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Possible marriage


Sekara

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3 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

Is this what it's all about? Maise isn't pretty therefore Arya can't end up with the main male hero? 

It is apparent to me that not only you did not read my post, but you also have not read what other posters have written. Only a God knows how you reached the conclusion that I was talking about Maisie Williams' attractiveness. So, to make it clear, as others pointed out, Maisie looks younger than her age, this is why I find her casting choice unfortunate, if Arya ends up to be Jon's love interest. Sorry, if I sound harsh, but I took personal offence from what you wrote and how you distorted what I wrote. I expect you to apologize to me, other posters and Maisie Williams.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, WolfClaw said:

It is apparent to me that not only you did not read my post, but you also have not read what other posters have written. Only a God knows how you reached the conclusion that I was talking about Maisie Williams' attractiveness. So, to make it clear, as others pointed out, Maisie looks younger than her age, this is why I find her casting choice unfortunate, if Arya ends up to be Jon's love interest. Sorry, if I sound harsh, but I took personal offence from what you wrote and how you distorted what I wrote. I expect you to apologize to me, other posters and Maisie Williams.

I'm not sure how Maisie Williams appears too young to be in a relationship with Kit Harrington. The actress for Myrcella was 16 years old last season. She was in a relationship with Trystane Martell and even had a snogging scene. Arya is 19 years old. That's why I inferred that your statement about Maisie Williams being an unfortunate casting choice to be about her looks rather than her apparent age.

Perhaps you're the person who should be apologizing for saying that she would be an "unfortunate casting choice" if the character she portrays becomes involved in a relationship with an older male actor. The implication of your statement is that she's not suited for romance scenes and that it would have been better if a different actress was hired.

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43 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

But, if I had to pick someone, I'd also bet my money on Arya. It's clear to me that any love interest for Jon (except Val; I think they'll have a brief romance in WOW. It's a shame the decided to kill Karsi, the wildling leader of Hardhome. She was cool, she could have been my Val) will be part of his family: either his "cousin" Arya or his aunt Daenerys. There's really no point in denying it. It'll be an incestous relationship or nothing at all.

I still think they'll go for Jaime/Brienne on the Show. We know from the trailer that Pod is at the Riverun siege, and the description of 6x05 (or maybe 6x04, I don't remember) mentions Sansa sending Brienne off to a new mission; this is clearly Arya. So, considering the spoilers we know, it's quite possible that Jaime and Brienne have a meeting this season.

Now, it's interesting the fact that they decided to mention and focus on Arya's relationship with Sandor this last episode while Brienne "chooses" not to mention his name to Sansa. It's interesting because the more I think about it, the more I think D&D have switched important parts of Arya's arc with Sansa's. And I don't really know why, but we know for a fact that they chose to make the Sansa/fArya change back in 2012, so the ramifications for it must have been considered for a long time now... I have to reflect on that.

I think the only likely endgame relationships for Jon, assuming he lives long enough, are incestuous ones (Arya, Sansa, and Dany) so "Ewwwww, incest!" doesn't leave Jon with many options, assuming Jon/Val won't be endgame (and all indications are that it won't). Of course, nothing says Jon has to end up with someone.

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3 hours ago, Ingelheim said:

I really think it's pointless to discuss the possibilities and arguments for Jon/Sansa on the books. It's pointless because it will never happen, period. There's no chance for it.

Now, as we have seen already, the show and books are diverging more and more with every new Season. One has to wonder if the Sansa/fArya replacement might have repercussions on Jon's storyline.

But, as I've said before, I just hope Jon remains single. I wouldn't like to see him with either Arya or Sansa, or Dany for that matter

I could see Jon ending up single. But I hope that is not the case, as the story goes on he dreams of a home, a wife and children. Nothing ever works out perfectly, but the Nights Watch will not exist anymore so there really isn't any reason for him to remain single. In fact it might almost become unlikely that he would remain single. I am contradicting myself, but it could really go either way, or he will just end up dead. 

I ve always thought that the perfect ending for someone like Jon would be to marry a Val type, and perhaps take over the Dreadfort. Something like that would be have been perfect. But this story will have a bittersweet ending, so I dont see that happening.

Most of the romances that people are heavily invested in from the books, seem really unappealing to me personally. The worst one for me is properly Sansa and Sandor. I see the Sandor and Sansa pairing as similar to the Dany and Daario paring. They are both young teenage girls, infatuated with dangerous bad boy types and in Sansa's case there is an added damaged persona element. These men are not good relationship material. I certainly can't see them as endgame pairings, they are nothing but teenage infatuations. 

Of course there are some clues in books that they are romantically linked, but many different things are said in the books. Ned also told Sansa for example that he would find her a high lord who is brave, gentle and strong. Perhaps that could be foreshadowing for her future, we really don't know. 

In the books the connection between Jon and Arya are continuously dawn upon. The biggest reason to support Jon and Arya apart form book clues is the original outline. But even with the outline I would not completely remove Sansa or Dany from the potential list of marriage partners. As I ve said above we also see that Ned telling Sansa that he would find her someone who is gentle, brave and strong. We also have Dany dreaming about a young lover, who could be Jon. The story has changed from the outline, but it is difficult to say how much it changed. 

 

The show is going into some interesting directions. I have always had the feeling that the character paths for the main character would still remain very similar to the books. But they dont have much time, so perhaps they could go into some other directions even for the main characters. I cant ever see them going for a Sansa/ Sandor pairing in the show, it seems like they are more interested in Arya's relationship with the Hound at the moment. 

From a show perspective, it is very difficult to look past a Dany and Jon pairing. They are on opposite sides of the world but they usually have parallel story arcs. But I think Sansa could perhaps now become a very serious consideration. It is also interesting to note that Sophie Turner has had an upgrade in the credits, since last year it seems like her role has become more important. 

Sansa and Jon will definitely meet in the next episode. I think at the moment Jon feels that all of his efforts has been very worthless, he does not have much at the moment. When Sansa turns up at the Wall it will give him a small part of his family back, with a family member by his side he might feel that there are things worth fighting for again. Sansa has been through a lot as well, it will be the first time in years that she will meet Jon, who she never got along with but who is somewhat similar to Ned. This could all go into an interesting direction, so we'll see. Of course I see Sansa arriving at the Wall, and someone goes to tell Jon that his sister has arrived. He will storm out to meet her thinking it is Arya. 

At the same time I think we should never forget that this a feudal society, people dont fall in love and get married. Marriages are for alliances. Anyone within the story could fall in love, but that does not mean anything. I could see a few political marriages at the end of the day, and all of these matches might not be happy or ideal couples. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Boudica said:

I could see Jon ending up single. But I hope that is not the case, as the story goes on he dreams of a home, a wife and children. Nothing ever works out perfectly, but the Nights Watch will not exist anymore so there really isn't any reason for him to remain single. In fact it might almost become unlikely that he would remain single. I am contradicting myself, but it could really go either way, or he will just end up dead. 

I ve always thought that the perfect ending for someone like Jon would be to marry a Val type, and perhaps take over the Dreadfort. Something like that would be have been perfect. But this story will have a bittersweet ending, so I dont see that happening.

Most of the romances that people are heavily invested in from the books, seem really unappealing to me personally. The worst one for me is properly Sansa and Sandor. I see the Sandor and Sansa pairing as similar to the Dany and Daario paring. They are both young teenage girls, infatuated with dangerous bad boy types and in Sansa's case there is an added damaged persona element. These men are not good relationship material. I certainly can't see them as endgame pairings, they are nothing but teenage infatuations. 

Of course there are some clues in books that they are romantically linked, but many different things are said in the books. Ned also told Sansa for example that he would find her a high lord who is brave, gentle and strong. Perhaps that could be foreshadowing for her future, we really don't know. 

In the books the connection between Jon and Arya are continuously dawn upon. The biggest reason to support Jon and Arya apart for book clues is the original outline. But even with the outline I would not completely remove Sansa or Dany from the potential list of marriage partners. As I ve said above we also see that Ned telling Sansa that he would find her someone who is gentle, brave and strong. We also have Dany dreaming about a young lover, who could be Jon. The story has changed from the outline, but it is difficult to say how much it changed. 

 

The show is going into some interesting directions. I have always had the feeling that the character paths for the main character would still remain very similar to the books. But they dont have much time, so perhaps they could go into some other directions even for the main characters. I cant ever see them going for a Sansa/ Sandor pairing in the show, it seems like they more interested in Arya's relationship with the Hound at the moment. 

From a show perspective, it is very difficult to look past a Dany and Jon pairing. They are on opposite sides of the world but they usually have parallel story arcs. But I think Sansa could perhaps now become a very serious consideration. It is also interesting to note that Sophie Turner has had an upgrade in the credits, since last year it seems like her role has become more important. 

Sansa and Jon will definitely meet in the next episode. I think at the moment Jon feels that all of his efforts has been very worthless, he does not have much at the moment. When Sansa turns up at the Wall it will give him a small part of his family back, with a family member by his side he might feel that there are things worth fighting for again. Sansa has been through a lot as well, it will be the first time in years that she will meet Jon, who she never got along with but who is somewhat similar to Ned. This could all go into an interesting direction, so we'll see. Of course I see Sansa arriving at the Wall, and someone goes to tell Jon that his sister has arrived. He will storm out to meet her thinking it is Arya. 

At the same time I think we should never forget that this a feudal society, people dont fall in love and get married. Marriages are for alliances. Anyone within the story could fall in love, but that does not mean anything. I could see a few political marriages at the end of the day, and all of these matches might not be happy or ideal couples. 

 

I agree with many of your points. As I said, everything is possible and the story could go anywhere, so we must keep an open mind about all possibilities.

 

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41 minutes ago, Boudica said:

Anyone within the story could fall in love, but that does not mean anything.

Tell that to Rhaegar and Lyanna.

About Maisie being young-looking: then at least her appearance has something in common with her character's age. We know Maisie's real age so we wouldn't be uncomfortable with Kit with a child (and Sophie isn't that much older than her, she only looks the part), and in-universe Jon isn't pushing thirty. And as many have pointed out, we should brace ourselves for incoming incest, so better not to be too sensitive. Oh, and

Spoiler

the WoW chapter showed us Arya making use of her honey trap at the age of eleven, so seriously.

If this pairing ever comes to fruition, Maisie's looks are exactly the least of it's problems.

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Was there back in season ?5 at least one poster unorthodox enough to ship Jon and Bran because they were about to reunite? Well, probably not, despite the commonly accepted opinion, this forum does not contain every possible pairing. What I wanted to say with this extreme example is that the reunion does not automatically suggest a romantic relationship. It doesn't even mean that Jon and Sansa won't pat ways again. It's too soon for things to be good for the "good guys".

One thing to notice about show Sansa is that her arc was changed a lot, even depending on what exactly happens in the Vale this puts her into category with Jaime, Brienne, Mance, Stannis, Tommen. On the other hand even with rearrangement of the events the "original big 5" (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Arya) seems to follow their book stories much more closely.  

Strange as it might seem in this season for the first time since 1st season I see a connection between Jon and Arya. Arya was always connected to the death and now Jon is too, she is actually the only one who comes close to Jon's recent experience of nothingness.  

But of course it remains as it was, anything is possible, I simply don't trust the show.

 

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8 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

About Maisie being young-looking: then at least her appearance has something in common with her character's age. 

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IMO she looks much older since season 5, I would have guessed her to be 16 or older if I didn't know her real age. She looks older that the girl playing Myrcella.

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3 hours ago, Boudica said:

Of course I see Sansa arriving at the Wall, and someone goes to tell Jon that his sister has arrived. He will storm out to meet her thinking it is Arya. 

Ha, this is what I hope will happen. Maybe he'll even say "Arya?" It would be the first time he has mentioned her since season one.

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Doesn't show Jon think that Arya is dead or most probably dead? He wouldn't really expect her there. But if he meets with Brienne, she may told him about Arya and prompt him into some reaction. Of course, if she doesn't forget and say she met the Hound with a girl.
 

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3 hours ago, Tianzi said:

Tell that to Rhaegar and Lyanna.

About Maisie being young-looking: then at least her appearance has something in common with her character's age. We know Maisie's real age so we wouldn't be uncomfortable with Kit with a child (and Sophie isn't that much older than her, she only looks the part), and in-universe Jon isn't pushing thirty. And as many have pointed out, we should brace ourselves for incoming incest, so better not to be too sensitive. Oh, and

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the WoW chapter showed us Arya making use of her honey trap at the age of eleven, so seriously.

If this pairing ever comes to fruition, Maisie's looks are exactly the least of it's problems.

The Rhaegar and Lyanna situation points exactly to how problematic it can be to fall in love, and to act upon those feeling within this world. Every love match in this series had ended up in death. The most ideal relationship is between Ned and Catelyn. It was an arranged marriage, but they built up some respect and care for each other over the years. 

That is really the best you can hope for this world. It is very likely that the characters will end up in arranged marriages at the end of the series. It does not have to be a bad thing, it could be built into something good or at the other end of the scale you could end up like Robert and Cercei. 

That is also why all of the characters could easily end up in incestual type of marriges, to create good alliances it often helps to marry someone who is already part of your family. Of course marriage to your cousin or even your aunt or your uncle, was allowed in medieval times. 

 

25 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Ha, this is what I hope will happen. Maybe he'll even say "Arya?" It would be the first time he has mentioned her since season one.

Yes that is exactly how I envision it! :)

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4 minutes ago, Boudica said:

The Rhaegar and Lyanna situation points exactly to how problematic it can be to fall in love, and to act upon those feeling within this world. Every love match in this series had ended up in death.

Well, Ned and Cat also ended in death and so did one half of Robert-Cersei, while both Cersei and Jaime are still alive.

I agree that love is mostly destructive in this world, but it is in no way ineffectual.

6 minutes ago, Boudica said:

That is also why all of the characters could easily end up in incestual type of marriges, to create good alliances it often helps to marry someone who is already part of your family. Of course marriage to your cousin or even your aunt or your uncle, was allowed in medieval times.

Incest in GoT tends to be even more destructive than love and while marrying in the family can strengthen the ties, 'creating' alliances actually comes from getting out of the incestous comfort zone and reaching out to another House. (re: the Tyrells)

 
 

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19 hours ago, Ice Turtle said:

One thing to notice about show Sansa is that her arc was changed a lot, even depending on what exactly happens in the Vale this puts her into category with Jaime, Brienne, Mance, Stannis, Tommen. On the other hand even with rearrangement of the events the "original big 5" (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Arya) seems to follow their book stories much more closely.

Different mediums can do things more quickly than others.

When you can read the inner thoughts of both parties, a convincing endgame relationship could be conveyed in less than a hundred pages of a novel. Given the expected size of GRRM's last two books that's maybe 5% of the total page count.

By contrast, a typical romance movie generally takes at least couple of hours of screen time to convey while even top billed characters in Game of Thrones get barely an hour of screen time each season and we've got barely two seasons (20 episodes) left at this point in the story.

To fit a reasonable endgame romance into the show that will be satisfying to general audiences, its going to need to start this season unless the intention is for said romance to completely take over the show.

The books can keep Sansa in the Vale throughout Winds of Winter and still have plenty of time for her to reunite with and form a relationship with Jon in A Dream of Spring without crowding the rest of the story. It could probably be done in two to three chapters and feel perfectly earned because of the medium.

If they did the same with Sansa on the show we'd not get a reunion until there were barely ten episodes left and a ton of other really important plots to resolve. Arya and Dany would have similar problems since Arya won't even make it out of the Riverlands this season and Dany won't reach Westeros until the start of next season at the earliest.

But show Sansa will be reuniting with Jon this very next episode. They will be able to interact and build a (non-romantic) rapport with each other now while the story is less intense so that when it does flip towards romance it won't have to take over the story at a point when the story will be much nearer to its actual climax.

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1 hour ago, Myself656 said:

Different mediums can do things more quickly than others.

When you can read the inner thoughts of both parties, a convincing endgame relationship could be conveyed in less than a hundred pages of a novel. Given the expected size of GRRM's last two books that's maybe 5% of the total page count.

By contrast, a typical romance movie generally takes at least couple of hours of screen time to convey while even top billed characters in Game of Thrones get barely an hour of screen time each season and we've got barely two seasons (20 episodes) left at this point in the story.

To fit a reasonable endgame romance into the show that will be satisfying to general audiences, its going to need to start this season unless the intention is for said romance to completely take over the show.

The books can keep Sansa in the Vale throughout Winds of Winter and still have plenty of time for her to reunite with and form a relationship with Jon in A Dream of Spring without crowding the rest of the story. It could probably be done in two to three chapters and feel perfectly earned because of the medium.

If they did the same with Sansa on the show we'd not get a reunion until there were barely ten episodes left and a ton of other really important plots to resolve. Arya and Dany would have similar problems since Arya won't even make it out of the Riverlands this season and Dany won't reach Westeros until the start of next season at the earliest.

But show Sansa will be reuniting with Jon this very next episode. They will be able to interact and build a (non-romantic) rapport with each other now while the story is less intense so that when it does flip towards romance it won't have to take over the story at a point when the story will be much nearer to its actual climax.

I agree with that. That's the most important thing.

And about the ages...I don't think this is a problem.

Arya is not less than 15/16 now

 

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On 5/11/2016 at 5:23 AM, Joan Jett said:

 

It certainly does exist. According to Maisie in a recent interview, the thought of seeing Jon again has been the only thing keeping her going. Obviously the showrunners must have told her this because we know she doesn't read the books.

Sansa's hero is SANDOR. Not Jon. She hardly even thinks of Jon in the books, she forgets he even exists sometimes.  

How the fuck is Sandor's cloak a connection to Jon?? That's one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen on this site. It's his cloak. I guess you think the kiss Sansa imagines with Sandor is a connection to Jon too? 

The Slynt connection was not intended by the author. It's confirmed that Jon was originally going to hang Slynt and a fan told GRRM at a con that it would be better to cut off his head. 

Also Jon does not have a thing for redheads. That's a lazy misconception. He has a thing for independent and wild women. Which isn't really Sansa. In fact Sansa is the polar opposite of Jon's type.

And have you actually read the series? If GRRM is going to do an incestuous couple, he's not going to make it "less squicky" in any way. That's not his style and it doesn't fit the pattern that all incestuous couples so far have followed.

OK. Let me get this straight. In the books Arya has been longing to see Jon again since the very beginning, wishing he was there to quell her loneliness, wishing he was there to muss her hair (she says she's like it "better than anything"), wanting to see him even more than her own home. In each book. Always expressing desire to go to the wall and see him again. Repeatedly. 

Yet, Sansa thinks it would be "sweet to see him" once and all of the sudden it's foreshadowing that they will fall in love? Despite the fact that right before its established by Sansa that she "hadn't thought about Jon in ages?" Get a grip. Nothing is going to happen between them. The context of her thinking of Jon makes it worse. He doesn't naturally come to her mind because she genuinely misses him. Myranda brings Lord Snow up in conversation and then Sansa connects the dots. 

No, I don't think that the kiss Sansa imagines is a connection to Jon. I explained why I think the cloak moment could be foreshadowing with Jon rather than Sandor. It was the description of the cloak being "stained by blood and fire" that made me think Tarygaryen and I think that Jon would be the best fit if Jon is the Targaryen who is going to end up marrying Sansa. 

I think that Jon has very much shown himself to be the type of hero that Sansa wishes existed and the quote is proof of that to me. It makes no difference to me that a fan made the suggestion to GRRM. It isn't like there's only one reason he could like the suggestion of Slynt having his head chopped off. Maybe he thinks it works well for multiple reasons. 

Lol, are you angry, Joan Jett? I said "less squicky" that doesn't mean squick free. I don't know that a pattern has necessarily been established in the books when it comes to incestuous relationships especially when it comes to the Targaryens. Some Targaryen siblings and cousins seemed genuinely in love, some tolerated each other, some loathed each other, etc. Jaime and Cersei are shown as being sick and destructive, Craster is monstrous, nobody quite knows what was going on in terms of the uncle/niece Starkcest revealed in the world book. 

I think that Arya has the strongest sibling like bond with Jon. I'm not arguing that Arya doesn't think about Jon, of course she does. I just think that it would be the hardest for Jon/Arya to get past their sibling bond. He thinks of her as his little sister. She thinks of him as her favorite brother. With Sansa, I think that the distance is put in place so that it will be easier to see how these two will be able to look past the idea that they're half siblings once it's revealed that they're actually cousins. 

Also, regarding my comment about redheads--I admitted that it was superficial. It's not like appearance is the only reason I think that Jon and Sansa work well as a pairing.

You have no way of knowing what's going to happen in future books so I don't really understand why you're telling me to get a grip. I think that Jon and Sansa could be an end game pairing and you happen to disagree. 

In terms of the story, I actually think that Jon and Sansa being together satisfies a lot of things that have been set up from the earlier books. I disagree with the assertion that Jon/Sansa makes no sense to the story. In terms of the journeys of each character I feel like the journey each has been on is making them more suitable for the other. I can see the same argument being made for Dany but ultimately lean towards Sansa because of Cersei's prophecy. 

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1 hour ago, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

No, I don't think that the kiss Sansa imagines is a connection to Jon. I explained why I think the cloak moment could be foreshadowing with Jon rather than Sandor. It was the description of the cloak being "stained by blood and fire" that made me think Tarygaryen and I think that Jon would be the best fit if Jon is the Targaryen who is going to end up marrying Sansa. 

I think that Jon has very much shown himself to be the type of hero that Sansa wishes existed and the quote is proof of that to me. It makes no difference to me that a fan made the suggestion to GRRM. It isn't like there's only one reason he could like the suggestion of Slynt having his head chopped off. Maybe he thinks it works well for multiple reasons. 

Lol, are you angry, Joan Jett? I said "less squicky" that doesn't mean squick free. I don't know that a pattern has necessarily been established in the books when it comes to incestuous relationships especially when it comes to the Targaryens. Some Targaryen siblings and cousins seemed genuinely in love, some tolerated each other, some loathed each other, etc. Jaime and Cersei are shown as being sick and destructive, Craster is monstrous, nobody quite knows what was going on in terms of the uncle/niece Starkcest revealed in the world book. 

I think that Arya has the strongest sibling like bond with Jon. I'm not arguing that Arya doesn't think about Jon, of course she does. I just think that it would be the hardest for Jon/Arya to get past their sibling bond. He thinks of her as his little sister. She thinks of him as her favorite brother. With Sansa, I think that the distance is put in place so that it will be easier to see how these two will be able to look past the idea that they're half siblings once it's revealed that they're actually cousins. 

Also, regarding my comment about redheads--I admitted that it was superficial. It's not like appearance is the only reason I think that Jon and Sansa work well as a pairing.

You have no way of knowing what's going to happen in future books so I don't really understand why you're telling me to get a grip. I think that Jon and Sansa could be an end game pairing and you happen to disagree. 

In terms of the story, I actually think that Jon and Sansa being together satisfies a lot of things that have been set up from the earlier books. I disagree with the assertion that Jon/Sansa makes no sense to the story. In terms of the journeys of each character I feel like the journey each has been on is making them more suitable for the other. I can see the same argument being made for Dany but ultimately lean towards Sansa because of Cersei's prophecy. 

You need to read the books again. That's all I can say to you.

And yeah I was kind of mad when I replied to your post. I don't think I've ever seen so much nonsense in one place before. 

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Ok Jon and Sansa will not happen! It's not in their characteristics to do so! I have taken writing classes, screenwriting classes and I have read hundreds of books to know that Jon and Sansa will not be a thing in the books. If for some ungodly reason they go with Jon and Sansa in the show then I will honestly give up the show and just read spoilers and just look up clips on YT. 

I would think on an adaption stand point if Jon and Arya do fall in love in the last two books then that must happen in the show. They can't switch sisters just because Maisie ( who is absolutely brilliant at acting IMO ) doesn't look "age appropriate" to act out a romance with Kit. Hey she said she would want to play Ygritte and Ygritte has a romance with Jon aka Kit. They have good on screen chemistry judging from all the way back in season 1. They only thing I am quite miffed with is that the show hasn't had Jon talk about missing Arya with anyone and I hope they finally have him mentioning her this season. A Jon and Arya reunion is the one Stark reunion i want the most... 

 

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