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How would Davos know what happened to Shireen?


Davrum

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I doubt Mel told him, so Davos probably thinks the obvious: The Boltons won and, logically, killed Stannis' heir. As for deserters going back to Castle Black, why? If there is someone loyal to Stannis there, they'd get executed.

Most of them were probably hunted and killed by the Bolton's outriders. Those who survived probably turned to the coast (and that's a long way), hoping to find a ship to take them back home

 

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26 minutes ago, Valhalla Morghulis said:

I think this is the right play. Have them bond now over Jon and then serve the truth and see what Davos does

Another point is that  TV and books are different. You cannot assume with TV, like you can with books, that certain events happened or are bound to have happened, they have to be shown, that is the medium. In books and ASOIAF many of the events take place without us seeing it first hand and are merely told to us by third parties. I find this a poor way of storytelling but it is accepted in the book medium, and so a lot of readers are encouraged to assume and put the pieces together themselves whether they are the author's intention or not.

You can also have the internalised musings of characters in the books where that is just not possible on TV or cinema. Instead you may get some subtle visual clues which require observation and analysis to properly interpret. It's often the case that what you want to believe will colour what you see, so some of that subtlety can be lost on the viewer. A perfect example is Davos looking at the bloodstained snow after Jon's body is removed. Everyone jumped to the conclusion that it was the shape the blood had formed in teh snow because y'know it's a sign ;) But he was actually looking at the footprints and realising that a lot of people were involved in the murder.

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3 hours ago, messem said:

Davos' attitude towards Mel regarding the Baratheons makes mostly sense. He doesn't know (yet?) that she burnt Shireen. 

Davos' attitude towards Mel regarding Jon doesn't make sense. He doesn't like Mel. He never considered to ride back with her to reanimate Stannis' corpse. Why in seven hells would he want to bring Jon back in the first place?

Let's be fair here, Davos doesn't have immediate access to Stannis' body, nor does he realistically have the means of riding into the North, finding said body, removing it from the hands of the Boltons who no doubt have claimed the body at least for the purposes of displaying it to ensure there's no question he is dead (if his head was removed his body may not even be in one place) and THEN finally getting Melisandre to re-animate him. It's excessively complicated, highly unlikely to succeed as well.

As for Jon? The show has tried to push the idea he respects him, Davos knowing Stannis is dead may simply be looking to the next best option, the most realistic too in terms of obtaining the body, his own locality to it etc, to resurrect and support.

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It is so stupid.

If Davos really care about resurrecting, he should have gone out and look for the bodies of Stannis, Shireen and even Seylse and either give them a proper burial or ask for their resurrection instead!

instead, he is so calm about his king's death (and he is supposed to be extremely loyal to Stannis) and want to resurrect someone whom he prob does not know very well.

anyway, Davos hates magic so it is kind of surprising he would ask for that.

MAKE NO SENSE!

D&D BE DAMNED! 

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8 minutes ago, dantares83 said:

It is so stupid.

If Davos really care about resurrecting, he should have gone out and look for the bodies of Stannis, Shireen and even Seylse and either give them a proper burial or ask for their resurrection instead!

instead, he is so calm about his king's death (and he is supposed to be extremely loyal to Stannis) and want to resurrect someone whom he prob does not know very well.

anyway, Davos hates magic so it is kind of surprising he would ask for that.

MAKE NO SENSE!

D&D BE DAMNED! 

Just gone out? The more than 600 miles from Castle Black to Winterfell? And then wander around in the snow looking for bodies, three specific bodies amongst probably thousands? More than likely buried in snow.

Yeah, he should have just done that.

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I was a little confused about this, but now that I know what Davos knows (courtesy of a previous post in the thread), I get why he's okay with Melisandre. 

If Melisandre told him Shireen and Stannis are both dead, it makes perfect sense to me why he would accept that as it is and not ask questions. Once truth reaches him (if it does), he will probably want to murder Mel on the spot, but for now, I'm good with his attitude towards her. 

Again in the previous posts, I found a better question. Why is Davos so eager to resurrect Jon? With Stannis gone, he has nobody to follow, he has no cause, no leader, no nothing. It kinda makes sense to pledge his loyalty to Jon. He and Stannis both had appreciation for Jon and acknowledged him as a good and able leader, a noble and just man. That's pretty much Davos's type. Also, he stayed behind for a reason, not just so Stannis could burn Shireen, but also so he could aid Jon in the final battle stuff Stannis thought he was going to fight. 

As for why he doesn't want to go back for Stannis's body, that obviously quite far fetched as there is little and less chance that the enemy would leave Stannis's corpse lying around instead of putting his head on a spike or burning all the dead of the battle. Again, bearing in mind that he doesn't know how Stannis died. (Nor does Mel.) 

and why he believes that Jon is not yet finished in this world and insists that Mel tries to bring him back...? Because the story has to progress and nothing will ever be 100% logical. and then, the blood was fishy, and he doesn't want to admit failure... Stuff.

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14 hours ago, Ser Frasier of House Crane said:

I feel that Davos will find out when they march toward Winterfell and he finds Shireen's pyre and her stag somehow survived the flames.

This is also exactly what I think is going to happen.

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14 hours ago, Ser Frasier of House Crane said:

I feel that Davos will find out when they march toward Winterfell and he finds Shireen's pyre and her stag somehow survived the flames.

Hopefully. There is a clip with a sullen Davos who seems to be looking at Shirren's pyre.

And like many people said, Davos knew Shireen's and Stannis' death. He thought Stannis lost the battle with the Boltons and that the Boltons murdered Shireen. So he accepts this. But he didn't know Mel was responsible for all of this including Stannis burning Shireen.

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6 hours ago, HellasLEAF said:

I think Davos is a great character and is perfectly cast.  He is just doing what he thinks is best given the circumstances that have played out before him.  And no one can fault his bravery to decide to defend Jon's body.  

But why would he protect Jon's body in the first place ?

I can kind of see that he would side with the loyalists, using his status as an "neutral outsider" to mediate the situation a bit. At least that was what we saw, although I'd say it was quite gamble on his part to rely on Thornes honour not to kill an innocent bystander, when the man has just openly comitted treason. So let's just assume, that they ended up in that room "guarding" Jon's body was a series of coincidences that played out very plot-convenient.

What I can't figure out is where Davos' sudden assumption that Mel could maybe revive dead people comes from. And it must have been a pretty sudden one, because he didn't object to Tormund ordering to building funeral pyres a few hours before IIRC.

Did he just happen to read a chapter on the Lord of Light and it's priests supposed powers in the library of CB that evening ?

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7 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

But why would he protect Jon's body in the first place ?

I can kind of see that he would side with the loyalists, using his status as an "neutral outsider" to mediate the situation a bit. At least that was what we saw, although I'd say it was quite gamble on his part to rely on Thornes honour not to kill an innocent bystander, when the man has just openly comitted treason. So let's just assume, that they ended up in that room "guarding" Jon's body was a series of coincidences that played out very plot-convenient.

What I can't figure out is where Davos' sudden assumption that Mel could maybe revive dead people comes from. And it must have been a pretty sudden one, because he didn't object to Tormund ordering to building funeral pyres a few hours before IIRC.

Did he just happen to read a chapter on the Lord of Light and it's priests supposed powers in the library of CB that evening ?

I don't really think he was protecting his body.

He just happened to find Jon dead, and they locked themselves on a room...he wasn't protecting his body, he was protecting himself and the rest.

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5 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

I don't really think he was protecting his body.

He just happened to find Jon dead, and they locked themselves on a room...he wasn't protecting his body, he was protecting himself and the rest.

The only reason they were in danger in the first place is because they had Jon's body if they just burned it and left they'd be fine.

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1 minute ago, Ruhail said:

The only reason they were in danger in the first place is because they had Jon's body if they just burned it and left they'd be fine.

Sure, but they don't want to. IIRC, a few of the men that were with Davos are the ones who were with Jon at Hardhome. It makes sense for them to side with him, after what they've seen. Nobody actually likes Thorne.

Also, whoy would they leave? That makes them desertors. Better die with honor than live without it.

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My problem with the whole situation is that really... Davos should know that something strange happened to Shireen and Selyse. I can understand that Davos would accept the news of Stannis' death as he was leading the army and Davos was never fully onboard with Mel and her visions. I can also understand why he might ask Mel to help Jon as even though her visions were wrong he did witness the shadow baby.

Not being curious as to how Melisandre got away, but Shireen and Selyse didn't is silly. You'd assume they wouldn't be near the battle and guarded. At least enough guards to give them time to escape if for some reason they were attacked. I suppose we will have to wait to see if this is ever addressed in the show. They surely have to, but if they don't.. That's just poor. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Sure, but they don't want to. IIRC, a few of the men that were with Davos are the ones who were with Jon at Hardhome. It makes sense for them to side with him, after what they've seen. Nobody actually likes Thorne.

Also, whoy would they leave? That makes them desertors. Better die with honor than live without it.

Why dont they want to burn a dead body? They're at the wall, they've seen what happens at hardhome (which seems to have been stupidly handwaved), they had an incident in season 1 though that was a little different. What does keeping his body and dying for it do? Nothing. Theres no need to keep it as evidence since Throne admitted his mutiny.

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16 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

But why would he protect Jon's body in the first place ?

I can kind of see that he would side with the loyalists, using his status as an "neutral outsider" to mediate the situation a bit. At least that was what we saw, although I'd say it was quite gamble on his part to rely on Thornes honour not to kill an innocent bystander, when the man has just openly comitted treason. So let's just assume, that they ended up in that room "guarding" Jon's body was a series of coincidences that played out very plot-convenient.

What I can't figure out is where Davos' sudden assumption that Mel could maybe revive dead people comes from. And it must have been a pretty sudden one, because he didn't object to Tormund ordering to building funeral pyres a few hours before IIRC.

Did he just happen to read a chapter on the Lord of Light and it's priests supposed powers in the library of CB that evening ?

I think because he is just following the wishes of Stannis.  Stannis wanted Jon to leave the Wall and rule Winterfell.  Davos also knows whats happening in the North with the Whitewalkers etc.  Jon also has an army of Wildlings who are for the most part loyal to him for granting them passage through the wall. I also think that Davos sees something in Jon and is willing to fight for him.  

There has to be some things taken as being implied here when we are watching the show.  Davos has been around Mel for a while now, although he may not be a devote follower of any religion he has seen some crazy things from her.  With that being said, considering he knows a Giant is at the wall, a dire wolf sleeping right beneath Jon, and all the other crap he has seen, is it that much out of the realm of possibility for him to think she could bring him back to life?

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