Kinslaying?! Possible Spoilers

[CONQUI5TADOR]

What the heck is going on here... there was so much importance put on the idea that the North holds guest right/kinslaying as basically holy things. Now we have a bastard who kills his father in front of one of the great houses and hes just like. "Yea cool" and now it seems that the Umbers are going to turn over Rickon to Ramsay? Why the hell would they do that? In the books they are fiercely loyal to the Starks. Everyone is suspicious of their allegiance especially since they split their house and send the old dudes to Roose and the young ones to Stannis. Granted they are both different but are we seriously supposed to believe that all the Northern lords, especially from the three largest houses (Umbers, Manderlys and Karstarks) are okay with how all this crap went down and how the Boltons became warden. I feel like they are starting to butcher the Northern story line like they did Dorne. I really hope the Umbers don't turn over Rickon. Otherwise what is the point of reintroducing him, just kill him off camera. Is it possible that the Umbers/Manderlys both turn on Ramsay because of Rickon/Sansa/Jon still being alive and their to fight for Winterfell Christ all mighty... 

[Miley the Monstrous]

Jesus Christ. Could you at least wait and see what's gonna be the deal with the Umbers before you start whining? 

This fandom, I swear...

[The Fattest Leech]

Oh jesus christos. How dare you, as a fan, have the audacity to think you deserve to speculate what could possibly happen in a series that you are watching???

I mean, FFS, who says they have butchered Dorne 'cuz ya know, the show isn't over yet. You have to wait until the very last episode ever to make these statements. Gahh!

[Stag_legion]

26 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oh jesus christos. How dare you, as a fan, have the audacity to think you deserve to speculate what could possibly happen in a series that you are watching???

I mean, FFS, who says they have butchered Dorne 'cuz ya know, the show isn't over yet. You have to wait until the very last episode ever to make these statements. Gahh!

 

[Kolx]

40 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oh jesus christos. How dare you, as a fan, have the audacity to think you deserve to speculate what could possibly happen in a series that you are watching???

I mean, FFS, who says they have butchered Dorne 'cuz ya know, the show isn't over yet. You have to wait until the very last episode ever to make these statements. Gahh!

Nooo. 

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

I get the feeling they're backpedaling a touch with Winterfell. Smalljon will deliver a fake Rickon to Ramsey while the real Rickon is safe somewhere. The Manderly stuff, the Northern Conspiracy in some smaller, simpler form, only Jon and the Wildlings instead of Stannis and his men.

[Gendry_Goldeneyes]

things are usually not what they seem from the previews.

i dont see manderlys or umbers backing ramsey. who will they have rally around sansa if not them?

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, Gendry_Goldeneyes said:

things are usually not what they seem from the previews.

i dont see manderlys or umbers backing ramsey. who will they have rally around sansa if not them?

Well, we see hundreds of bowmen with Umber sigil alongside Bolton cross at some type of battle, and Ramsay says to someone "Do you like to play a game, little man?"

Things have been what they seem from the previews and teasers - Thorne at one side of a door, and Davos giving his sorry what you're abotu to see. It was easily deducable that Thorne intended to break down a door and that Davos was behind that door preparing for battle.

So, yes, we can safely deduct that Umbers join Ramsay in the battle of the bastards and that Ramsay has Rickon. We may not be able to say how that battle will turn out, because a third party can come and rain on Ramsay-Umber parade just like wildlings rained on Thorne's parade. But there's also a shot of a big mountain of bodies on which wildlings and mormonts fight against an army of Boltons and Umbers.

[Direwight]

Not that everything is always as it seems, but I think it's fair to say that very often they are exactly what the very first impression based on the setup is.

Roose's legitimate son would inherit before Ramsay? So, Ramsay kills them all. Thorne is a loyal man of the NW, but hates Jon? So, he stabs Jon. Sansa is going to Winterfell? So, she takes Jeyne Poole's role. Shireen foreshadowed as sacrifice? So, that's exactly what happens.

All of those are things that you could have deduced well before the fact because the setup was known from past episodes/seasons or from trailers, and I think the only reason anyone assumed a different end result was because of an assumption that there would be twists and things wouldn't go down in the most straightforward and predictable way. At best, you could say that it was unpredictable by virtue of being so predictable that no one really thought it'd happen.

So, at this point, if the setup is "Ramsay gets Rickon", I know where my bets are.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

20 hours ago, CONQUI5TADOR said:

What the heck is going on here... there was so much importance put on the idea that the North holds guest right/kinslaying as basically holy things. Now we have a bastard who kills his father in front of one of the great houses and hes just like. "Yea cool" and now it seems that the Umbers are going to turn over Rickon to Ramsay? Why the hell would they do that? In the books they are fiercely loyal to the Starks.

By now, it's a firmly established fact, in-universe as well, that Ramsay is a rabid dog. Knife-happy sadistic psychopath. Now, maybe, maybe what people say to and around him is not always what they actually think, maybe they are insincere in Ramsay's presence. Just a thought.

[ArabellaVidal]

Maybe Karstark should have stuck Ramsay while he had the chance and become Lord Protector of Winterfell, regent to the newly whelped Bolton baby.

[Winter's Cold]

Maybe Lords Karstark and Umber wanted to get rid of Roose as well. Perhaps they didn't like him due to his defeat at the Battle of the Green Fork while they are aware that Ramsay is the one who orchestrated the takeover of Winterfell. Ramsay is also the one who led a daring raid against Stannis that crippled his army. In their eyes, Ramsay may be more capable in military matters than Roose so why not have him takeover.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

12 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

Maybe Lords Karstark and Umber wanted to get rid of Roose as well. Perhaps they didn't like him due to his defeat at the Battle of the Green Fork while they are aware that Ramsay is the one who orchestrated the takeover of Winterfell. Ramsay is also the one who led a daring raid against Stannis that crippled his army. In their eyes, Ramsay may be more capable in military matters than Roose so why not have him takeover.

Leading a raid isn't the same thing as being Supreme Commander of the Northern forces 

[Winter's Cold]

41 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Leading a raid isn't the same thing as being Supreme Commander of the Northern forces 

It's more than Roose has done. Lords prefer to follow leaders with distinct military achievements.

[Newstar]

The only time kinslaying and the kinslaying curse were referenced in the show, if I'm not mistaken, was the oblique reference by Rickard Karstark:

Karstark: We are kin, Stark and Karstark. (...) I don't want it to save me. I want it to haunt you to the end of your days. (...) Kill me and be cursed. You are no king of mine.

Even then, I don't believe the word "kinslaying" has ever been used on the show, and the kinslayers of the show have never been directly referenced as such. Nor do a lot of the kinslayers appear to be worried about the kinslayer curse (TV Jaime, TV Tyrion, TV Stannis, etc.), even those on whom the curse weighs pretty heavily in the books (like Tyrion).

The evidence suggests that the kinslayer curse exists in the TV universe but isn't as big of a deal as it is in the books, where it's taken much more seriously.

[Miley the Monstrous]

23 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oh jesus christos. How dare you, as a fan, have the audacity to think you deserve to speculate what could possibly happen in a series that you are watching???

I mean, FFS, who says they have butchered Dorne 'cuz ya know, the show isn't over yet. You have to wait until the very last episode ever to make these statements. Gahh!

There's speculating and then there's epically whining like a hypochondriac thinking he's got cancer because he did a Google search. 

Don't be disingenuous and stay away from false comparisons, it's not a good look. We all know Dorne is shit because the shit in question already happened, whereas this potential shit is still speculation. 

But since this episode kicked the ass of the last two novels I guess you can cling to whatever excuse you can to keep criticizing the show, fine by me. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

On 5/2/2016 at 7:49 AM, CONQUI5TADOR said:

What the heck is going on here... there was so much importance put on the idea that the North holds guest right/kinslaying as basically holy things. Now we have a bastard who kills his father in front of one of the great houses and hes just like. "Yea cool" and now it seems that the Umbers are going to turn over Rickon to Ramsay? Why the hell would they do that? In the books they are fiercely loyal to the Starks. Everyone is suspicious of their allegiance especially since they split their house and send the old dudes to Roose and the young ones to Stannis. Granted they are both different but are we seriously supposed to believe that all the Northern lords, especially from the three largest houses (Umbers, Manderlys and Karstarks) are okay with how all this crap went down and how the Boltons became warden. I feel like they are starting to butcher the Northern story line like they did Dorne. I really hope the Umbers don't turn over Rickon. Otherwise what is the point of reintroducing him, just kill him off camera. Is it possible that the Umbers/Manderlys both turn on Ramsay because of Rickon/Sansa/Jon still being alive and their to fight for Winterfell Christ all mighty... 

Ramsay is a psycho and there are no rules that apply to the mind and behavior of a Psycho in that they have no limits/conscience.

I agree with others in thinking that the Umbers may bring a "fake" Rickon but maybe bring an "infiltrator" into Winterfell, a "Ghost of Winterfell" maybe. The Karstarks, who knows?

 

[nedfart]

23 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oh jesus christos. How dare you, as a fan, have the audacity to think you deserve to speculate what could possibly happen in a series that you are watching???

I mean, FFS, who says they have butchered Dorne 'cuz ya know, the show isn't over yet. You have to wait until the very last episode ever to make these statements. Gahh!

Ellaria could still carry out a dornish master plan bro, I mean she already got tommen thinking it was his mom who killed trystane. 

[nedfart]

36 minutes ago, Miley the Monstrous said:

There's speculating and then there's epically whining like a hypochondriac thinking he's got cancer because he did a Google search. 

Don't be disingenuous and stay away from false comparisons, it's not a good look. We all know Dorne is shit because the shit in question already happened, whereas this potential shit is still speculation. 

But since this episode kicked the ass of the last two novels I guess you can cling to whatever excuse you can to keep criticizing the show, fine by me. 

I was all ready to agree with you until the last sentence.

[The Fattest Leech]

13 minutes ago, nedfart said:

Ellaria could still carry out a dornish master plan bro, I mean she already got tommen thinking it was his mom who killed trystane. 

I fully agree with you

We have a bit bit of info overload between 10 months of spoilers, leaked pics and teaser trailers and now seeing what has already happened on screen to start to ask questions and theorize what could be coming up week by week.