Only death can pay for life (Spoilers)

[Mr Smith]

We've been hit over the head with this rule time and time again by both the show and the books, so why was it so blatantly ignored for the most important resurrection of the series? I always assumed Ghost would be sacrificed to resurrect Jon/return Jon's consciousness to his body. I don't know what to think now.

I suppose the other explanation is that Jon's king's blood was the key to his resurrection, but they didn't even mention it. The entire scene, while atmospheric and climactic in its direction, just seemed incredibly lazy in terms of the way it was thought out.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Hit over the head with something merely repeated and never proven — and with ample evidence to the contrary.

Which six men did Thoros sacrifice that Beric might live again?

[johndance]

20 minutes ago, Mr Smith said:

We've been hit over the head with this rule time and time again by both the show and the books, so why was it so blatantly ignored for the most important resurrection of the series? I always assumed Ghost would be sacrificed to resurrect Jon/return Jon's consciousness to his body. I don't know what to think now.

I suppose the other explanation is that Jon's king's blood was the key to his resurrection, but they didn't even mention it. The entire scene, while atmospheric and climactic in its direction, just seemed incredibly lazy in terms of the way it was thought out.

This thread should just be locked. What 6-7 however many people did Thoros sacrifice to bring back Beric? Both the books and the shows have established the red priests/priestesses can do it by 'saying the words'. On top of that, the attention to detail was fantastic. Thoros had a conversation with Mel about how he was at his low point and didn't even believe in his God...he just said the words because his friend just died. Clearly, they've shown Mel is also at her lowest point and then....bam. I say bravo and well done. That was executed wonderfully. 

[ssls6]

Awesome episode, and I thought it would happen another way but still it was great

[BlackwaterPark]

What everyone said regarding Thoros. Just wanted to add that the wall's magic may be strengthening Melisandre.

[Mr Smith]

4 minutes ago, johndance said:

This thread should just be locked. What 6-7 however many people did Thoros sacrifice to bring back Beric? Both the books and the shows have established the red priests/priestesses can do it by 'saying the words'. On top of that, the attention to detail was fantastic. Thoros had a conversation with Mel about how he was at his low point and didn't even believe in his God...he just said the words because his friend just died. Clearly, they've shown Mel is also at her lowest point and then....bam. I say bravo and well done. That was executed wonderfully. 

OK this is a fair point, but personally I never quite bought the idea that Beric was brought back six times with no cost, I just assumed the cost was yet to be revealed. Your point about Mel being at her lowest, just as Thoros was is a fair one, but as far as I remember that certainly wasn't established in the book. Truthfully it all seems entirely too easy to me, I need something more than just "they have this power that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't". It's poor writing.

[Ran]

"Can I dwell on what I scarce remember? I held a castle on the Marches once, and there was a woman I was pledged to marry, but I could not find that castle today, nor tell you the color of that woman's hair. Who knighted me, old friend? What were my favorite foods? It all fades. Sometimes I think I was born on the bloody grass in that grove of ash, with the taste of fire in my mouth and a hole in my chest. Are you my mother, Thoros?"

The price of Beric's returns from death was the death of self, in other words. No surprise he was moved to die the final death to give Catelyn life -- it was an unbearable existence.

I gather it remains to be seen what cost there is to Jon's return. There ought to be something along the lines of Beric, some part or parts of Jon missing or obscured, if they want to follow what they've laid out on the show.

 

[TheBreastplateStretcher]

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the leaches in the fire from season two or three.. It was assumed that whatever power would go to stannis(the alleged true king). Balon was the forth name in the fire and just died this episode. At least that's what I'm thinking. The leach burning spell was complete with balon dying, and therefore the power goes to the one true king... Jon. Mel's saionce was just the ignition. So Mel's visions are probably more accurate than she realizes(she saw him on the walls of WF and all) and I'm sure her confidence will rise starting next week.

[Steelborn]

11 minutes ago, Mr Smith said:

OK this is a fair point, but personally I never quite bought the idea that Beric was brought back six times with no cost, I just assumed the cost was yet to be revealed. Your point about Mel being at her lowest, just as Thoros was is a fair one, but as far as I remember that certainly wasn't established in the book. Truthfully it all seems entirely too easy to me, I need something more than just "they have this power that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't". It's poor writing.

The cost might be Thoros' own life. He does say at one point "A seventh death might mean the end of both of us." 

[SerMixalot]

A baby was eaten by dogs in this episode.  I wonder why no one is talking about it.  Perhaps that was the blood for Jon's life

[CrypticWeirwood]

10 minutes ago, Ran said:

 

 

The price of Beric's returns from death was the death of self, in other words. No surprise he was moved to die the final death to give Catelyn life -- it was an unbearable existence.

I gather it remains to be seen what cost there is to Jon's return. There ought to be something along the lines of Beric, some part or parts of Jon missing or obscured, if they want to follow what they've laid out on the show.

 

Beric died because Bloodraven could only maintain so many Animate Dead spells at once.  Jon gets a bye because he’s Bran’s first.

[CrypticWeirwood]

13 minutes ago, Ran said:

I gather it remains to be seen what cost there is to Jon's return. There ought to be something along the lines of Beric, some part or parts of Jon missing or obscured, if they want to follow what they've laid out on the show.

That’s probably why they went the full nudity route: notice he has no stab wounds any longer in the teaser for next week.

[hallam]

36 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Beric died because Bloodraven could only maintain so many Animate Dead spells at once.  Jon gets a bye because he’s Bran’s first.

That was what I was thinking. 

It is implied that Mel resurrected Jon. But it could have been the three eyed crow. 

[Lord Xhyb]

2 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Beric died because Bloodraven could only maintain so many Animate Dead spells at once.  Jon gets a bye because he’s Bran’s first.

Does the three eyed raven really have that power?

[Capt. Zemblanity]

I think you can think that D&D know what is going to happen in "broad strokes." They have said MANY times that this season is NOT going to spoils the next book. They have taken the story where they want to take it. GRRM is not involved in the writing of any episodes at this point. 

I am taking it as they know 'generally' that after the end of ADWD Jon is not dead. So they woke him up how they wanted to. To do with him what they know he will 'generally' be doing. I do not think they know the exact details of what happens to Jon so they are writing it as THEY please. After watching how they are handling the rest of it and the giant plot holes they write their characters, I think reading too much into what they write is just going to make me crazy. I am going to assume nothing until I have the book in my hands. I assume they only know 'general' things and 'broad strokes' and are doing whatever they want with it anyway. I do not doubt that the only person who knows what happens to Jon immediately after ADWD is GRRM and his wife and maybe a writer's assistant...

[Visenya the Dragon]

2 hours ago, TheBreastplateStretcher said:

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the leaches in the fire from season two or three.. It was assumed that whatever power would go to stannis(the alleged true king). Balon was the forth name in the fire and just died this episode. At least that's what I'm thinking. The leach burning spell was complete with balon dying, and therefore the power goes to the one true king... Jon. Mel's saionce was just the ignition. So Mel's visions are probably more accurate than she realizes(she saw him on the walls of WF and all) and I'm sure her confidence will rise starting next week.

Well put. This is possible. I notice she cuts his hair and  burns some of his hair, and washes his wounds. I wonder what that was about. I wonder,  her touch is warm and when cleaning the wounds it could of helped heal them. Your thoughts?

[Buffy]

I have always thought that it was Shireen's life that ultimately paid for Jon Snow's resurrection. As, we see no other repercussions for her sacrifice. 

[Attitude]

3 minutes ago, Buffy said:

I have always thought that it was Shireen's life that ultimately paid for Jon Snow's resurrection. As, we see no other repercussions for her sacrifice. 

The snowstorm stoppped & the ice melted. That was why Stannis made the sacrifice. 

[The Arthur Smith]

Kinda disappointed we waste our time and effort speculating how Jon's gonna be resurrected and today, he came back perfectly.

But i hope they will show some outcomes of the resurrection for the next episode.

[The Arthur Smith]

20 hours ago, Ran said:

I gather it remains to be seen what cost there is to Jon's return. There ought to be something along the lines of Beric, some part or parts of Jon missing or obscured, if they want to follow what they've laid out on the show.

Really hoping for this. I would seriously scratch the chalkboard if i see Jon in the next episode, smiling and happy and all that like before just...Gah!