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The Old Gods/Drowned God


Lord Vance II

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I don't think this would really affect much, but could the Drowned God be one of the Old Gods? 

I don't think any specific Old God is ever named, or really considered, but presumably at one time at least some Old Gods were recognized individually, because otherwise why refer to it/them as a plural?

The same type of thing happened in real history, with cities in Greece claiming one of the pantheon of gods as their mascot/idol/supporter (like Athens and Athena.)

I suppose R'hollor could be seen in this light too (pun somewhat intended), but that faith seemed to have originated in Essos, so it's not as easy a link. 

Thoughts?

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The Old Gods are the gods of the children of the forest who never made it to the Iron Islands. The Drowned God is probably related to the original gods of the First Men before they took the Old Gods as their own after the signing of the Pact. The Sea God and Goddess of the Wind, of Storms End myth, are probably original First Men deities too. The religion of the Ironmen evolved separately from the mainland so they never adopted Old Gods nor faith of the Seven resulting in their own unique dualistic version of the First Men pantheon. Don't forget that the Ironborn also recognise the Storm God, perpetual enemy of the Drowned God.

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13 hours ago, Mick of House Guinness said:

The Old Gods are the gods of the children of the forest who never made it to the Iron Islands. The Drowned God is probably related to the original gods of the First Men before they took the Old Gods as their own after the signing of the Pact. The Sea God and Goddess of the Wind, of Storms End myth, are probably original First Men deities too. The religion of the Ironmen evolved separately from the mainland so they never adopted Old Gods nor faith of the Seven resulting in their own unique dualistic version of the First Men pantheon. Don't forget that the Ironborn also recognise the Storm God, perpetual enemy of the Drowned God.

I find it interesting that we know so little of the original storm land religion that followed the storm god,  probably because they were actually overcome by the andals. I feel like thew might be some information later about the storm god culture that could give some insight about the iron born culture. 

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14 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The "Old Gods" are the greenseers.  There are gods the first men held before that, 1 of which is likely the Drowned god.

Well the Greenseers and the collective minds that live in the Weirwoods.

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14 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Well the Greenseers and the collective minds that live in the Weirwoods.

Ya I guess that's slightly unclear.  So you think all cotf have kind of a collective mind going on?  I kind of thought that most just went into animals like the ones Bran feels in the ravens.

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On 5/2/2016 at 6:28 AM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The "Old Gods" are the greenseers.  There are gods the first men held before that, 1 of which is likely the Drowned god.

and the storm god, and the lady of the waves and the lord of the skies 

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From what I can gather there are two types of gods.

•cosmic gods

  •the lion of night and the maid of morning are the gods the fath of the 7 are based on and the reason they have no power is because thies gods have long since trend their back on the world.

 •Earth bound gods

     Lady of the waves, lord of the skies, the gods of the earth, lord if light R'hllor, the storm god, the drowned god, the many faced god, and the great other.

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26 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

From what I can gather there are two types of gods.

•cosmic gods

  •the lion of night and the maid of morning are the gods the fath of the 7 are based on and the reason they have no power is because thies gods have long since trend their back on the world.

 •Earth bound gods

     Lady of the waves, lord of the skies, the gods of the earth, lord if light R'hllor, the storm god, the drowned god, the many faced god, and the great other.

Even more interesting is that the LoN and the MMoL produced the "God On Earth" before he himself ascended back to the celestial bodies.  So it seems to suggest that there's both types of Gods being associated with each other.  Are the LoN and the MMoL actual Gods themselves too?  Seems like they should be, but it's open to interpretation.  But then too, if they are gods, are they Gods that are represented in the story as some other God?  The LoN seems to me to be a loosely related Great Other since the Others bring the Long Night, they vanish during daylight (mostly) and sound a lot like they could be what R'hllorists speak of when they chant their "the night is dark and full of terrors".  The Maiden Made of Light however could be associated to the Lord of Light no?  We have zero information about her and the LoN but we do have this other information about these two religions.  

If we think about the Great Empire of the Dawn from the Yi Ti legend, the God on Earth ruled for 10k years before he ascended.  So then one must ask, what religion did that culture follow?  A cosmic God(s) or their own God on Earth who also doubled as ruler?  What if, the God on Earth represents the Last Hero, Azor Ahai and Hyrkoon?  He/She is the 'marriage' of Ice and Fire (if it were to be the case that the LoN represents the Others and the MMoL represents R'hllor) and ruled for 10k years of peace and prosperity.  As we know the rule declined over time as the commoners fell into avarice and the other 'sins' we see so prominent in the story proper... and eventually one of the original offspring of that marriage usurps his sister's rule.  The bloodlines then begin to deviate further from the original merged bloodlines until finally, Jon is produced, and if in fact he is the product of the Ice lineage as well as the Fire lineage his song would be the song of Ice and Fire as our series title tells us (along with the prophecy).

I think Martin is incorporating all types into the story.  The Old Gods seem to me to be a bit like Mother Nature, perhaps being represented by the elements rather than amalgamated into one.  It could also be that the Old Gods are as others have said, the collective knowledge and memories of the Greenseers over ions of time.  Yet that still leaves our elemental Gods too; R'hllor = Fire; Drowned God = Water (but we also have the Rhoynish Mother Rhoyne God of 'water' as well), Storm God = Air, and the "Old Gods" could possibly be Earth.

It'll be very cool to get enough information to clarify this one way or another, even if some of it stays ambiguous, it'd be really cool to know.

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  • 1 month later...

R'hllor is none of the First Men gods. It's a religion originating from Essos, most prominently in the Free Cities like Myr and Volantis. In Westeros, prior to Selyse adopting this belief, there were very few followers of R'hllor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sorcery performed by the Red Priests is based on fire and blood, which indicates a connection to Valyria.

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