Rohed Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 im sure there are theory's out there but I've lost touch on them all.. So many and very to each degree of insanity ... Anyways I was reading something else and had an "oh shit" moment ... all asuming L+R = J ... And only death can pay for life. It would explain a lot about the promise Ned had to keep. The emotional state of a mother just given birth would choose to save the baby over themselves... We know HR did something that haunts Ned. Could we not assume he was able to give the baby life in place of hers? The promise being to take care of the baby/keep it alive. Not nessisarly to keep him a secret but that was an unfortunate nessesity. just wanted to write it down ... May have been discussed to death Already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 10 hours ago, Rohed said: We know HR did something that haunts Ned How we know that? All we know is that Dayne would had killed Ned if he wasn't saved by HReed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ McLannister Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: How we know that? All we know is that Dayne would had killed Ned if he wasn't saved by HReed. I love when posts start out "we know..." then say some theory I've never heard before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said: I love when posts start out "we know..." then say some theory I've never heard before. Well do we know anything else from the text? All we know from the text is that Ned told his children that of it wasn't for HReed, Arthur would had killed him and when Robb said that his father knew Howland's worth. When it is said that Ned was haunted by something that Howland had done. I don't remember that but I may be wrong, so please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ McLannister Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Well do we know anything else from the text? All we know from the text is that Ned told his children that of it wasn't for HReed, Arthur would had killed him and when Robb said that his father knew Howland's worth. When it is said that Ned was haunted by something that Howland had done. I don't remember that but I may be wrong, so please enlighten me. No, I'm agreeing with you. I have no idea where this coming from. There are some crazy Howland Reed theories kicking around, but their textual evidence is completely based on silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said: No, I'm agreeing with you. I have no idea where this coming from. There are some crazy Howland Reed theories kicking around, but their textual evidence is completely based on silence. I see my mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 14 hours ago, Rohed said: im sure there are theory's out there but I've lost touch on them all.. So many and very to each degree of insanity ... Anyways I was reading something else and had an "oh shit" moment ... all asuming L+R = J ... And only death can pay for life. It would explain a lot about the promise Ned had to keep. The emotional state of a mother just given birth would choose to save the baby over themselves... We know HR did something that haunts Ned. Could we not assume he was able to give the baby life in place of hers? The promise being to take care of the baby/keep it alive. Not nessisarly to keep him a secret but that was an unfortunate nessesity. just wanted to write it down ... May have been discussed to death Already. Only death can pay for life isn't a Westerosi concept. It seems to be associated with R'hllorism or the mysticism practiced by Mirri and/or Jaqen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forlong the Fat Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Or how about this. Arthur Dayne actually killed Ned, because he is Arthur Dayne, isn't he? Howland Reed killed Arthur Dayne and then he resurrected Ned because, as everyone knows, Howland Reed is a wizard. But when he resurrected Ned it killed Jon accidentally, because only death can pay for life. So then he had to resurrect Jon and that killed Lyanna. He tried to resurrect Lyanna but there was no one left to kill so it didn't work. Then they brought Arthur Dayne to Star Fall and Howland decided to resurrect Arthur Dayne, killing--you guessed it--Ashara Dayne. Howland threw her off a balcony to cover up what a shitty wizard he is. Arthur Dayne then took the black so he could become Qhorrin Halfhand. Also, I forgot to mention that Dayne lost half his hand when Howland killed him before resurrecting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 If Jon was Stillborn, how was he a living baby at winterfell? Also, the only resurrection we see is from a red priest, and howland reed is not a greenseer, much less a red priest. so no, Jon was born alive and stayed that way, at least until the end of Dance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Forlong the Fat said: Or how about this. Arthur Dayne actually killed Ned, because he is Arthur Dayne, isn't he? Howland Reed killed Arthur Dayne and then he resurrected Ned because, as everyone knows, Howland Reed is a wizard. But when he resurrected Ned it killed Jon accidentally, because only death can pay for life. So then he had to resurrect Jon and that killed Lyanna. He tried to resurrect Lyanna but there was no one left to kill so it didn't work. Then they brought Arthur Dayne to Star Fall and Howland decided to resurrect Arthur Dayne, killing--you guessed it--Ashara Dayne. Howland threw her off a balcony to cover up what a shitty wizard he is. Arthur Dayne then took the black so he could become Qhorrin Halfhand. Also, I forgot to mention that Dayne lost half his hand when Howland killed him before resurrecting him. I like to imagine Howland Reed killing and resurrecting people on a spree and saying "buggers" every time he kills someone in the same room. You made my day, internet person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forlong the Fat Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 18 hours ago, Rohed said: im sure there are theory's out there but I've lost touch on them all.. So many and very to each degree of insanity ... Anyways I was reading something else and had an "oh shit" moment ... all asuming L+R = J ... And only death can pay for life. It would explain a lot about the promise Ned had to keep. The emotional state of a mother just given birth would choose to save the baby over themselves... We know HR did something that haunts Ned. Could we not assume he was able to give the baby life in place of hers? The promise being to take care of the baby/keep it alive. Not nessisarly to keep him a secret but that was an unfortunate nessesity. just wanted to write it down ... May have been discussed to death Already. Can you explain how it "would explain a lot about the promise" that Jon was stillborn and Lyanna died as a result? It seems to me you're suggesting that only if Lyanna died as a result of arcane blood magic would she reasonably be expected to ask someone to "take care of the baby/keep it alive." Which would suggest that if Lyanna died for some other reason she would not want anyone to "take care of the baby/keep it alive." And, for that matter, what sort of promise is "take care of the baby/keep it alive"? Are we to expect that, absent such a promise, Ned was likely to leave the baby on the side of a road or to feed it to Ramsey's dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I wish he was and had remained so. The series would have been much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Targaryen Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 On 5/4/2016 at 11:06 AM, Jon's Queen Consort said: I see my mistake! I know it's a weird point to make and really random but I live this and any other diplomacy I see here. As for the post I can't believe I actually clicked on it, it was exactly what I thought it was going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 14 hours ago, Trogdor Targaryen said: but I live this and any other diplomacy I see here Wut ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Targaryen Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 56 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Wut ? Live was speed to be love. I love seeing diplomacy on this site. Autocorrect Hates me and when I just get off work I'm to tired to remember to check over it myself. Most people will argue forever to avoid admitting their own mistakes and I don't believe none of them realize. Even worse is those whose opinions are so strong that they have to trash talk anyone who disagrees like that will change their opinion. Again this topic seems way too out of nowhere. When I saw still born in the title I thought there would be some inclusion of Ashara Dayne, so that's a surprise. This inspired another topic for me though. See ya there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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