Promise Me Ned (Spoilers)

[The Answer]

The guilt Ned felt throughout AGoT in reference to Lyanna's "Promise me" is inexplicable.  Most assume he fulfilled the promise by keeping Jon's identity secret; tucking him away up North.. away from the politics of Westeros and Robert's wrath.  

Then why feel guilty?

We finally get to witness the oath Ned swore to his sister... and it won't be what most presume. 

Ned is the Oathbreaker  

[ErasmusF]

Well he lied to his wife, and let her suffer embarrassment to keep his secret. He wouldn't even tell her the truth. He kept Jon's true identity from him. That's got to cause some mixed feelings. 

It would be an interesting twist to see that Ned broke some oath to his sister to raise Jon as a trueborn or help him win the Iron Throne. But I think that's a lot to squeeze into one hour. 

I think that it's likely that news of Ramsey coming to Castle Black reaches Jon, and he decides to march to meet the Bolton forces. Alliser Thorne will stand trial and will call Jon an oathbreaker. 

[goomba]

interesting theory! 

first time i heard such a theory.

you could be right!!!

[RhaenysBee]

Ned in the books actually keeps thinking of the promise as "broken" in his fever dreams. 

So I'm inclined to believe the promise was more than raising Jon as his son and keeping him safe. 

It could easily have been telling Jon of his Targaryen heritage (which Ned never did), or it could be even more. Maybe Lyanna wanted Ned to make sure Jon would succeed as Rhaegar's heir, but there's Aegon and I'm not sure Lyanna would have heard of the sack of King's Landing.

well, we'll find out, but I do believe that promise was not kept as Lyanna had asked.

[RhaenysBee]

The server is apparently weaker than the men ruling Dorne... 

[The Arthur Smith]

Great thoughts there!

Though i felt that TOJ is going to split, just so to leave suspense as to the nature of that promise, with the title giving us hints and all.

[The Answer]

3 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

Well he lied to his wife, and let her suffer embarrassment to keep his secret. He wouldn't even tell her the truth. He kept Jon's true identity from him. That's got to cause some mixed feelings. 

It would be an interesting twist to see that Ned broke some oath to his sister to raise Jon as a trueborn or help him win the Iron Throne. But I think that's a lot to squeeze into one hour. 

I think that it's likely that news of Ramsey coming to Castle Black reaches Jon, and he decides to march to meet the Bolton forces. Alliser Thorne will stand trial and will call Jon an oathbreaker. 

Ahhh true there's cause for guilt in those examples but all freaking book dwelling on dishonoring Catelyn? Idk.  I think it's something bigger.

2 hours ago, goomba said:

interesting theory! 

first time i heard such a theory.

you could be right!!!

Can't take credit for it.. I heard it on here sometime this year and have been a strong supporter ever since. 

1 hour ago, RhaeBee said:

Ned in the books actually keeps thinking of the promise as "broken" in his fever dreams. 

So I'm inclined to believe the promise was more than raising Jon as his son and keeping him safe. 

It could easily have been telling Jon of his Targaryen heritage (which Ned never did), or it could be even more. Maybe Lyanna wanted Ned to make sure Jon would succeed as Rhaegar's heir, but there's Aegon and I'm not sure Lyanna would have heard of the sack of King's Landing.

well, we'll find out, but I do believe that promise was not kept as Lyanna had asked.

Yep this is true.. he dreamt of dark and disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises.  Such a pivotal part of the book, I don't think any theories will have it completely figured out.  GRRM won't have that.

1 hour ago, RhaeBee said:

The server is apparently weaker than the men ruling Dorne... 

Come on RhaeBee be nice.. Jon just broke the freaking Internet last night.

1 hour ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Great thoughts there!

Though i felt that TOJ is going to split, just so to leave suspense as to the nature of that promise, with the title giving us hints and all.

Shoooooot.  You're probably right, it could very well just just be the battle scene this week. Hey, I'll take it.

[RhaenysBee]

17 minutes ago, The Answer said:

Ahhh true there's cause for guilt in those examples but all freaking book dwelling on dishonoring Catelyn? Idk.  I think it's something bigger.

Can't take credit for it.. I heard it on here sometime this year and have been a strong supporter ever since. 

Yep this is true.. he dreamt of dark and disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises.  Such a pivotal part of the book, I don't think any theories will have it completely figured out.  GRRM won't have that.

Come on RhaeBee be nice.. Jon just broke the freaking Internet last night. 

Yes, plus dishonoring Catelyn is breaking a promise he made to Catelyn (in the sept) and not to Lyanna. 

Yes, that's the line I had in mind. And I have a feeling he thinks of broken promises in his black cell too, but not too sure of that. 

You're right, the Internet deserves some credit for taking the whole world's crap each and every day. 

[ser charles candle]

5 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

Well he lied to his wife, and let her suffer embarrassment to keep his secret. He wouldn't even tell her the truth. He kept Jon's true identity from him. That's got to cause some mixed feelings. 

It would be an interesting twist to see that Ned broke some oath to his sister to raise Jon as a trueborn or help him win the Iron Throne. But I think that's a lot to squeeze into one hour. 

I think that it's likely that news of Ramsey coming to Castle Black reaches Jon, and he decides to march to meet the Bolton forces. Alliser Thorne will stand trial and will call Jon an oathbreaker. 

So the whole dying thing wont work as a loop hole?

[TheOtherRedWoman]

5 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Ned in the books actually keeps thinking of the promise as "broken" in his fever dreams. 

So I'm inclined to believe the promise was more than raising Jon as his son and keeping him safe. 

It could easily have been telling Jon of his Targaryen heritage (which Ned never did), or it could be even more. Maybe Lyanna wanted Ned to make sure Jon would succeed as Rhaegar's heir, but there's Aegon and I'm not sure Lyanna would have heard of the sack of King's Landing.

well, we'll find out, but I do believe that promise was not kept as Lyanna had asked.

This right here, I was thinking the same thing last night!

He could have easily broken his promise to Lyanna. Even if it were to keep Jon safe, there is a good reason that he would be torn up about it. I can't wait!

[DJE]

Interesting, I've never seen that theory. I can't wait to see the TOJ scenes. I think that they are going to be split as well. Probably just the battle, I am curious to see if we will get any additional dialogue besides the lines we already know from Ned's dream.

[Floate]

8 hours ago, ErasmusF said:

Alliser Thorne will stand trial and will call Jon an oathbreaker. 

Game of Thrones episode titles tend to refer to multiple things in the episode, so this could be something that Alliser Thorne says about Jon. However, I think the title referring only to this would be kind of redundant. How many times does Thorne have to call Jon a traitor?

It's funny, there will be so many oathbreakers featured in this episode: Ramsay, the Karstarks, the Umbers, Jon (and his boys), Alliser (and his boys), Ned (potentially). This entire story begins by telling us that honor and duty are so important to the people in this world ("The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword."), yet nearly every character is now touched by treachery and deceit.

[princess_snow]

what about Jaimie killing the mad king ? It was mentioned in last nights ep......

[Bonkers]

all characters in the next episode will be under the flag of "oathbreaker" I think.  Arya to her 'no-one' oath, etc.  As for the ToJ, show will be different to the books..... I am anticipating a Jon baby in the show, but Dany in the books!!!!!  xxxxxxxx

[oopeed]

2 hours ago, princess_snow said:

what about Jaimie killing the mad king ? It was mentioned in last nights ep......

Oh god don't even remind me of that magnificent piece of bad writing.

You can't possibly present the HS in the series own canon as fanatical enough to throw Margeary in jail for lying and not crucifying Jaime on the spot after confessing to murder... The writers need to make up their mind.

What I'm interested about is on how they're going to portray Arya's "seeing". In the books we know she learns how to see through the eyes of cats to avoid being hit. But the preview points to the series taking more of a Daredevil approach to it.

Also, tower of joy! I really think they should have played the scene before Jon's return.

[Shortspear Rick]

I've never even considered the promise being anything other than to raise Jon and keep him safe, presumably by hiding his identity. This is an interesting idea though. It adds depth to how he feels about not telling the truth to Cat, especially if the promise was to raise Jon as a Targaryan. By not telling Cat, he's being dishonest to the two most important women in his life, her and Lyanna. He takes the easy way out by taking him as a bastard instead of the perilous choice of raising Jon as a contestant to the throne that his best friend Robert just won. He opts for peace instead of a continuation of the War of the Usurper. He could preserve stability in the kingdom and protect his only nephew in one fell swoop. Ned knew what befell Rhaegar's other children and if anything could cause the righteous Eddard Stark to betray honor it would be to preserve the only child of his beloved sister. Interesting theory, and absolutely plausible, I think. Not sure if I buy it yet. While I think its safe to say that the promise concerned Jon hopefully we'll find out this Sunday. Or.... "No. Now it ends." cut to black, we'll deal with Lyanna in her bed of blood in episode 4 - Book of the Stranger...

edit- I know they at least fight so it won't end that abruptly, it's just hard to expect an actual answer at this point. or they could just rush right through it all in a hurry. that would not surprise me either.

[JonisHenryTudor]

10 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Great thoughts there!

Though i felt that TOJ is going to split, just so to leave suspense as to the nature of that promise, with the title giving us hints and all.

Yep. The scene will end with Ned walking through the door seeing his sister in a "bed of blood".

[princess_snow]

2 hours ago, Merengues said:

Oh god don't even remind me of that magnificent piece of bad writing.

You can't possibly present the HS in the series own canon as fanatical enough to throw Margeary in jail for lying and not crucifying Jaime on the spot after confessing to murder... The writers need to make up their mind.

What I'm interested about is on how they're going to portray Arya's "seeing". In the books we know she learns how to see through the eyes of cats to avoid being hit. But the preview points to the series taking more of a Daredevil approach to it.

Also, tower of joy! I really think they should have played the scene before Jon's return.

I mean there is a flashback for this. Given he mentioned it to the HS, it may be due to it being shown in ep 3. As in Oathbreaker....

[Aerys Blackfyre]

Ned is the Oathbreaker 

THIS 

[RhaenysBee]

5 hours ago, Bonkers said:

all characters in the next episode will be under the flag of "oathbreaker" I think.  Arya to her 'no-one' oath, etc.  As for the ToJ, show will be different to the books..... I am anticipating a Jon baby in the show, but Dany in the books!!!!!  xxxxxxxx

No, I don't think that's going to happen. I am still only 99% sure of R+L=J because there is 1% chance for J to be D somehow (Martin surely wants to do something about the baby swap). But which ever it is, the show will not take a different path on this one. It's the core of the whole story and it was said plenty of times that even though storylines differ show and books are both working to get from A to B and Whatever the show decides to change, B is still B.