. 

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On 6/3/2017 at 0:31 AM, Traverys said:

Obviously they don't even need to love each other to form a marriage alliance, but I'm not sure what Daenerys would gain from marriage to Jon that she doesn't already have. Their philosophical/ethical outlooks, in my eyes, are incompatible. They both are leaders and both have a soft spot for the defenseless... and thankfully so because a lot of defenseless people in Westeros (and maybe the world) are going to need their help for the final battle.

But after those two similarities their personal values fork. If Daenerys resorts to traditional Targaryen methodology ("fire and blood") or any of the things she's learned in Essos (e.g., nailing people to posts) he would be repulsed. Jon defied Stannis to be merciful to who he thought was Mace Rayder, etc. Daenerys might find his methods of making peace repulsive, as she's tried that route herself and was ultimately dissatisfied with it.

And, my own personal observation, is that their ship is just too neatly packaged. Exotic, beautiful dragon queen and handsome, honorable warrior makes too much sense. It's been written a thousand times before, and it doesn't match the crapsack world GRRM has built. That Jon and Daenerys are going to be drawn to each other or even involved seems to be expected by most readers with varying opinions. My personal  hypothesis is GRRM is setting up this expectation in order to smash it once it seems imminent. Not so that he can be mean, like so many people seem to think.  But instead to demonstrate (not for the first time) that attraction and "true" love are very not enough to make a relationship work.

You sum up why JonxDany wouldn't work perfectly, both here and in your other post. The two of them really aren't that much alike, and Jon's resurrection will likely make him even more detached and less concerned with the squabbles of lords. I agree that he's not really a great choice for a political marriage, either. Even if Jon does become the lord/king of Winterfell, that likely won't happen in TWOW, and even then, the North isn't the most favorable alliance. If anything, Dany has a greater need of Euron's ships than she does of Northern warriors. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/23/2017 at 9:27 AM, Reva said:

ehh so? cousin marriage is accepted in the north (alys was forced to marry her cousin/uncle whatever) and cousincest is generally legal in westeros (tywin married his cousin, arianne is planning to marry her cousin and etc)

These are threatening marriages. I saw a SSM where the author said Tywin married for money.

On 6/23/2017 at 9:27 AM, Reva said:

 

But then we have Jon asking himself if Arya was ever his sister, and then that other times Ygritte asks Jon if he'd bed his sister and he doesnt deny, and then he thinks he is arya's home and that arya is his heart. i have siblings of my own and i have a  favorite too, but this is NOT how i view a fave sibling jsyk

 

 

Jon and Arya are totally just brother and sister. I think you are falling for the red herrings. Sorry. I am not trying to sound mean.

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On 7/15/2017 at 3:29 AM, Sea Dragon said:

These are threatening marriages. I saw a SSM where the author said Tywin married for money.

Jon and Arya are totally just brother and sister. I think you are falling for the red herrings. Sorry. I am not trying to sound mean.

if it were so threatening then those marriages would have been very uncommon which isn't, and by the looks of the books people there seem to accept it as normal.

 

On 7/15/2017 at 3:29 AM, Sea Dragon said:

Jon and Arya are totally just brother and sister. I think you are falling for the red herrings. Sorry. I am not trying to sound mean.

*INHALES*

*EXHALES*

TBH I'm not even going start on this over again. all I'm going to say is, as a sister to three brothers (who also guiltily has a favorite among them, that is my half brother, what a coincidence) the way Jon views his "little sister" is NOT normal. if you think it's a red herring, then that's fine by me, but I also think you're falling for one too. sorry. This is literally all I'm going to say regarding it. I don't want to bicker about this. so that's that.

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3 hours ago, Reva said:

the way Jon views his "little sister" is NOT normal.

Seeing as how Jon was 14 and Arya was 9 the last time they saw each other it would indeed be "NOT normal" if Jon had anything beyond platonic love for her. Jon at 14 is basically a man grown and at 9 Arya is still a young girl.

Now if Arya and Jon reunite and Arya is a grown women at that time then that would be completely different.

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Thanks for posting this. I registered just to comment on it.

Not that there's anything wrong with the pairing, but I'm also puzzled at the general idea that these two are the "obvious" end game. Well, no.

GRRM would need to make up for their lack of time together with a lot of symbolism and foreshadowing. A couple ambiguous lines here and there don't make them end game, since they don't even know each other. 

Dany and Jon as a love story would put romance as a central theme in ASOIAF. There's is already a romance gone wrong that's the underlying theme in the series (R L). If both Jon and Dany's journey's are to each other, it's almost as if their "love" is some kind of end game. While I think GRRM likes love stories, I don't think he would have it at such a central position. 

Dany has already had her great love as a character. Jon had a lot of affection for Ygritte, and perhaps even loved her, but it was more clearly a "first love not meant to last" scenario. If Dany already peaked in her love story, how can she have a love story with Jon? I mean, sure, they could have a love story, but Jon hasn't yet found this great big love, while Dany has, so it would be a little strange. I don't think Dany has love in her story going forward. It's something she left behind as a character. 

So those are my arguments, other than the great arguments put forward by the OP. 

Of course, the problem is that people imagine Jon would have  love story, because he just seems like the type of character set up for that, and Dany is one of the options. If we say it's not Dany, then it's someone else, and then it's all about taste and stuff. I think Val is a great candidate, and I wouldn't discard Arya. It could be that Jon/Arya don't go romantic, but I believe there's some kind of love story there. And ppplease, let's not start with "but they are cousins!" because Dany and Jon are also related. Of course, like I wrote, it's quite possible that Jon/Arya won't turn romantic, but for sure there's something there that could be developed in a way that is not romantic, but still touching. And it's a great example of how GRRM makes up for the lack of time together with constant allusions to each other. 

And perhaps Jon doesn't end up with anybody. But still, he just seems to be the character who would have some kind of love story, if only for being R's son, and having forsaken all that. 

Still, of course people can think Jon/Dany look cool together, and nothing says it is not a possibility, but I really disagree that it's the obvious direction of the story. 

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On 23/06/2017 at 9:20 AM, Reva said:

What do you mean by this? both of them are Targs which means both of them are fire

Jon is half Stark, therefore he is ice and fire. 

And the only thing worse and more unlikely than Jon and Dany is Jon and Arya. 

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